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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
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Taliban launch biggest attack since war
    #5648629 - 05/19/06 12:27 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The storming of Musa Qala was ferocious. Hundreds of Taliban fighters poured incessant fire into the government buildings and police station. The ensuing battle was the longest and fiercest since the end of the war four years ago. As homes and shops were set alight, Qari Mohammed Yousef, a Taliban commander, used his satellite telephone to announce to a news agency that the town in Helmand had fallen to the "forces of Islam".

The Taliban were eventually forced to retreat, but the scale of the offensive was a symbolic declaration of intent as British troops pour into the province for their new mission in Afghanistan.

Sangin district, where yesterday's fighting occurred, is a mountain area close to the point where Helmand, Uruzgan and Kandahar, three of Afghanistan's most lawless provinces, meet. It has been an area of intense Taliban activity for the past year and a half. It is also a region thick with opium poppies this summer as Helmand heads for what is likely to be a record harvest.

The Taliban have kept up a barrage of threats. "We will turn Afghanistan into a river of blood for the British," said one of its commanders, Mohammed Hanif Sherzad, who says that he speaks for Mullah Omar, the former leader of the Taliban who is now believed to be somewhere in Pakistan. "We have beaten them before and we will beat them again."



http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article548102.ece


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5649755 - 05/19/06 11:08 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

From the post : The Taliban were eventually forced to retreat, but the scale of the offensive was a symbolic declaration of intent



How many casualties?
Any territory gained for strategic purposes?
Looks like a hasty ambush, that was quickly repelled.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5650465 - 05/19/06 02:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/05/19/taliban-capture.html

"A suspected senior Taliban leader was captured in a battle earlier this week and is now being held in hospital, an Afghan general said on Friday...........
The prisoner, who has one leg, is believed to be Mullah Dadullah, the Associated Press quoted Afghan Gen. Rehmatullah Raufi as saying.

Dadullah lost a leg during fighting in the 1990s and is the group's commander in eastern and southeastern Afghanistan."

Yep, that worked well.

"Eighteen militants were killed and 35 captured during the battle in the Panjwayi district of Kandahar province."


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5652211 - 05/20/06 02:17 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Looks like a hasty ambush, that was quickly repelled.

Still the longest and fiercest battle for the last 4 years. You'd think after 4 years the Taliban would be losing ground not launching it's biggest attack yet.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5652213 - 05/20/06 02:18 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The prisoner, who has one leg

Catching the ones with two legs is even trickier.. :laugh:


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5652652 - 05/20/06 08:56 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

In my estimation, the Taliban are still very desperate militarily. This ambush, although contained the element of surprise, has no follow through with successive, concise ambushes through the region. You would think that four years would be enough planning time. If they were to hit many geographical areas at the same time, with the same amount of force, now that is something to worry about. The bottom line: they can bearly muster guerrilla war tactics......they are hurting big time


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5652897 - 05/20/06 10:46 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

In my estimation, the Taliban are still very desperate militarily

As desperate as they were back in the days when they were Reagans heroes and fighting the Russians?

The one good thing about this clusterfuck is at least the americans arn't arming them anymore.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5652963 - 05/20/06 11:13 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The Inaccurate Taliban Offensive; Taliban military commander Mullah Dadullah reported captured
By Bill Roggio



Mullah Dadullah may have been captured during recent fighting in Afghanistan.

The news reports of a major Taliban offensive in southeastern Afghanistan are inaccurate, as Coalition offensives and Taliban attacks have been lumped together to give the impression of a coordinated Taliban assault in multiple provinces. A reading of the various reports indicates that while the Taliban has launched a major strike on a police station and government center in Helmand province and a small scale attack on a police patrol in Ghazni, as well as two suicide attacks against U.S. contractors in Herat and an Afghan army base in Ghazni, the fighting in Kandahar was initiated by Afghan and Coalition security forces during planned operations. Over 100 have been reported killed during the fighting, with 87 being Taliban. Well over half of those killed were killed during the Coalition offensives in Kandahar.

There were two separate major engagements in Kandahar province, and both were initiated by the Coalition. Coalition forces conducted a raid and subsequent air strikes against a Taliban safe haven in the village of Azizi. -- http://www.centcom.mil/sites/uscentcom1/Lists/Press%20Releases/DispForm.aspx?ID=3098 -- As many as 27 Taliban are believed to have been killed during the operation. A joint Canadian and Afghan security force conducted a sweep in the Panjwai district of Kandahar -- http://www.centcom.mil/sites/uscentcom1/...Releases%2Easpx -- and killed 18 Taliban and captured 26 in the process. One Canadian officer was killed and three Afghan police were wounded during the operation.

The fighting in Musa Qala in Helmand province is a bonafide major Taliban attack. The Associated Press -- http://home.bellsouth.net/s/editorial.dl...e&rg=blsadstrgt -- reports an "estimated 300-400 militants with assault rifles and machine guns attacked a police and government headquarters" in Musa Qala. The Afghan police provided reinforcements to the beleaguered police station, fought off the Taliban force, reestablished control over the region, and killed 40 Taliban and took thirteen casualties of their own. Two police patrols were ambushed in Ghazni, and resulted in the death of two policemen. There is no evidence the attacks were coordinated. And they certainly weren't coordinated to occur in conjunction with Coalition operations.

It is important to understand how the fighting was initiated, as the current reporting is giving the impression of a coordinated Taliban uprising. This provides the Taliban with a propaganda victory, as their power is perceived as far greater than it actually is, which can negatively influence the government and peoples of the Coalition forces serving in Afghanistan. The narrow passage of the extension of the Canadian mission in Afghanistan (by a 149-145 vote in Parliament) illustrates the fragile nature of the support for the mission in some Western nations.

During the fighting of the past few days, the Coalition may have scored a major victory. The BBC's Alastair Leithead -- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4997548.stm -- reports Mullah Dadullah, the Taliban's most senior commander, has been captured, however the military has yet to confirm this report. The Jamestown Foundation describes Mullah Dadullah as "The Military Mastermind of the Taliban Insurgency" as well as "a member of the 10-man leading council of Taliban insurgents." Dadullah reportedly escaped the U.S. and Northern Alliance onslaught of the Taliban regime in the winter of 2002 and surfaced in South Waziristan, Pakistan, where he raised funds and organized the Taliban insurgency. Dadullah would be a treasure trove of information on the Taliban's operations in both Afghanistan and Pakistan. Qari Naeem, the Taliban commander of Ghazni province, was also killed.

May 19, 2006 11:38 AM





So the Taliban got stomped. This is news? They've been getting stomped for years now. They'll be stomped for years more to come.



Phred


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Phred]
    #5655475 - 05/21/06 06:01 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Isn't Bill Roggio a guy who goes around requesting people send him money so he can "embed" with the occupation armies in Afghanistan and Iraq? Are you sure he isn't just giving us the "embedded" line?

Obviously you arn't going to be invited to be "embedded" unless you write articles the American army approves of.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5655624 - 05/21/06 08:39 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Monday, May 08, 2006
Support Bill Roggio

When somebody asks me for money and I don’t know them very well, my first thoughts are: “This is a crooked SOB.” I am such a cynic that I don’t believe anything until the ink is dried and the check has cleared. With that said, every now and then, I meet somebody makes me think outside of norm. One such feller is Bill Roggio, whom I met at the Milblogging conference.

Roggio is a former Marine who volunteered to go to Iraq as a civilian “blogger.” Much like Michael Yon, Roggio gave Americans uncensored an objective perspective and honest writing. But he didn’t earn a dime. While the N.Y. Times re-published Army press releases, Roggio risked his life by going out on patrols in Tikrit and other parts of Iraq. Meanwhile, all the other journalists received steady combat pay from their respective employers and were bedded up in their nice trailers in the Green Zone. But not Bill.

In fact, his readers paid for his way into Iraq. And now he wants to embed in Afghanistan. But he needs your help. Bill still has that Marine swagger; he’s just not receiving their combat pay. His service to our country is worth however many pennies you can spare.




http://desert-smink.blogspot.com/2006/05/support-bill-roggio.html

Seems to be a tad more "independant" than anybody else. Of course, he is ex-military so is no doubt a lying apologist for the Bush/Rove hegemonic war machine. Just not on their payroll.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5656137 - 05/21/06 12:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Seems to be a tad more "independant" than anybody else

How can you be "independent" if you're embedded? If you write a story the american army doesn't approve of they're either going to get rid of you or simply restrict your access to zero.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5656163 - 05/21/06 12:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You will note Roggio didn't write a "story"... he instead provided links to the BBC, AP, CentCom, etc, giving a far more complete picture than the Independent article did.



Phred


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Phred]
    #5656273 - 05/21/06 01:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Well, the story he's trying to put across is that all the news reports were wrong and that the Taliban isn't as strong as it sounds. So far he's the only person I've heard claiming this.

he instead provided links to the BBC

Not really. The link to the BBC is a different story to the one the Independent reported.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5656306 - 05/21/06 01:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Fucking unbelievable. You are such a goddamn hypocrite.

You tear into Zappa when he posts a news story, and someone follows up with another story that proves the previous one wrong. When your story is challenged, though, you refuse to budge.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Redstorm]
    #5656401 - 05/21/06 01:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Fucking unbelievable. You are such a goddamn hypocrite.


Are you upset? Or do you still think you are talking to your mother?

You tear into Zappa when he posts a news story, and someone follows up with another story that proves the previous one wrong

Let me explain.

Zappas story WAS bullshit.

In this case we've got one ex-marine embedded guy claiming all the news stories by everyone else are inaccurate. Surely you don't automatically take this guys word at face value?

Can you see the difference between the two examples?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5656658 - 05/21/06 02:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

In this case we've got one ex-marine embedded guy claiming all the news stories by everyone else are inaccurate. Surely you don't automatically take this guys word at face value?

Can you see the difference between the two examples?




Roggio never claimed the Independent story was wrong, just that media stories on the recent actions in Afghanistan are incomplete, leaving the impression that the Taliban is somehow making a comeback rather than sounding its death rattle. When the Independent story is added to those by AP, BBC, and others, then fleshed out with CentCom releases which (surprise, surprise) the MSM refuses to pick up on, it's clear that the Taliban is getting its ass kicked.

Roggio himself did no reporting. He wrote no dispatch. All he did was gather together information from various open sources (CentCom, BBC, AP) and put it all in one place, with commentary showing the obvious -- that far from being a blow to the UN forces operating in Afghanistan, the latest clashes were VERY costly to the Taliban.



Phred


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Phred]
    #5657594 - 05/21/06 07:04 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It wasn't my story, it was a major 'nuck news agency, which I checked out before I posted. They burned me and a lot of other people as well. And Alex didn't bust me too bad over it, which I appreciate. And Roggio isn't embedded, which was the point of my link, which is that he doesn't seem to be in anybody's pocket except his own. And the readers who fund him.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Phred]
    #5658926 - 05/22/06 12:48 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Roggio never claimed the Independent story was wrong just that media stories on the recent actions in Afghanistan are incomplete

No, he said they were inaccurate.

All he did was gather together information from various open sources (CentCom, BBC, AP) and put it all in one place, with commentary showing the obvious

It's funny how no other news source agrees with his slant tho.

it's clear that the Taliban is getting its ass kicked

If that was the case the UK wouldn't have had to send 8000 troops to the Helmand province last month.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5658991 - 05/22/06 01:20 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

And Roggio isn't embedded

I don't know what he's doing now but he has been embedded in Afghanistan and Iraq.



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OfflinePhred
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5659303 - 05/22/06 06:49 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Actually, Roggio never even mentions the Independent article. He may have been referring to the article in the Washington Times, which was inaccurate.

As for your finding it funny that "no other news source" agrees with his "slant", it is indeed suspicious that each MSM report taken in isolation manages to give the very strong impression -- through omission of key facts germane to the story being covered -- that these developments somehow constitute a victory for the Taliban rather than an ass-kicking. Suspicious, but not uncommon. The MSM has been doing this kind of thing for years now.

Now that the UK has sent 8,000 troops to Helmand province, the Taliban will get their ass kicked even more thoroughly.



Phred


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5659305 - 05/22/06 06:51 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I don't know what he's doing now but he has been embedded in Afghanistan and Iraq.




Roggio has not been embedded in Afghanistan. He hopes to be able to report from Afghanistan, though. There's your oft-demonstrated difficulty with the concept of verb tense rearing its head yet again.



Phred


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Phred]
    #5659341 - 05/22/06 07:23 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Mess with the best, die like the rest.................


Airstrike in South Afghanistan Kills 76
By NOOR KHAN, Associated Press Writer
2 hours ago

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - U.S.-led coalition aircraft bombed a rebel stronghold in southern Afghanistan, killing about 60 suspected Taliban militants and 16 civilians, an Afghan governor said Monday.

The coalition confirmed the strike on the village of Azizi in Kandahar province late Sunday and early Monday and said about 50 militants were killed. U.S. commander Lt. Gen. Karl W. Eikenberry told The Associated Press the military was investigating whether some civilians had also died.

The new deaths brought the toll of militants, Afghan forces and coalition soldiers killed to more than 265 since Wednesday, when a storm of violence broke out in the south _ among the deadliest combat in Afghanistan since the Taliban's ouster in 2001.

Kandahar Gov. Asadullah Khalid said 16 civilians were killed in Monday's attack and 16 were wounded and taken to hospitals in Kandahar city, a former Taliban stronghold.

"These sort of accidents happen during fighting, especially when the Taliban are hiding in homes," he said. "I urge people not to give shelter to the Taliban."

U.S. military spokesman Col. Tom Collins said the coalition forces targeted a Taliban compound and "we're certain we hit the right target."

"It's common that the enemy fights in close to civilians as a means to protect its own forces," he added.

Many of the wounded sought treatment at Kandahar city's Mirwaise Hospital. One man with blood smeared over his clothes and turban said insurgents had been hiding in an Islamic religious school, or madrassa, in the village after fierce fighting in recent days.

"Helicopters bombed the madrassa and some of the Taliban ran from there and into people's homes. Then those homes were bombed," said Haji Ikhlaf, 40. "I saw 35 to 40 dead Taliban and around 50 dead or wounded civilians."

Another survivor from the village, Zurmina Bibi, who was cradling her wounded 8-month-old baby, said about 10 people were killed in her home, including three or four children.

"There were dead people everywhere," she said, crying.

A doctor, Mohammed Khan, said he had treated 10 people from the village. Moments later, a pickup vehicle pulled up at the hospital with five men lying wounded in the back.

It was not possible for reporters to reach Azizi village because police and foreign troops had blocked off the area, which is about 30 miles southwest of Kandahar.

The village is also known by the name Hajiyan. It is made up of about 30-35 large mud-brick compounds, each housing an extended family with up to 50 members. The village has a mosque and one madrassa, where boys study. It has no electricity and relies on wells for water.

The Taliban resurgence, despite the presence of more than 30,000 foreign troops, including 23,000 from the United States in Afghanistan, has halted postwar reconstruction work in many areas and raised fears for this country's future.

Meanwhile in other violence, Mohammed Ali Jalali, the former governor of eastern Paktika province, was found dead after being kidnapped Sunday, local police chief Abdul Rehman Surjung said. Jalali was a respected tribal elder and a supporter of President Hamid Karzai.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Phred]
    #5659948 - 05/22/06 12:23 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Roggio has not been embedded in Afghanistan. He hopes to be able to report from Afghanistan, though. There's your oft-demonstrated difficulty with the concept of verb tense rearing its head yet again.

Wrong again. You just never get any better do you.

Posted May 9th 2006:

We'll be speaking tonight with a good friend of the show Bill Roggio, who departs next week for Afghanistan. He'll be spending three weeks in country embedded with Canadian troops in Kandahar Province.


http://www.qr77.com/station/blog_the_world_tonight.cfm?bid=372

(I believe this is known as being owned phrederick  :smirk:)


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5659966 - 05/22/06 12:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Mess with the best, die like the rest.................

I don't think attacking men armed with rifles from a jet aircraft really defines you as the "best" does it? You ain't gonna win any bravery medals for that lets face it.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5659990 - 05/22/06 12:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
I don't know what he's doing now but he has been embedded in Afghanistan and Iraq.




Quote:


We'll be speaking tonight with a good friend of the show Bill Roggio, who departs next week for Afghanistan. He'll be spending three weeks in country embedded with Canadian troops in Kandahar Province.




Has been and will be are two entirely different things. :lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinesatori85
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5659997 - 05/22/06 12:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Its not that it was repelled. Its that some had said we had already won the war but in reality its no where near over. The truth is it could go on for decades.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5660006 - 05/22/06 12:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Has been and will be are two entirely different things

Read it again. Pay particular attention to the date it was written. He's been embedded in Afghanistan since May 18.

Do you get it now?


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5660043 - 05/22/06 12:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
Mess with the best, die like the rest.................

I don't think attacking men armed with rifles from a jet aircraft really defines you as the "best" does it? You ain't gonna win any bravery medals for that lets face it.





You have a problem with air superiority? Whats next gun powder? Wouldn't they be braver if the all got in a staggered echelon column, and fixed bayonets?

Why take a enemy down with fire and maneuver with higher risk of causalities, when you can eliminate the force with a low risk? You see, as a commanding officer, they do factor in loss of life, into their combat equations.

Military science is no longer in the stone age.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5660064 - 05/22/06 12:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You have a problem with air superiority?

No, I have a problem with you claiming someone is the "best" if they can kill people on the ground from a jet aircraft. You don't have to be the "best" to do that.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5660073 - 05/22/06 01:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
Do you get it now?




Nope. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5660106 - 05/22/06 01:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
You have a problem with air superiority?

No, I have a problem with you claiming someone is the "best" if they can kill people on the ground from a jet aircraft. You don't have to be the "best" to do that.







The American military is the best. I challenge you to show me some evidence of a military that is better trained and equipped.


There are many more operations that go into an air strike, then the launching of a missile. Keep in mind the reconnaissance that had to take place before the strike itself, coupled with intelligence. what about the crews maintaining the aircraft? The fuel , the logistics, etc.......


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5660752 - 05/22/06 03:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Alex213 writes:

Quote:

Wrong again. You just never get any better do you.

Posted May 9th 2006:

We'll be speaking tonight with a good friend of the show Bill Roggio, who departs next week for Afghanistan. He'll be spending three weeks in country embedded with Canadian troops in Kandahar Province.


http://www.qr77.com/station/blog_the_world_tonight.cfm?bid=372

(I believe this is known as being owned phrederick )




No, Alex213, it is you -- for the umpteenth time in this forum -- who have been owned, not me. Let me explain to you where you went wrong. Take note of the verb tense of your cut and paste. You really do seem completely incapable of sorting out past and present and future. That announcement describes something scheduled to happen after the announcement was made -- i.e. something which would happen in the future. As it turns out, Roggio was unable to make the departure date mentioned in your cut and paste. As of today, he's still sitting Stateside.

Quote:

Afghanistan, Embed Updates
By Bill Roggio


A quick update on the embed status: I ran into a problem with the travel arrangements and will be headed to Afghanistan late this week if all goes well. I worked hard to leave last weekend but it was not possible. The delay will not effect my time spent in country, I am pushing back the dates to accommodate the delay in travel. Afghanistan has been quite active of late, particularly in the Kandahar region where I will be embedding. I plan on posting daily while in Afghanistan, and have set up podcasts and radio interviews. Please support this embed by donating to the Counterterrorism Foundation. We can use your support in funding this embed as well as planned embeds in the future. And a big thank you to everyone who has contributed and supported this endeavor. We could not do this without your help and I am truly grateful for your generosity.

May 22, 2006 10:50 AM




Link to that announcement is here -- http://counterterrorismblog.org/2006/05/afghanistan_embed_updates.php

I had written that Roggio hopes to be able to report from Afghanistan. That is accurate. He is not in Afghanistan now and was not in Afghanistan when he wrote the commentary I posted earlier in the thread. If he does eventually make it to Afghanistan, though, he still hopes to embed with Canadian troops, so of course (according to you) his reporting will be worthless, since embedded reporters cannot be trusted to report accurately.

Fortunately, the substance of Roggio's message in the snippet I posted earlier in the thread was derived not from his own experience, but was a compilation of reports from other open sources, so is not tainted with the dread "embed derangement syndrome".

If he ever does make it to Afghanistan, you can begin immediately disregarding everything he reports. But it will be a while yet. Have patience.

Hope you've come to enjoy the taste of crow. It would be a shame if you haven't, since you've had to eat so much of it in your time here.


Phred


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Phred]
    #5661361 - 05/22/06 07:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Take note of the verb tense of your cut and paste. You really do seem completely incapable of sorting out past and present and future. That announcement describes something scheduled to happen after the announcement was made -- i.e. something which would happen in the future. As it turns out, Roggio was unable to make the departure date mentioned in your cut and paste. As of today, he's still sitting Stateside.




:lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5661420 - 05/22/06 07:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

political debate = my source is more correct than yours

what a joke


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Phred]
    #5662642 - 05/23/06 12:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You really do seem completely incapable of sorting out past and present and future

No, the courierpostonline posted that he'd left on May 18. He himself said he'd be leaving on May 18. That's why I thought he'd been there since May 18. Trying to say I'm at fault for his incompetent travel arrangements is about as weak as I've come to expect from you.

Thursday, May 18, 2006
Bill Roggio, who started a blog two years ago with the goal of providing a balanced perspective on military combat operations, will leave today for Afghanistan.


http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060518/NEWS01/605180367

so is not tainted with the dread "embed derangement syndrome".


It's unlikely he's going to write articles critical of the occupation forces when he's embedding this week. Don't you think?





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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5662666 - 05/23/06 12:43 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The American military is the best. I challenge you to show me some evidence of a military that is better trained and equipped.


To me the "best" is more to do with how they fight rather than how they're equipped and trained. You were better trained and equipped than the peasants in the Vietcong and still couldn't overcome them. To me that implies the Vietcong were tougher soldiers.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: faslimy]
    #5662873 - 05/23/06 02:14 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

faslimy said:
political debate = my source is more correct than yours

what a joke




Good point, but to be honest seeing phreddy reduced to making semantic points about the travel arrangements of his favourite embed is probably more amusing than any of his useless political "points".


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5662933 - 05/23/06 03:09 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Alex213 writes:

Quote:

No, the courierpostonline posted that he'd left on May 18.




Don't ever change, Alex213, seriously. What would we do without you?

Even now, you still can't distinguish between verb tenses. This latest cut and paste of yours from the courier post does not say "he'd left" (past tense) on the 18th, it said he "will leave" (future tense) on the 18th. They were wrong in their prediction. He didn't leave on the 18th.

And if it was the courier post's words which lead you to believe he "had been" embedded in Afghanistan, (which would have left a remarkably short time between his departure on the 18th and the filing of his first "embedded" commentary on the 19th, especially considering travel time -- hardly time to arrange to go on even a single embedded patrol), why on earth did you not quote the courier post in your post #5659948? Why did you quote a promo from a Calgary talk radio station instead? Could this have been one of your frantic "two minute Google searches" you profess to disdain?

As for providing amusement --

The rational readers of this thread recognize full well your lame dismissal as a "semantic point" the difference between someone who has been embedded with Canadian troops in Afghanistan with someone who hopes to become embedded with Canadian troops in Afghanistan, and undoubtedly derive great amusement from it. I'm sure your English masters in school didn't teach you that blatant conflation of verb tenses is nothing more than a mere "semantic point".

Quote:

It's unlikely he's going to write articles critical of the occupation forces when he's embedding this week.




LOL! Seriously, Alex213, don't ever change. When shown that Roggio has never been embedded in Afghanistan, you effortlessly move the goalposts in classic Leftie manner -- not only can we not trust any embedded reporter, we can't trust one who might one day become an embedded reporter.

Of course, we can also not trust a reporter who was ever in the military himself at an earlier stage in his life. But we can trust career army generals and diplomats who never leave the Green Zone but issue sweeping statements four days after arriving in country.

Why don't you just admit what everyone here has already recognized -- the seal of approval you bestow to journalistic sources has nothing to do with any factor other than how closely their words agree with your preconceived notions. If they say what you want to hear, they're "experts". If they say what you don't want to hear, they're liars, either because --

-- they used to be soldiers, or
-- they are now embedded with soldiers, or
-- they plan to be embedded with soldiers, or
-- they know nothing about military matters, or
-- they know nothing about the background history of Afghanistan or Iraq or Islam or whatever or
-- their work is published in media you deem to be right wing (even though according to you there are no left-leaning mainstream outlets for them to publish in) or...

...but I think you catch the drift. It's all ad hominem attacks. Because, after all, if a reporter says something you disagree with, why that reporter must be lying, it's just a question of determining why he's lying.




Phred


--------------------


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Phred]
    #5662963 - 05/23/06 03:39 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

They were wrong in their prediction. He didn't leave on the 18th.


Prediction? Are you denying Roggio said he was going to leave on May 18? The fact that he was too incompetent to do so isn't anyones fault but his own.

Don't ever change, Alex213, seriously. What would we do without you?


Get away with posting even more bullshit than you do?  :smirk:

Incidentally, who are you referring to by "we"? Are you referring to the mouse you keep in your top pocket?

The rational readers of this thread recognize full well your lame dismissal as a "semantic point" the difference between someone who has been embedded with Canadian troops in Afghanistan with someone who hopes to become embedded with Canadian troops in Afghanistan

Then you will be able to list the differences other than semantic between an embedded journalist and one who hopes to be embedded this week.

Please do so.

When shown that Roggio has never been embedded in Afghanistan

But would have been embedded if his travel arrangments had been competent...

not only can we not trust any embedded reporter, we can't trust one who might one day become an embedded reporter.

The difference between an embedded reporter and a reporter who hopes to be embedded later this week being what exactly?

You do understand that an embedded reporter is allowed to report precisely what the people he is embedded with allow him to?

Of course, we can also not trust a reporter who was ever in the military himself at an earlier stage in his life.

If you are desperately trying to claim this is my position then you are, as usual, lying.

but issue sweeping statements four days after arriving in country.


Statements issued in secret. You do understand the difference between a secret report to your superiors and a public pronouncement I take it? Or do you believe there can be no difference between the two?

It's all ad hominem attacks

Don't be stupid. There are obvious and inherent limitations in the reports an embedded journalist can produce. Anyone with even the faintest grasp of journalism understands this. Which is presumably why you do not.


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5663038 - 05/23/06 05:05 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
The American military is the best. I challenge you to show me some evidence of a military that is better trained and equipped.


To me the "best" is more to do with how they fight rather than how they're equipped and trained. You were better trained and equipped than the peasants in the Vietcong and still couldn't overcome them. To me that implies the Vietcong were tougher soldiers.






You are wrong. You only fight as well as you train.

"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war"

As for Nam, Our troops were better trained and better equipped. And without a doubt the hardest swinging dicks there. The Viet Chong were a vicious enemy, however, the men with no previous jungle fighting experience put search and destroy missions out there that swept and cleared allot of territory. As a veteran, and a son of a Vietnam veteran, IT WAS THE POLITIC ANS THAT FUCKED OVER OUR TROOPS BY NOT LETTING THEM TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Alex213]
    #5663582 - 05/23/06 10:27 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It really wasn't semantics. You said he was already overseas while he wasn't. You were wrong. I wouldn't expect you to actually admit that, though.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Redstorm]
    #5663615 - 05/23/06 10:35 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Also, making unbased claims that an embedded reported with offer biased commentary has been proved wrong in the past. The Project for Excellence in Journalism completed a broad, spanning analysis on the reporting of embeds, and found that almost 94% of the coverage is simply stating the facts of what occurred. You can read this excellent research here:

http://www.journalism.org/resources/research/reports/war/embed/default.asp


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Redstorm]
    #5663904 - 05/23/06 11:35 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The amusing thing about this exchange is that it's all a typical Alex213 red herring. You will note his standard tactic of ignoring the substance of the reporting (i.e. the fact that a major Taliban leader was captured and that only 17 of the 104 deaths reported were Afghani or coalition forces, the other 87 being insurgents) since it doesn't fit his script. Far from indicating some kind of Taliban threat, the latest engagements represent a major defeat for the Taliban. Instead he attempts to dodge the reports from the BBC, Associated Press et al by claiming (falsely, of course) that the fellow who referenced -- not wrote, just brought them to our attention -- the BBC and AP reports "has been" embedded in Afghanistan, therefore we are to ignore them.

***As a side note here, if we are to use the standard Leftie loose definition of "lying" Alex213 routinely applies to Blair and Bush's statements about WMDs in Iraq, Alex213 lied about Roggio's status.***

Even if Roggio had been embedded in Afghanistan (which of course he hasn't) it would have exactly zero bearing on the accuracy of the reports from the BBC and Associated Press. Roggio provides links to the BBC and AP reports. I clicked on them to read them. Alex213 -- of course -- did not.

I suppose I could also mention the CentCom reports, but Alex213 would dismiss them as lies -- since even though they were released not by embedded reporters or by hope-to-be-embedded reporters or even by reporters who once served in the military but by currently serving army generals, the reports are not SECRET reports -- therefore are worthless in Alex213 Land.

I would ask Alex213 why he believes the report from The Independent (which may for all we know have had input from the dreaded embedded reporters) yet ignores the reports from the BBC and Associated Press, but we all know we'll get no answer.



Phred


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Phred]
    #5663917 - 05/23/06 11:38 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Ya'll have some great fun in here. :grin:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5663963 - 05/23/06 11:47 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You should hang out here more often. We definitely have a few posters here from the "Reality-based Community" who exhibit extraordinary disdain for actual reality. I've read your work in the Philosophy and Spirituality forum. I have no doubt you'd have as easy a time debunking the nonsense posted here as you do debunking the nonsense posted in P&S.

Not that's it's hard to do, mind, just that the opportunities here are so abundant.



Phred


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Phred]
    #5663999 - 05/23/06 11:53 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

:lol:

I'm not too terribly interested in political matters (actually, the thought of global politics is more intriguing), so I'm essentially bound to the role of an observer... Perhaps I will follow the news a bit more, and offer some perspectives... :shrug:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5664108 - 05/23/06 12:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I was never into politics until I started reading this forum religiously. I think reading so many different points of view ends up sharpening one's mind.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Redstorm]
    #5665345 - 05/23/06 04:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
I was never into politics until I started reading this forum religiously. I think reading so many different points of view ends up sharpening one's mind.




If you go into it with the right frame of mind and a willingness to engage. If you just want to proselytize and lie and just don't give a shit, then it's useless. This is a fairly harsh crucible and very little bullshit passes through unchallenged, although some shit is just too nuts for words.

I honestly find it absolutely amazing that Alex is still humping this dead dog. Hey Al, you fucked up. Deal with it. You're only embarassing yourself.


--------------------


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Phred]
    #5671473 - 05/25/06 03:19 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Here's the US military spokesman. I guess he must be lying too  :rolleyes:

Taliban grows in strength, US admits

Declan Walsh in Islamabad
Thursday May 25, 2006
The Guardian


The Taliban are growing in strength, the US military admitted yesterday as it defended 16 civilian deaths inflicted by its bombers during southern Afghanistan's most violent week in years.
Hundreds of insurgents have taken root in three key southern provinces at the heart of the current Nato deployment, said a US spokesman, Colonel Tim Collins.

"There's no doubt the Taliban have grown in strength and influence in certain areas in Kandahar, Helmand and in southern Uruzgan," he said. "That's why we are going after them."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,,1782461,00.html

Instead he attempts to dodge the reports from the BBC

Quit lying. The report from the BBC is a different story to the one in the Independent. They do not disprove each other. Stop trying to pretend they do.

As a side note here, if we are to use the standard Leftie loose definition of "lying" Alex213 routinely applies to Blair and Bush's statements about WMDs in Iraq

Example? As the only person who still believes Iraq had WMD your credibility on this issue isn't exactly high.

I would ask Alex213 why he believes the report from The Independent (which may for all we know have had input from the dreaded embedded reporters) yet ignores the reports from the BBC and Associated Press

No, it isn't just in the independent. This is a typical example of your lying. Roggio is claiming all the media reports are inaccurate. There's Roggio on one side and everyone else on the other.

And again, it's tiresome having to repeatedly expose your lies but the two stories in the BBC and the Independent don't disprove each other. It's a measure of the worth of your argument that your only hope is to try and confuse the two in the hope someone will take you seriously.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: Redstorm]
    #5671483 - 05/25/06 03:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

and found that almost 94% of the coverage is simply stating the facts of what occurred.

So when an embed arrives at an incident with an american army patrol and another american army patrol tells him what happened would you consider that a "fact"?

Think about it.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Taliban launch biggest attack since war [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5671643 - 05/25/06 05:42 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You are wrong. You only fight as well as you train.

"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war"


Where would you put desire to win and belief that you're fighting for something worthwhile in the equation SirTrip? Say if you had a well trained army fighting some war they don't believe in who are more interested in smoking doobies than fighting. How would they stack up against an relatively untrained group of guys fighting for their families and something they believe in?


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