KlarnEvil9 said:

I'd have a Thurmann!!!

Cranberry juice is also very acidic, so I imagine it does the same thing as lemon juice / citric acid in terms of converting psilocybin.

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KlarnEvil9 said:

I'd have a Thurmann!!! ...That plus MAOIs means I'm doing it!

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KlarnEvil9 said:

Citric acid coverts psilocybin to psilocin, and the acidulated water will hold the psilocin for longer, as in it doesn't degrade quite as quickly. That conversion makes it hit faster, since your body starts absorbing the psilocin in the mouth/throat/etc. Basically, it helps bypass primary digestion.

My guess is that cranberry juice's acidity performs the same reaction.

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nektar61 said:

KlarnEvil9 said:

Citric acid coverts psilocybin to psilocin, and the acidulated water will hold the psilocin for longer, as in it doesn't degrade quite as quickly. That conversion makes it hit faster, since your body starts absorbing the psilocin in the mouth/throat/etc. Basically, it helps bypass primary digestion.

My guess is that cranberry juice's acidity performs the same reaction.

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Has an actual chemist ever reviewed this, or is it just urban lore.

And do you have the same effect from Lemon tek as I've heard, that it makes it stronger but not as long lasting? (mine wasn't soaked in lemon, just squirted lemon into the tea)

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KlarnEvil9 said:

nektar61 said:

KlarnEvil9 said:

Citric acid coverts psilocybin to psilocin, and the acidulated water will hold the psilocin for longer, as in it doesn't degrade quite as quickly. That conversion makes it hit faster, since your body starts absorbing the psilocin in the mouth/throat/etc. Basically, it helps bypass primary digestion.

My guess is that cranberry juice's acidity performs the same reaction.

---

Has an actual chemist ever reviewed this, or is it just urban lore.

And do you have the same effect from Lemon tek as I've heard, that it makes it stronger but not as long lasting? (mine wasn't soaked in lemon, just squirted lemon into the tea)

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I'm looking for some of the stuff I have read about it, will post links here.

edit - Link  "Apparently, others have also found that a dilute acetic acid solution is an excellent solvent for both psilocin and psilocybin. Not only does the solution completely extract both tryptamines but the solution extracts other interfering substances to a lesser degree. Casale also notes that if one heats the extraction solution of dilute acetic acid to 70 degrees centigrade for ten minutes, then the psilocybin is completely converted by dephosphorylation to psilocin.(5)"

So they used acetic acid, but the principle is the same.

My experience is that lemon tek absolutely comes on faster and has a shorter duration. Probably due to the fact your body doesn't have to convert the psilocybin in the stomach.

I have read that using citric acid to make tea also gives a more complete extraction, but that might or might not be true.

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KlarnEvil9 said:

I took an entire shoebox harvest of Casper (220g fresh) and made a double decoction tea with citric acid. I then put most of it into jars and froze it. I left 1 qt in the fridge for a bit over 24hrs, it was nice and strong. And it retained the qualities of the fresh fruits, which is my favorite.

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Icyurmt said:

As for the salt; psilocybin is a zwitterion and psilocin has a high enough pka (8.47) to ensure its protonated into its conjugate acid by regular water. I believe the various salt forms primarily affect psilocins stability with light and oxidation.

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nektar61 said:

Fun fact: psilocybin and psilocin were first extracted, named, identified, and synthesized by Albert Hofmann. Yes, the LSD creator at Sandoz.

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Icyurmt said:

nektar61 said:

Fun fact: psilocybin and psilocin were first extracted, named, identified, and synthesized by Albert Hofmann. Yes, the LSD creator at Sandoz.

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You may already know, but just to add to this a little as it relates to the earlier conversation; the way Hofmann first identified psilocybin as the active compound was by taste testing/bioessay.

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nektar61 said:

KlarnEvil9 said:

I took an entire shoebox harvest of Casper (220g fresh) and made a double decoction tea with citric acid. I then put most of it into jars and froze it. I left 1 qt in the fridge for a bit over 24hrs, it was nice and strong. And it retained the qualities of the fresh fruits, which is my favorite.

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I made an extract of a bunch of dried, recently harvested B+ my first year. Used one pass of warm ethanol (Everclear), then one pass of water, strained, mixed and boiled it down a bit, it was strong and a BEAUTIFUL purple.

Within a day it was brown and not as strong too.

Was yours purple? Would be fun to sever from a chalice with a few close friends, right after making it.

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Icyurmt said:

[

KlarnEvil9 said:

nektar61 said:

KlarnEvil9 said:

Citric acid coverts psilocybin to psilocin, and the acidulated water will hold the psilocin for longer, as in it doesn't degrade quite as quickly. That conversion makes it hit faster, since your body starts absorbing the psilocin in the mouth/throat/etc. Basically, it helps bypass primary digestion.

My guess is that cranberry juice's acidity performs the same reaction.

---

Has an actual chemist ever reviewed this, or is it just urban lore.

And do you have the same effect from Lemon tek as I've heard, that it makes it stronger but not as long lasting? (mine wasn't soaked in lemon, just squirted lemon into the tea)

---

I'm looking for some of the stuff I have read about it, will post links here.

edit - Link  "Apparently, others have also found that a dilute acetic acid solution is an excellent solvent for both psilocin and psilocybin. Not only does the solution completely extract both tryptamines but the solution extracts other interfering substances to a lesser degree. Casale also notes that if one heats the extraction solution of dilute acetic acid to 70 degrees centigrade for ten minutes, then the psilocybin is completely converted by dephosphorylation to psilocin.(5)"

So they used acetic acid, but the principle is the same.

My experience is that lemon tek absolutely comes on faster and has a shorter duration. Probably due to the fact your body doesn't have to convert the psilocybin in the stomach.

I have read that using citric acid to make tea also gives a more complete extraction, but that might or might not be true.

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Low pH of lemon tek or other acidic extracts like cranberry juice, orange juice, vinegar, etc. co-extracts an acidic phosphatase enzyme from the mushrooms (PsiP) that dephosphorylates psilocybin into psilocin. I’ve been trying to compile sources here:https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27725108

As for the salt; psilocybin is a zwitterion and psilocin has a high enough pka (8.47) to ensure its protonated into its conjugate acid by regular water. I believe the various salt forms primarily affect psilocins stability with light and oxidation.

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nektar61 said:

Icyurmt said:

nektar61 said:

Fun fact: psilocybin and psilocin were first extracted, named, identified, and synthesized by Albert Hofmann. Yes, the LSD creator at Sandoz.

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You may already know, but just to add to this a little as it relates to the earlier conversation; the way Hofmann first identified psilocybin as the active compound was by taste testing/bioessay.

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Another interesting thing about that is how suggestible a straight-up world-class scientists can be with his OEV and CEV. He noted this and seemed maybe even a little embarrassed by that.

In his book, LSD — My Problem Child, (PDF attached), Albert Hofmann, did take shrooms to test, after realizing giving it to a mouse wouldn't give useful data, and giving an unknown drug to a human test subject other than himself could be dangerous. (That is a high level of morality in the lab compared to many! Sasha was the same way, though he and Ann did have a small group of friends who'd hang around and volunteer to take new drugs.)

Hofmann was taking Psilocybe mexicana shrooms cultivated from spores brought back from Mexico, and said he had closed-eye hallucinations of aztec motifs.

"Thirty minutes after my taking the mushrooms, the exterior world began to undergo a strange transformation. Everything assumed a Mexican character. As I was perfectly well
aware that my knowledge of the Mexican origin of the mushroom would lead me to imagine only Mexican scenery, I tried deliberately to look on my environment as I knew
it normally. But all voluntary efforts to look at things in their customary forms and colors proved ineffective.

"Whether my eyes were closed or open, I saw only Mexican motifs and colors. When the doctor supervising the experiment bent over me to check my blood pressure, he was transformed into an Aztec priest and I would not have been astonished if he had drawn an obsidian knife.

"In spite of the seriousness of the situation, it amused me to see how the Germanic face of my colleague had acquired a purely Indian expression."

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Quote:

Huskies said:That's incredible: new idea! Test wild cubensis varieties in a double blind experiment from different regions and catalogue visuals from users, see if the visual component matches geographic or biological realities of the original environment.

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ReverendMyc said:

One thing I want to try is testing some of the dehydrated teas to see how they are holding potency.

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nektar61 said:

ReverendMyc said:

One thing I want to try is testing some of the dehydrated teas to see how they are holding potency.

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Looking forward to results.

I'd be curious how liquid teas hold potency. I don't have the money right now for more tests, car repairs, and not telling you what to do, but that might be a good test.

People have brought it up here and there as a storage method, with and without lemon. (I'd store without lemon, and add lemon when finally drinking of it, if needed.)

My bio assay experience is that they don't hold potency well. A week later maybe 2/3 the day I made them.

I assume that making the tea introduces oxygen that is kept out in whole dried shrooms, degrading the actives.

Tea I made was actually a tincture, B+ shrooms, when I first got here.

I did one pass with hot water, one pass with warm Everclear (ethanol), mixed, got warm on water bath to evaporate a bit.

Was VERY blue, almost purple, looked like magical elixir. (I really wanted to serve to friends in a goblet. haha).

Within a day it was brown. (I know bluing has nothing to do with potency, but loss of both is oxygenation related) and a week later had lost some potency.

Some people make tea and freeze it, I assume that would degrade potency less fast, since chemical reactions happen less in cold.

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