TrancedOutBrah said:

So like, has this ever been verified in a lab setting with GC/MS?


I'd love to see a sample sent in for testing at a analytical lab with proof this stuff is actually real

The so called sources on page 1 are... beyond weak

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Bardy said:

I don’t think he’s been disrespectful man. He’s just disagreeing…

I for one find HBWR can be very euphoric in the right dose. So I’m not sure what Tregar is talking about really. I actually find that HBWR in very small amounts to be more euphoric than some shroom trips and acid trips I’ve had. It’s a completely different feeling, more akin to something like opium than LSD sometimes, but still trippy in its own way.

It all depends on the dose. I’ve had some horrible times on HBWR as well on higher amounts.

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tregar said:

See pages 32 and 33 for latest discovery and experiences:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27850299/fpart/32/vc/1

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s240779 said:

People have different page numbers because the site has a setting that allows one to specify the number of posts that appear on each page. This thread only has 7 pages for me…

What you should do is link to specific posts, for example, this post of yours is #29319953. You could also specify a range: "Read from this point on: #29312845 →"

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This is what that link looks like for me:

unholy said:

LSA is sedative and non-hallucinogenic.

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Are you sure about that? The only people who are qualified to speak about the effects of pure LSA are people who have tried pure LSA. Albert Hofmann and his colleagues tried LSA and so did a few other people in the context of two studies performed decades ago. Let's take a look at the comments that were made about pure LSA:


Hofmann's quotes


"Already at that stage we had, in experiments on ourselves, ascertained a psychotomimetic activity with a marked narcotic component with dosages of 0.5 to 1 mg."[1]


Grof: Have you actually tried the [ololiuhqui] yourself?
Hofmann: Yes, I did. But, of course, it is about ten times less active; to get a good effect, you need one to two milligrams.
Grof: And what was that experience like?
Hofmann: The experience had some strong narcotic effect, but at the same time there was a very strange sense of voidness. In this [void], everything loses its meaning. It is a very mystical experience.[2]


"The effective dose of lysergic acid amide is 1 to 2 mg by oral application."[3]


"A substance very closely related to LSD, the monoethylamide of lysergic acid (LAE-32), in which an ethyl group is replaced by a hydrogen atom on the diethylamide residue of LSD, proved to be some ten times less psychoactive than LSD. The hallucinogenic effect is also qualitatively different: it is characterized by a narcotic component. This narcotic effect is yet more pronounced in lysergic acid amide (LA-111), in which both ethyl groups of LSD are displaced by hydrogen atoms. These effects, which I established in comparative self-experiments with LA-111 and LAE-32, were corroborated by subsequent clinical investigations."[4]


"The slight difference in chemical structure between the [ololiuhqui] constituents and LSD is very significant with regard to hallucinogenic acitivity. The effective oral dose in man of LSD is 0.05 mg; this compound is thus about 50 to 100 times more active than lysergic acid amide, which is active in doses of 2 to 5 mg. Furthermore there is not only a quantitative difference between the principles of [Ipomoea tricolor] and Turbina corymbosa and LSD; there is likewise a qualitative one, LSD being a very specific hallucinogen, whereas the psychic effects of lysergic acid amide and the total alkaloids of these two plants are characterized by a pronounced narcotic component (Hofmann, 1968)."[5]

[Hofmann, A.]: Psychotomimetic agents. In Burger, A. (Ed.): Chemical Constitution and Pharmacodynamic Action, 2nd ed., New York, M. Dekker, 1968, 169–235.


"Jonathan Ott lives in México on a ranch in the mountains of the state of Veracruz. His ranch bears the name “Ololiuhqui.” This name has its special significance. That is, Ololiuhqui is the Aztec name for one of the ancient Mexican magic drugs, the seeds of plants from the morning glory family (Convolvulaceae). Ololiuhqui has a connection to my friendship with Jonathan. My chemical investigations of Ololiuhqui seeds led to the unexpected discovery that the entheogenic principles of Ololiuhqui are alkaloids, especially lysergic acid amide, which exhibits a very close relationship to lysergic acid diethylamide (=ʟsᴅ). It follows therefrom that ʟsᴅ, which hitherto had been considered to be a synthetic product of the laboratory, actually belongs to the group of sacred Mexican drugs."[6]



Comments from others


I'm presenting select quotes from the two studies in this table, which shows that they parallel some of Hofmann's comments. Note that ergine is a synonym for LSA.



Hofmann 1963: reference #1, below.

Heim E, Heimann H, Lukács G. 1968. Die psychische Wirkung der mexikanischen Droge „Ololiuqui“ am Menschen. Psychopharmacologia 13 (1): 35–48. doi:10.1007/BF00401617.
The quotes on this page were translated using Google Translate.

Solms H. 1956. Relationships between chemical structure and psychoses with the use of psychotoxic substances; comparative pharmacopsychiatric analysis: a new research method. Journal of Clinical and Experimental Psychopathology 17 (4): 429–433. PMID 13406032. https://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=4195


Heim 1968 also recorded the following effects: "after a relatively short phase of dozing, all test subjects felt relaxed and comfortable, sometimes even a little euphoric. They seemed to overestimate their performance capabilities. Paraesthesia and individual synesthesia were noted, as well as an overestimation of the time that had passed." b) ᴅ-isolysergic acid amide, p. 39


1. Albert Hofmann. The Active Principles of the Seeds of Rivea corymbosa and Ipomoea violacea. 1963-11-22. Cambridge, MA: Botanical Museum, Harvard University. doi: 10.5962/p.168542. Pharmacological and clinical activity of the isolated alkaloids, pages 208–209
Rivea corymbosa has been updated to Turbina corymbosa and later, Ipomoea corymbosa. Ipomoea violacea was determined to be a different plant altogether; the I. violacea Hofmann is referring to is I. tricolor (more info).

2. Stanislav Grof Interviews Dr. Albert Hofmann (1984). MAPS Bulletin 9.2 (Fall 2001): 22–35.

3. Albert Hofmann. The Road to Eleusis: Unveiling the Secret of the Mysteries. 1978, 2008. R. G. Wasson, Albert Hofmann, Carl A. P. Ruck, Peter Webster. 2. A Challenging Question and My Answer, p. 40.
https://books.google.com/books?id=7JC7EAAAQBAJ&pg=PA40

4. Albert Hofmann. LSD: My Problem Child (1979). 3. Chemical Modifications of LSD
More info about LAE-32, for those interested.

5. Albert Hofmann. The Botany and Chemistry of Hallucinogens. Schultes, R.E., Hofmann, A. 1973. Chas. Thomas, Springfield, IL. p. 252

6. Albert Hofmann, Burg i.L., Switzerland, November 1992.
This note is the foreword to Jonathan Ott's "Pharmacotheon". Copied from the 2nd edition (1996, Natural Products Co., p. 13, ISBN: 9780961423490). The first edition was published in 1993.

unholy said:

LSH is decomposed when hydrolyzed.

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unholy said:

it is possible that LSH is much more stable than people think.

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Quote:

This is illustrated by the reactions of acetamide with formaldehyde¹, acetaldehyde², propylaldehyde³, and benzaldehyde⁴⁻⁵.
...
A mixture of acetamide (2 moles), aldehyde (1 mole), and acetic acid (0.2 mole per mole of amide) are placed in it round-bottomed flask and quietly refluxed for...
This procedure usually yields small white needles...
...
The condensations of acetamide with formaldehyde acetaldehyde, propylaldehyde and benzaldehyde already studied by other authors have been repeated.
Similar condensations have been carried out with butyl-, isovaleryl- and heptyl- aldehydes and the products are described.
It is believed that the reaction is a general one.

(1) G. Pulvermacher, Ber., 26, 304 (1892)
(2) V. v. Richter, ibid., 6, 477 (1872)
(3) A. Reich, Monatsk., 26, 933 (1904)
(4) K. Bulow, Ber., 26, 1973 (1893)
(5) Roth, Ann., 164, 72 (1870)

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Quote:

Ethanol adds to the imine to give the aminal, so ALD-52 is not produced from this. That's pretty cool that the aminal is stable enough to isolate.
True, it does not produce ALD-52, but it's not just ALD-52 with an additional hydrogen. See my pic below which shows the difference between ALD-52 and the theoretical derivative prepared from this sherry procedure. The structure of that derivative is based on the paper https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC49935/

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Quote:

For indole derivatives with substituents at carbon-3 (like LSD, tryptophan, tryptamine, DMT, psilocin, etc), the paper uses N-acetyltryptophan and 3-indole acetic acid to show that a different reaction occurs at the indole nitrogen, and they state this reaction only occurs when both acetaldehyde and ethanol are present

Image showing structures of product obtained with un-sub'd indole compared to C3-sub'd indole like LSD:

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