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suba
Stranger
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Re: LSH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: Bardy]
#28529328 - 11/04/23 05:02 PM (2 months, 22 days ago) |
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I don’t disagree
The keys are Acetaldehyde to form LSH Isoveraldehyde to form LSI
There are several papers linked but you have to dig the thread to find them.
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Bardy


Registered: 04/02/14
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Re: LSH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: suba]
#28529339 - 11/04/23 05:18 PM (2 months, 22 days ago) |
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Yeah I understand that.
I haven’t seen any links to actual research on what happens in reality when you combine the ingredients though. It’s all speculation as far as I can tell.
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: LSH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: tregar]
#28529591 - 11/04/23 08:27 PM (2 months, 22 days ago) |
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Psychedelic Vine Seeds - Things to know, Common Myths and Misconceptions. 06/03/19, Hubi
Quote:
- The myth of essential oils like peppermint oil would convert LSA back to LSH
These "adduct" reactions (e.g. allegedly creating LSH or LSC, or ...) are highly doubtful to happen as imagined.
You have to remember that not even in nature e.g. LSH gets made like that from LSA. There's no known biosynthetic pathway for LSA, so LSA in nature is always a decomposition product (e.g. from LSH). The fungi on the vine plants synth only LSH, and this then decomposes over time into LSA.
The suggested "adduct" reaction is a Micheal addition, and a bad one at that amides are very non-nucleophilic. The desired reaction involves nucleophilic attack of the amide nitrogen on LSA on the carbonyl carbon of acetaldehyde. That this reaction could happen at ambient conditions and have a balance anywhere on the side of LSH, it likely would need to be catalyzed (e.g. by an unknown enzyme). But as pointed out, LSH in nature is a product of a completely different pathway (with ergometrine as intermediate), so it's highly unlikely there's a corresponding enzyme.
LSA has at least four other reactive nucleophilic sites (N-1, C-2, C-3, and N-6), where some would likely be more reactive (e.g. N-1).
But adding these essential oils really seems to substantially change effects, if certain parameters seem to fit (e.g. in an alcohol like MeOH or EtOH, with not much water, low pH). But if this is due to a chemical reaction (maybe even in-vivo like for cocaethylene), or just because of the actual synergy of effects of the essential oils themselves, nobody knows, or has ever tested. E.g some report also a difference using these oils with LSD.
Also what someone once tested by TLC is, that pure acetaldehyde added really changed the molecules in MeOH, if not much water was present. This could clearly be seen by a change of the stripes on a TLC plate. But no one knows what reaction is exactly taking place. As mentioned above, it's pretty unlikely that LSH gets created, but I could well think it's some kind of (semi-) acetal reaction.
Unless someone makes some experiments and runs the results through a MS, we will probably never know what exactly is happening.
Quote:
wolf8312 said: And I really mean it, it would kick in like a proper genuine psychedelic- nothing like Hoffman described (bland) LSA as...
Hofmann's comments about 'LSA' were not bland.
Grof: Have you actually tried the ololiuhqui yourself?
Hofmann: Yes, I did. But, of course, it is about ten times less active; to get a good effect, you need one to two milligrams.
Grof: And what was that experience like?
Hofmann: The experience had some strong narcotic effect, but at the same time there was a very strange sense of voidness. In this void, everything loses its meaning. It is a very mystical experience.
Stanislav Grof Interviews Dr. Albert Hofmann (1984). MAPS Bulletin 9.2 (Fall 2001): 22–35
Ololiuqui changed to ololiuhqui Void changed to void
NOTE: Although the spelling ololiuqui has gained wide acceptance and is now the commonest orthography, linguistic evidence indicates that this Nahuatl word is correctly written ololiuhqui.
Note by R.E. Schultes included in the following publication: Notes on the Present Status of Ololiuhqui and the Other Hallucinogens of Mexico. R. Gordon Wasson. Harvard Botannical Museum Leaflets, vol. 20 (1963)
The effective dose of lysergic acid amide is 1 to 2 mg by oral application.
Albert Hofmann. The Road to Eleusis: Unveiling the Secret of the Mysteries. 1978. R. G. Wasson, Albert Hofmann, and Carl A. P. Ruck. p. 10
When I discovered LSD, it was believed it was a product of laboratory. And then we discovered that this compound had existed already for thousands of years in the plant kingdom...not exactly LSD, but practically.
Albert Hofmann. Hofmann's Potion (documentary). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpSLjdPiSH8&start=293 (4:53)
Edited by s240779 (11/04/23 08:39 PM)
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: LASH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: s240779]
#28529724 - 11/04/23 10:45 PM (2 months, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
s240779 said: Psychedelic Vine Seeds - Things to know, Common Myths and Misconceptions. 06/03/19, Hubi
Quote:
- The myth of essential oils like peppermint oil would convert LSA back to LSH
These "adduct" reactions (e.g. allegedly creating LSH or LSC, or ...) are highly doubtful to happen as imagined.
You have to remember that not even in nature e.g. LSH gets made like that from LSA. There's no known psynthetic pathway for LSA, so LSA in nature is always a decomposition product (e.g. from LASH). The fungi on the vine plants synth only LASH, and this then decomposes over time into LSA.
The suggested "addict" reaction is a Micheal addition, and a bad one at that amides are very non-nucleophil. The desired reaction involves nucleophil attack of the amide nitrogen on LSA on the carbon carbon of adeadhead. That this reaction could happen at ambient conditions and have a balance anywhere on the side of LASH, it likely would need to be catalyzed (e.g. by an unknown enzyme). But as pointed out, LASH in nature is a product of a completely different pathway (with agmatine as intermediate), so it's highly unlikely there's a corresponding enzyme.
LSA has at least four other reactive nucleophil sites (N-1, C-2, C-3, and N-6), where some would likely be more reactive (e.g. N-1).
But adding these essential oils really seems to substantially change effects, if certain parameters seem to fit (e.g. in an alcohol like Meh or Etho, with not much water, low pH). But if this is due to a chemical reaction (maybe even in-viveo like for Cathleen), or just because of the actual synergy of effects of the essential oils themselves, nobody knows, or has ever tested. E.g some report also a difference using these oils with LSD.
Also what someone once tested by TLC is, that pure adeadhead added really changed the molecules in Meh, if not much water was present. This could clearly be seen by a change of the stripes on a TLC plate. But no one knows what reaction is exactly taking place. As mentioned above, it's pretty unlikely that LASH gets created, but I could well think it's some kind of (semi-) acetyl reaction.
Unless someone makes some experiments and runs the results through a MS, we will probably never know what exactly is happening.
Quote:
wolf8312 said: And I really mean it, it would kick in like a proper genuine psychedelic- nothing like Hoffman described (bland) LSA as...
Hoffman's comments about 'LSA' were not bland.
Grof: Have you actually tried the ololiuqui yourself?
Hofmann: Yes, I did. But, of course, it is about ten times less active; to get a good effect, you need one to two milligrams.
Grof: And what was that experience like?
Hofmann: The experience had some strong narcotic effect, but at the same time there was a very strange sense of voidness. In this void, everything loses its meaning. It is a very mystical experience.
Stanislav Grof Interviews Dr. Albert Hofmann (1984). MAPS Bulletin 9.2 (Fall 2001): 22–35
Ololiuqui changed to ololiuqui Void changed to void
NOTE: Although the spelling ololiuqui has gained wide acceptance and is now the commonest orthography, linguistic evidence indicates that this Nahuatl word is correctly written ololiuqui.
Note by R.E. Schultes included in the following publication: Notes on the Present Status of Ololiuqui and the Other Hallucinogens of Mexico. R. Gordon Wasson. Harvard Botanical Museum Leaflets, vol. 20 (1963)
The effective dose of lysergic acid amide is 1 to 2 mg by oral application.
Albert Hofmann. The Road to Eleusis: Unveiling the Secret of the Mysteries. 1978. R. G. Wasson, Albert Hofmann, and Carl A. P. Ruck. p. 10
When I discovered LSD, it was believed it was a product of laboratory. And then we discovered that this compound had existed already for thousands of years in the plant kingdom...not exactly LSD, but practically.
Albert Hofmann. Hoffman's Potion (documentary). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpSLjdPiSH8&start=293 (4:53)
But you are referencing Hoffman's opinions on Ololiuqui there, not the isolated compound LSA which I believe Hofmann isolated in a lab and tried himself reporting it was nothing special.
I'll try to find the exact quote (pretty sure that it's in My problem Child) as I am working from memory and paraphrasing.
My point was, that his own experience with the isolated alkaloid LSA might well explain why so many of us have found the seeds to be so utterly mindblowing and extractions so bland.
Not only Hofmann either, a large proportion of the psychedelic community has always treated HBWR/MG as inferior to LSD in every way, when it is not, almost certainly because they either used extractions or couldn't actually hold the seeds down.
HBWR seeds do not only contain LSA after all, and I/we were also speculating if other compounds within these seeds (or LSA itself) could possibly react/convert within the body itself, just as OP is asserting will occur in wine, or lemon juice, peppermint, etc.
To be clear I myself do not have the answer, but I do believe there is more to these seeds than anyone really understands.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
Edited by wolf8312 (11/04/23 11:07 PM)
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: LASH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: wolf8312]
#28529747 - 11/04/23 11:23 PM (2 months, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
wolf8312 said: But you are referencing Hoffman's opinions on Ololiuqui there, not the isolated compound LSA
It's clear that Hofmann is talking about lysergic acid amide in the first two quotes, not any type of seed extract. Did you read all of the text? Furthermore, I can show you that Hofmann is talking about LAA in the third one as well:
Hofmann uses the term, this compound, which means he's only talking about one compound. And Hofmann uses the term, plant kingdom, which is a reference to Convolvulaceae plants. And in The Road to Eleusis, Hofmann refers to LAA as 'the main constituent of ololiuhqui' (p. 41 in the new 2023 edition).
And why does your quote of my post read ololiuqui changed to ololiuqui? My actual post says ololiuqui changed to ololiuhqui because I changed ololiuqui to ololiuhqui because R.E. Schultes stated that ololiuhqui is the correct spelling, and the relevant reference is in my post. You spelled ololiuhqui without the h, which suggests that you didn't read Schultes' note, which suggests that you didn't read all of the text.
Edited by s240779 (11/05/23 12:36 AM)
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Bardy


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Re: LASH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: s240779]
#28529790 - 11/05/23 01:19 AM (2 months, 21 days ago) |
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I honestly didn’t notice a big difference in effects between eating the whole seeds and using an alcohol extract. Seems to be a good way of reducing nausea while keeping the full range of effects of the seeds. Maybe by the word extract you mean pure LSA? (Question directed at wolf).
Hofmann’s description of LSA in that quote in right on the money I think. It is very stoning in a way, but also possesses some of the qualities of LSD with respect to mind expansion and appreciation of the world. Very cool.
And the article quoted makes 100% sense to me. I’m not convinced the aldehydes are really doing much… I’m not even convinced they really alter the experience for me at all, but I haven’t done a lot of experimentation.
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wolf8312
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Re: LASH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: Bardy]
#28529815 - 11/05/23 02:08 AM (2 months, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
s240779 said:
Quote:
wolf8312 said: But you are referencing Hoffman's opinions on Ololiuqui there, not the isolated compound LSA
It's clear that Hofmann is talking about lysergic acid amide in the first two quotes, not any type of seed extract. Did you read all of the text? Furthermore, I can show you that Hofmann is talking about LAA in the third one as well:
Hofmann uses the term, this compound, which means he's only talking about one compound. And Hofmann uses the term, plant kingdom, which is a reference to Convolvulaceae plants. And in The Road to Eleusis, Hofmann refers to LAA as 'the main constituent of ololiuhqui' (p. 41 in the new 2023 edition).
And why does your quote of my post read ololiuqui changed to ololiuqui? My actual post says ololiuqui changed to ololiuhqui because I changed ololiuqui to ololiuhqui because R.E. Schultes stated that ololiuhqui is the correct spelling, and the relevant reference is in my post. You spelled ololiuhqui without the h, which suggests that you didn't read Schultes' note, which suggests that you didn't read all of the text.
I used my own spelling (not the best speller at the best of times) and you’re right didn’t give it much thought. I don’t really understand why my using a different spelling would be ultimate proof that I didn’t read your post? You mean because upon seeing your own spelling I didn’t immediately change mine?
As to Hoffmann clearly talking about LSA, I merely answered/referenced the quote that you yourself provided:
Grof: Have you actually tried the ololiuqui yourself?
Hofmann: Yes, I did. But, of course, it is about ten times less active; to get a good effect, you need one to two milligrams.
Grof: And what was that experience like?
Hofmann: The experience had some strong narcotic effect, but at the same time there was a very strange sense of voidness. In this void, everything loses its meaning. It is a very mystical experience.
Maybe he was talking about pure LSA, but in the quote you yourself provided he was responding to a question specifically asking him if he had used ololiuqui!
It’s also likely he was talking of having used the seeds and -as a chemist- referring to the pure alkaloids (LSA) within them purely out of habit.
But just to be clear. When you say Hoffmann tried ololiuqui seeds, do you mean by that he ingested the pure compound LSA extracted from ololiuqui seeds only but didn’t actually eat the seeds themselves?
You have to remember here that my hypothesis is that the seed experience and the pure LSA experience are two different things producing different effects and experiences. I also believe (as do many others) that raw cactus creates a different more full spectrum experience than extracted mescaline (even compared to alcohol extractions) though not nearly to the same extent as raw HBWR was distinct from my own LSA extractions.
Anyhoo, I will try to to track down the Hoffmann quote to which I myself am referring where he was -I think- talking specifically about the pure compound! He doesn’t say the seeds were ‘bland’ specifically though I only meant that in comparison to his LSD experiences (which after all he wrote a book about) his descriptions always seemed bland and comparatively uninteresting (like my own extractions).
Quote:
Bardy said: I honestly didn’t notice a big difference in effects between eating the whole seeds and using an alcohol extract. Seems to be a good way of reducing nausea while keeping the full range of effects of the seeds. Maybe by the word extract you mean pure LSA? (Question directed at wolf).
Hofmann’s description of LSA in that quote in right on the money I think. It is very stoning in a way, but also possesses some of the qualities of LSD with respect to mind expansion and appreciation of the world. Very cool.
And the article quoted makes 100% sense to me. I’m not convinced the aldehydes are really doing much… I’m not even convinced they really alter the experience for me at all, but I haven’t done a lot of experimentation.
I only ever had limited extraction experience with LSA myself (mine laid waste to potent seeds though still produced a shitty trip with all the magic removed) and my technique may well have been poor.
However it does seem to me that if an extraction could reproduce the experience I used to get from the whole seeds, and minus the god awful side effects, then such a discovery would have been an atomic bomb upon the psychedelic community as essentially it would have been an LSD tek one could perform in the kitchen! Everyone would have been doing it (especially now with all research chemicals being passed off as acid) instead of looking for acid. The community by and large however seemed to continue to look upon LSA as inferior to LSD in every regard.
But maybe you’re right, perhaps should give it another go one day. Should be clear though everything I am saying here is my based only on my experience. I am certainly not trying to lay down any facts, and will happily admit I am clueless about how and why these seeds work!
I would simply like to get to the bottom of the matter (remove the sickness keep the magic). It’s something that has always interested me greatly not because I understand it, but because I don’t!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
Edited by wolf8312 (11/05/23 03:09 AM)
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Bardy


Registered: 04/02/14
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Re: LASH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: wolf8312]
#28529829 - 11/05/23 03:02 AM (2 months, 21 days ago) |
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An alcohol extraction certainly doesn’t rid the experience of all negative side effects. There is still an uncomfortable come up to deal with, maybe 2-3 hours of those crappy tense feelings with a bit of stomach upset, but I think it’s reduced compared to taking the whole seeds. I haven’t had a strong trip on whole seeds in a while though so it’s possible I’m mistaken.
If you don’t have access to LSD I think the seeds are definitely worth a bit of uncomfortable feelings at the start. The negatives seem to disappear quicker than the trip does for me, so I end up on the peak of the experience feeling pretty great generally.
Thanks for the links and quoting that article!
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: LASH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: Bardy]
#28529840 - 11/05/23 03:18 AM (2 months, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Bardy said: An alcohol extraction certainly doesn’t rid the experience of all negative side effects. There is still an uncomfortable come up to deal with, maybe 2-3 hours of those crappy tense feelings with a bit of stomach upset, but I think it’s reduced compared to taking the whole seeds. I haven’t had a strong trip on whole seeds in a while though so it’s possible I’m mistaken.
If you don’t have access to LSD I think the seeds are definitely worth a bit of uncomfortable feelings at the start. The negatives seem to disappear quicker than the trip does for me, so I end up on the peak of the experience feeling pretty great generally.
Thanks for the links and quoting that article!
Same. My extractions still produced some discomfort. A really interesting thing I found, however, is that the sickness produced by the seeds seemed directly proportional to the magic itself.
For example, if I ate whole seeds raw, and they were weak seeds, the god awful side effects would also be greatly diminished (just as with an extraction). Highly potent seeds, however would feel like pure poison (this was not placebo) but would utterly blow my mind equal to and occasionally exceeding the LSD experience (just as this tek claims). My conclusion was that one couldn’t remove the sickness without removing the magic.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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Bardy


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Re: LASH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: wolf8312]
#28529847 - 11/05/23 03:31 AM (2 months, 21 days ago) |
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Yeah you’re probably right. I haven’t done a large dose of whole seeds in a long time because I’ve generally had better things available…
I do remember having some awesome peaks on LSA without many side effects, they seem to subside for me by mid journey at least. Would have to try them again and make a proper note of it though.
I remember loving them when I was like 18-19. Would put up with that nausea and the cramps for the blissful peak on many occasions haha
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suba
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Re: LASH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: Bardy]
#28530458 - 11/05/23 11:02 AM (2 months, 21 days ago) |
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I think the input ingredients vary, and matters greatly.
Your heavenly blue might be genetically off from my heavenly blue. Or raised under different conditions
You might be trying grandpa otts, or hbwr (which I’ve heard has more discomfort - possibly more glycosides or other ergopeptine toxins?)
The symbiotic fungus genetics (Periglandula ipomoeae) could vary, or it could produce a different alkaloid distribution based on nutrients or climate or elevation (we may not know).
And then there’s the Sherry wine acetaldehyde content variation per product. And the isoveraldehyde varies on your source of peppermint or lemon. Any of those could have zero or degraded amount.
There’s so many variables. Even if kitchen science works one time, there’s likely other times it won’t work because things vary. Begs the question, if they did work, then what’s the kitchen science to tell potency that I’m actually mixing the right chemicals? There’s some testing science needed here. Just having peppermint something isn’t good enough, I need peppermint with the isoveraldehyde. For example. Fresh mint vs oil may be the answer, but still have the verification problem, etc. does all mint leaves have what I want? Do all lemons? Traeger thinks using synthetic isoveraldehyde is key and you don’t get a change from the kitchen stuff (even though he mentions them), so maybe there’s a clue there…
Then, there’s the chemical kinetics of the reaction, does it even check out from a chemist’s point of view, assuming those chemicals exist in lemon, peppermint, and Sherry in the first place?
Which leads to the question, are these two chemicals even relevant? Or is there another reaction happening we should be after instead?
Edited by suba (11/05/23 11:05 AM)
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Bardy


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Re: LASH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: suba] 1
#28530974 - 11/05/23 05:42 PM (2 months, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
suba said: I think the input ingredients vary, and matters greatly.
Your heavenly blue might be genetically off from my heavenly blue. Or raised under different conditions
You might be trying grandpa otts, or hbwr (which I’ve heard has more discomfort - possibly more glycosides or other ergopeptine toxins?)
The symbiotic fungus genetics (Periglandula ipomoeae) could vary, or it could produce a different alkaloid distribution based on nutrients or climate or elevation (we may not know).
And then there’s the Sherry wine acetaldehyde content variation per product. And the isoveraldehyde varies on your source of peppermint or lemon. Any of those could have zero or degraded amount.
There’s so many variables. Even if kitchen science works one time, there’s likely other times it won’t work because things vary. Begs the question, if they did work, then what’s the kitchen science to tell potency that I’m actually mixing the right chemicals? There’s some testing science needed here. Just having peppermint something isn’t good enough, I need peppermint with the isoveraldehyde. For example. Fresh mint vs oil may be the answer, but still have the verification problem, etc. does all mint leaves have what I want? Do all lemons? Traeger thinks using synthetic isoveraldehyde is key and you don’t get a change from the kitchen stuff (even though he mentions them), so maybe there’s a clue there…
Then, there’s the chemical kinetics of the reaction, does it even check out from a chemist’s point of view, assuming those chemicals exist in lemon, peppermint, and Sherry in the first place?
Which leads to the question, are these two chemicals even relevant? Or is there another reaction happening we should be after instead?
I’m sure it’s possible some varieties and species have more negative side effects than others, I’m not worried about that though. I can put up with the nausea for a while for the benefits of the trip like I said before.
I just have a problem with people claiming that these adducts are forming without any evidence. The article above provides solid reasoning for why the new adducts are most likely not forming in the conditions described.
And I’m not sure what you mean by “kitchen science” and “testing science”. There is only science done well or done poorly…
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suba
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Re: LASH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: Bardy]
#28530995 - 11/05/23 06:08 PM (2 months, 21 days ago) |
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Kitchen science… I’m referring to a process using materials on hand (as a chef would have access to) as opposed to needing chemicals from a chemical supply or hardware store. My definition. Thought it was obvious and referred to earlier. Whatever. It’s defined now. People call this a Tek
Testing science… I’m referring to a test or procedure we could carry out for these chemicals, like buying some kind of test kit.
Science done right… well… as you say, it has to work either in theory or in practice, verifiable by others (the evidence you refer to). Theory doesn’t have to be understood for it to be repeatable (aspirin works and isn’t understood), if repeatable, we can analyze it and come up with what’s going on in there.
I don’t disagree with you ;-)
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Bardy


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Re: LASH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: suba] 1
#28531093 - 11/05/23 07:44 PM (2 months, 21 days ago) |
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It’s all just science man… but I think I get what you’re saying now. It just needs to be concise and clearly communicated so other people can easily reproduce the experiment. If I did science on the beach I could call it “beach science”… no point in adding the word Beach in my opinion if it’s still good science lol. Seems like the word kitchen implies that it is done to a shitty standard.
This particular experiment Tregar talks about can be summarised as:
Combine LSA with certain essential oil (or lemon juice or whatever) along with acetic acid and the trip is different to plain LSA.
The claim that the trip is subjectively different is the only thing that can be tested by his experiment. The claim about LSx adducts cannot be confirmed or disconfirmed doing this… it’s just a wild guess.
There is a lot of research on aspirin and it seems that they know exactly how it works pharmacologically. We also know roughly how LSA works. It’s like if someone speculated that taking aspirin with lemon juice created a new molecule which had slightly different pain relieving properties, but couldn’t back it up with any evidence. It’s just a baseless claim at that stage. But I get your point.
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tregar
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Re: LASH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: Bardy]
#28539863 - 11/12/23 08:10 AM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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suba said:
Quote:
The keys are Acetaldehyde to form LSH Isoveraldehyde to form LSI
There are several papers linked but you have to dig the thread to find them.
You nailed it. Link to papers below. I was lucky enough to get a bottle of isovaleraldehyde back when it was readily available, see pics page 1. The bottle that was public available was manufactured in India, *mazo* even used to carry it, but now if you search you get message "we are working hard to get it back in stock". Without a source available to people besides chemist, it is now problematic, unless you are willing to go the lemon juice/peppermint tea/peppermint extract route...as these are all sources of limited amounts of isovaleraldehyde.
From post #1, page 1: Special Note #1: 69ron (not me but a friend of mine from long ago, I have no idea what happened to him, but do miss him) once had a thread https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=5733 on forming a potent Lysergamide psychedelic from LSA + peppermint tea. In this thread, you will find at least 5 bad ass reports scattered throughout the 11 pages. Just be careful if using HBWR seeds, as I have mentioned before, there are high amounts of ergometrine in HBWR seeds which cause cramping, vasoconstriction, and even bronchial vasoconstriction when ergometrine (not LSA) is adducted with acetaldehyde and other aldehydes as you will find some reports of this in the thread. If you use HBWR, just keep your dose low. Stick with morning glory seeds if possible, as they contain only trace amounts of ergometrine, see page 17 of the shroomery thread in the middle with pics on how to make the zero nausea MG liquid wine extract to use for your experiments. I prefer to use the pure ISOVALERALDEHYDE chemical found in peppermint whenever I can. At the time 69ron suspected some other unidentified aldehyde in peppermint besides acetaldehyde was responsible for the strong trips, he was right.
Go to page 17 https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27850299/fpart/17/vc/1 to make The ZERO NAUSEA 25g seed (800 seed) morning glory wine with easy steps and pictures, simply decant and drink only what is above the 1/4" layer of particles at the bottom. The wine sits in fridge only a few hours, then all the particles fall to the bottom, and it's ready to use!
The particles at bottom are nauseating to the intestines so only drink the wine above it--zero nausea and a fabulous psychedelic trip. You can also drink this wine with regular LSD for a trip that is WAY BEYOND normal LSD. Way more colorful, way more music enhancing, way more visual and euphoric with divine healing.
This wine can also be used for all your aldehyde experiments like making LSI, super potent, VERY similar to LSD but with a much more natural feel.
See stripper Krystle Cole's CLAVICEPS PASPALI WINE (infects distichum grass, claviceps paspali has same alkaloid profile as the sacred Mesoamerican morning glory) experience in middle of page 20 from the book "Lysergic". Todd Skinner and William Leonard Pickard were famous LSD chemists with the underground bunker. Page 20 also links video of Krystle Cole's "underground LSD palace": https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=28505213&page=0&vc=1#28505213
From post #1 of page 1:
9 more papers can be downloaded here on LSH and LSI, post #11: https://mycotopia.net/topic/112110-1mg-lsa-new-aldehyde-molecule-discovery-results-in-effects-similar-to-100ug-lsd/?p=1507034
Attached File Has the Mystery of the Eleusinian Mysteries been solved .pdf 164.7KB 5 downloads Attached File DunningRobertL1956 (2).pdf 4.77MB 5 downloads Attached File 3-methylbutanal or isovaleraldehyde safety sheet, low in general toxicity after oral exposure.pdf 158.57KB 3 downloads Attached File Chapter5_Excerpt_Peppermint.pdf 483.07KB 3 downloads Attached File The LSA component of claviceps paspali forms LSH when dunked into fermented liquor (wine).pdf 3.29MB 3 downloads Attached File 2016 Polish morning glory study shows LSH and penniclavine two highest alkaloids in MG (3).pdf 1.19MB 5 downloads Attached File 5 Ergot alkaloids in morning glory just as stimulating as LSD in animal experiments, Yui and Yuji Takeo, 1958.pdf 596.64KB 6 downloads Attached File Adduct formation of d-Lysergic Acid Amide or (LSA) and aldehydes.pdf 1.13MB 2 downloads Attached File Tryptophan analogues form adducts by cooperative reaction with aldehydes and alcohols or with aldehydes alone, 1992 Austin.pdf 780.97KB 2 downloads Attached File LSD and its Lysergamide Cousins by LSD scientist Dr. Nichols, Ph.D.pdf [this file is only attached to POST #7 further below of this Shroomery thread only, page 1]
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,145
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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Re: LASH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: tregar]
#28540853 - 11/12/23 08:06 PM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 2,356
Last seen: 2 days, 7 hours
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Re: LASH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: Bardy]
#28546034 - 11/17/23 04:39 AM (2 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Bardy said: Yeah you’re probably right. I haven’t done a large dose of whole seeds in a long time because I’ve generally had better things available…
I do remember having some awesome peaks on LSA without many side effects, they seem to subside for me by mid journey at least. Would have to try them again and make a proper note of it though.
I remember loving them when I was like 18-19. Would put up with that nausea and the cramps for the blissful peak on many occasions haha
I used to consider myself the most dedicated and hardcore psychonaught in existence for putting up with the HBWR side effects just for a trip. And I probably was!
Its embarrassing to reiterate, but it's a lot easier just to vomit into a cup as soon as one feels sick, and drink it back down again! Actually vomit is pretty much the same on the way back down as it was on the way up, so tbh it wasn't nearly as difficult to do (not compared to the raw cactus slime/phlegm I used to drink like a total dolt) as it is to admit to!
No idea why that worked (and is what makes me wonder if this tek might have something/some sort of conversion process bound up with stomach acid/lemon juice etc.) nor why unlike as with other psychedelics the actives in HBWR do not rapidly absorb (though one can feel the effects just not an actual trip).
I think I need to try an extraction of HBWR in lemon juice! These days however I simply don't have the (children) time to be tripping my nuts off all day!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,145
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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Re: LASH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: wolf8312]
#28547298 - 11/18/23 01:44 AM (2 months, 8 days ago) |
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First person for me to ignore. Congratulations
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 2 days, 22 hours
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Re: LASH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: Blue_Lux]
#28547308 - 11/18/23 02:10 AM (2 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
I used to consider myself the most dedicated and hardcore psychonaught in existence for putting up with the HBWR side effects just for a trip. And I probably was!
I did it ike 7 times even though it was a nightmare nearly every single time. Just pure nausea and emotional turmoil. Like BAD. suicidal thoughts bad. That was also a generally bad time in my life
MG was not as bad but in retrospect still feels essentially like a poisoning experience. I was just praying for it to end every time.
Acid. And. Shrooms. Are. Stupid. Cheap. And. Easily. Accessible. Right. Now.
For those who somehow didn't know
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,145
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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Re: LASH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2 [Re: morrowasted]
#28547322 - 11/18/23 02:41 AM (2 months, 8 days ago) |
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Don't agree with me. Surely if something is repeated over and over again it becomes true, as is evidenced by every single moment everywhere now.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
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