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OfflinePhred
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Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5659305 - 05/22/06 06:51 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I don't know what he's doing now but he has been embedded in Afghanistan and Iraq.




Roggio has not been embedded in Afghanistan. He hopes to be able to report from Afghanistan, though. There's your oft-demonstrated difficulty with the concept of verb tense rearing its head yet again.



Phred


--------------------

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Phred]
    #5659341 - 05/22/06 07:23 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Mess with the best, die like the rest.................


Airstrike in South Afghanistan Kills 76
By NOOR KHAN, Associated Press Writer
2 hours ago

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - U.S.-led coalition aircraft bombed a rebel stronghold in southern Afghanistan, killing about 60 suspected Taliban militants and 16 civilians, an Afghan governor said Monday.

The coalition confirmed the strike on the village of Azizi in Kandahar province late Sunday and early Monday and said about 50 militants were killed. U.S. commander Lt. Gen. Karl W. Eikenberry told The Associated Press the military was investigating whether some civilians had also died.

The new deaths brought the toll of militants, Afghan forces and coalition soldiers killed to more than 265 since Wednesday, when a storm of violence broke out in the south _ among the deadliest combat in Afghanistan since the Taliban's ouster in 2001.

Kandahar Gov. Asadullah Khalid said 16 civilians were killed in Monday's attack and 16 were wounded and taken to hospitals in Kandahar city, a former Taliban stronghold.

"These sort of accidents happen during fighting, especially when the Taliban are hiding in homes," he said. "I urge people not to give shelter to the Taliban."

U.S. military spokesman Col. Tom Collins said the coalition forces targeted a Taliban compound and "we're certain we hit the right target."

"It's common that the enemy fights in close to civilians as a means to protect its own forces," he added.

Many of the wounded sought treatment at Kandahar city's Mirwaise Hospital. One man with blood smeared over his clothes and turban said insurgents had been hiding in an Islamic religious school, or madrassa, in the village after fierce fighting in recent days.

"Helicopters bombed the madrassa and some of the Taliban ran from there and into people's homes. Then those homes were bombed," said Haji Ikhlaf, 40. "I saw 35 to 40 dead Taliban and around 50 dead or wounded civilians."

Another survivor from the village, Zurmina Bibi, who was cradling her wounded 8-month-old baby, said about 10 people were killed in her home, including three or four children.

"There were dead people everywhere," she said, crying.

A doctor, Mohammed Khan, said he had treated 10 people from the village. Moments later, a pickup vehicle pulled up at the hospital with five men lying wounded in the back.

It was not possible for reporters to reach Azizi village because police and foreign troops had blocked off the area, which is about 30 miles southwest of Kandahar.

The village is also known by the name Hajiyan. It is made up of about 30-35 large mud-brick compounds, each housing an extended family with up to 50 members. The village has a mosque and one madrassa, where boys study. It has no electricity and relies on wells for water.

The Taliban resurgence, despite the presence of more than 30,000 foreign troops, including 23,000 from the United States in Afghanistan, has halted postwar reconstruction work in many areas and raised fears for this country's future.

Meanwhile in other violence, Mohammed Ali Jalali, the former governor of eastern Paktika province, was found dead after being kidnapped Sunday, local police chief Abdul Rehman Surjung said. Jalali was a respected tribal elder and a supporter of President Hamid Karzai.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Phred]
    #5659948 - 05/22/06 12:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Roggio has not been embedded in Afghanistan. He hopes to be able to report from Afghanistan, though. There's your oft-demonstrated difficulty with the concept of verb tense rearing its head yet again.

Wrong again. You just never get any better do you.

Posted May 9th 2006:

We'll be speaking tonight with a good friend of the show Bill Roggio, who departs next week for Afghanistan. He'll be spending three weeks in country embedded with Canadian troops in Kandahar Province.


http://www.qr77.com/station/blog_the_world_tonight.cfm?bid=372

(I believe this is known as being owned phrederick  :smirk:)

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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5659966 - 05/22/06 12:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Mess with the best, die like the rest.................

I don't think attacking men armed with rifles from a jet aircraft really defines you as the "best" does it? You ain't gonna win any bravery medals for that lets face it.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5659990 - 05/22/06 12:34 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
I don't know what he's doing now but he has been embedded in Afghanistan and Iraq.




Quote:


We'll be speaking tonight with a good friend of the show Bill Roggio, who departs next week for Afghanistan. He'll be spending three weeks in country embedded with Canadian troops in Kandahar Province.




Has been and will be are two entirely different things. :lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinesatori85
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5659997 - 05/22/06 12:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Its not that it was repelled. Its that some had said we had already won the war but in reality its no where near over. The truth is it could go on for decades.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5660006 - 05/22/06 12:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Has been and will be are two entirely different things

Read it again. Pay particular attention to the date it was written. He's been embedded in Afghanistan since May 18.

Do you get it now?

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5660043 - 05/22/06 12:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
Mess with the best, die like the rest.................

I don't think attacking men armed with rifles from a jet aircraft really defines you as the "best" does it? You ain't gonna win any bravery medals for that lets face it.





You have a problem with air superiority? Whats next gun powder? Wouldn't they be braver if the all got in a staggered echelon column, and fixed bayonets?

Why take a enemy down with fire and maneuver with higher risk of causalities, when you can eliminate the force with a low risk? You see, as a commanding officer, they do factor in loss of life, into their combat equations.

Military science is no longer in the stone age.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5660064 - 05/22/06 12:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

You have a problem with air superiority?

No, I have a problem with you claiming someone is the "best" if they can kill people on the ground from a jet aircraft. You don't have to be the "best" to do that.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5660073 - 05/22/06 01:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
Do you get it now?




Nope. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,633
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5660106 - 05/22/06 01:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
You have a problem with air superiority?

No, I have a problem with you claiming someone is the "best" if they can kill people on the ground from a jet aircraft. You don't have to be the "best" to do that.







The American military is the best. I challenge you to show me some evidence of a military that is better trained and equipped.


There are many more operations that go into an air strike, then the launching of a missile. Keep in mind the reconnaissance that had to take place before the strike itself, coupled with intelligence. what about the crews maintaining the aircraft? The fuel , the logistics, etc.......


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5660752 - 05/22/06 03:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Alex213 writes:

Quote:

Wrong again. You just never get any better do you.

Posted May 9th 2006:

We'll be speaking tonight with a good friend of the show Bill Roggio, who departs next week for Afghanistan. He'll be spending three weeks in country embedded with Canadian troops in Kandahar Province.


http://www.qr77.com/station/blog_the_world_tonight.cfm?bid=372

(I believe this is known as being owned phrederick )




No, Alex213, it is you -- for the umpteenth time in this forum -- who have been owned, not me. Let me explain to you where you went wrong. Take note of the verb tense of your cut and paste. You really do seem completely incapable of sorting out past and present and future. That announcement describes something scheduled to happen after the announcement was made -- i.e. something which would happen in the future. As it turns out, Roggio was unable to make the departure date mentioned in your cut and paste. As of today, he's still sitting Stateside.

Quote:

Afghanistan, Embed Updates
By Bill Roggio


A quick update on the embed status: I ran into a problem with the travel arrangements and will be headed to Afghanistan late this week if all goes well. I worked hard to leave last weekend but it was not possible. The delay will not effect my time spent in country, I am pushing back the dates to accommodate the delay in travel. Afghanistan has been quite active of late, particularly in the Kandahar region where I will be embedding. I plan on posting daily while in Afghanistan, and have set up podcasts and radio interviews. Please support this embed by donating to the Counterterrorism Foundation. We can use your support in funding this embed as well as planned embeds in the future. And a big thank you to everyone who has contributed and supported this endeavor. We could not do this without your help and I am truly grateful for your generosity.

May 22, 2006 10:50 AM




Link to that announcement is here -- http://counterterrorismblog.org/2006/05/afghanistan_embed_updates.php

I had written that Roggio hopes to be able to report from Afghanistan. That is accurate. He is not in Afghanistan now and was not in Afghanistan when he wrote the commentary I posted earlier in the thread. If he does eventually make it to Afghanistan, though, he still hopes to embed with Canadian troops, so of course (according to you) his reporting will be worthless, since embedded reporters cannot be trusted to report accurately.

Fortunately, the substance of Roggio's message in the snippet I posted earlier in the thread was derived not from his own experience, but was a compilation of reports from other open sources, so is not tainted with the dread "embed derangement syndrome".

If he ever does make it to Afghanistan, you can begin immediately disregarding everything he reports. But it will be a while yet. Have patience.

Hope you've come to enjoy the taste of crow. It would be a shame if you haven't, since you've had to eat so much of it in your time here.


Phred


--------------------

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Phred]
    #5661361 - 05/22/06 07:03 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Take note of the verb tense of your cut and paste. You really do seem completely incapable of sorting out past and present and future. That announcement describes something scheduled to happen after the announcement was made -- i.e. something which would happen in the future. As it turns out, Roggio was unable to make the departure date mentioned in your cut and paste. As of today, he's still sitting Stateside.




:lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5661420 - 05/22/06 07:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

political debate = my source is more correct than yours

what a joke

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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Phred]
    #5662642 - 05/23/06 12:36 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

You really do seem completely incapable of sorting out past and present and future

No, the courierpostonline posted that he'd left on May 18. He himself said he'd be leaving on May 18. That's why I thought he'd been there since May 18. Trying to say I'm at fault for his incompetent travel arrangements is about as weak as I've come to expect from you.

Thursday, May 18, 2006
Bill Roggio, who started a blog two years ago with the goal of providing a balanced perspective on military combat operations, will leave today for Afghanistan.


http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060518/NEWS01/605180367

so is not tainted with the dread "embed derangement syndrome".


It's unlikely he's going to write articles critical of the occupation forces when he's embedding this week. Don't you think?




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InvisibleAlex213
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Posts: 1,839
Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5662666 - 05/23/06 12:43 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The American military is the best. I challenge you to show me some evidence of a military that is better trained and equipped.


To me the "best" is more to do with how they fight rather than how they're equipped and trained. You were better trained and equipped than the peasants in the Vietcong and still couldn't overcome them. To me that implies the Vietcong were tougher soldiers.

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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: faslimy]
    #5662873 - 05/23/06 02:14 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

faslimy said:
political debate = my source is more correct than yours

what a joke




Good point, but to be honest seeing phreddy reduced to making semantic points about the travel arrangements of his favourite embed is probably more amusing than any of his useless political "points".

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5662933 - 05/23/06 03:09 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Alex213 writes:

Quote:

No, the courierpostonline posted that he'd left on May 18.




Don't ever change, Alex213, seriously. What would we do without you?

Even now, you still can't distinguish between verb tenses. This latest cut and paste of yours from the courier post does not say "he'd left" (past tense) on the 18th, it said he "will leave" (future tense) on the 18th. They were wrong in their prediction. He didn't leave on the 18th.

And if it was the courier post's words which lead you to believe he "had been" embedded in Afghanistan, (which would have left a remarkably short time between his departure on the 18th and the filing of his first "embedded" commentary on the 19th, especially considering travel time -- hardly time to arrange to go on even a single embedded patrol), why on earth did you not quote the courier post in your post #5659948? Why did you quote a promo from a Calgary talk radio station instead? Could this have been one of your frantic "two minute Google searches" you profess to disdain?

As for providing amusement --

The rational readers of this thread recognize full well your lame dismissal as a "semantic point" the difference between someone who has been embedded with Canadian troops in Afghanistan with someone who hopes to become embedded with Canadian troops in Afghanistan, and undoubtedly derive great amusement from it. I'm sure your English masters in school didn't teach you that blatant conflation of verb tenses is nothing more than a mere "semantic point".

Quote:

It's unlikely he's going to write articles critical of the occupation forces when he's embedding this week.




LOL! Seriously, Alex213, don't ever change. When shown that Roggio has never been embedded in Afghanistan, you effortlessly move the goalposts in classic Leftie manner -- not only can we not trust any embedded reporter, we can't trust one who might one day become an embedded reporter.

Of course, we can also not trust a reporter who was ever in the military himself at an earlier stage in his life. But we can trust career army generals and diplomats who never leave the Green Zone but issue sweeping statements four days after arriving in country.

Why don't you just admit what everyone here has already recognized -- the seal of approval you bestow to journalistic sources has nothing to do with any factor other than how closely their words agree with your preconceived notions. If they say what you want to hear, they're "experts". If they say what you don't want to hear, they're liars, either because --

-- they used to be soldiers, or
-- they are now embedded with soldiers, or
-- they plan to be embedded with soldiers, or
-- they know nothing about military matters, or
-- they know nothing about the background history of Afghanistan or Iraq or Islam or whatever or
-- their work is published in media you deem to be right wing (even though according to you there are no left-leaning mainstream outlets for them to publish in) or...

...but I think you catch the drift. It's all ad hominem attacks. Because, after all, if a reporter says something you disagree with, why that reporter must be lying, it's just a question of determining why he's lying.




Phred


--------------------

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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Phred]
    #5662963 - 05/23/06 03:39 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

They were wrong in their prediction. He didn't leave on the 18th.


Prediction? Are you denying Roggio said he was going to leave on May 18? The fact that he was too incompetent to do so isn't anyones fault but his own.

Don't ever change, Alex213, seriously. What would we do without you?


Get away with posting even more bullshit than you do?  :smirk:

Incidentally, who are you referring to by "we"? Are you referring to the mouse you keep in your top pocket?

The rational readers of this thread recognize full well your lame dismissal as a "semantic point" the difference between someone who has been embedded with Canadian troops in Afghanistan with someone who hopes to become embedded with Canadian troops in Afghanistan

Then you will be able to list the differences other than semantic between an embedded journalist and one who hopes to be embedded this week.

Please do so.

When shown that Roggio has never been embedded in Afghanistan

But would have been embedded if his travel arrangments had been competent...

not only can we not trust any embedded reporter, we can't trust one who might one day become an embedded reporter.

The difference between an embedded reporter and a reporter who hopes to be embedded later this week being what exactly?

You do understand that an embedded reporter is allowed to report precisely what the people he is embedded with allow him to?

Of course, we can also not trust a reporter who was ever in the military himself at an earlier stage in his life.

If you are desperately trying to claim this is my position then you are, as usual, lying.

but issue sweeping statements four days after arriving in country.


Statements issued in secret. You do understand the difference between a secret report to your superiors and a public pronouncement I take it? Or do you believe there can be no difference between the two?

It's all ad hominem attacks

Don't be stupid. There are obvious and inherent limitations in the reports an embedded journalist can produce. Anyone with even the faintest grasp of journalism understands this. Which is presumably why you do not.

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5663038 - 05/23/06 05:05 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
The American military is the best. I challenge you to show me some evidence of a military that is better trained and equipped.


To me the "best" is more to do with how they fight rather than how they're equipped and trained. You were better trained and equipped than the peasants in the Vietcong and still couldn't overcome them. To me that implies the Vietcong were tougher soldiers.






You are wrong. You only fight as well as you train.

"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war"

As for Nam, Our troops were better trained and better equipped. And without a doubt the hardest swinging dicks there. The Viet Chong were a vicious enemy, however, the men with no previous jungle fighting experience put search and destroy missions out there that swept and cleared allot of territory. As a veteran, and a son of a Vietnam veteran, IT WAS THE POLITIC ANS THAT FUCKED OVER OUR TROOPS BY NOT LETTING THEM TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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