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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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OOBEs and reality
    #2922271 - 07/23/04 11:56 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

One subject that I see addressed here a lot is the subject of Out of Body Experiences. Many people claim this has happened to them. I once read a figure like 50 to 60% of all people according to some ancient survey I once read about. I can believe this because I have heard these stories from people of all walks of life. I myself have had 3 of these dissociative experiences. Twice while sleeping and once while fully concious and engaged in a conversation, but fried on 6 doses of LSD. They only lasted a few minutes each which gave me no time to validate the objective reality of them. I am left in some doubt as to the reality of these experiences. I try to be always a little sceptical, though there are some who say I am not sceptical enough, but I like to keep an open mind as well. I would like to believe that these experiences are more than subjective, but until I see (read experience) proof the jury is out. I do feel the name "OOBE" is somewhat slanted in it's meaning. Has anyone had an objectively verifiable OOBE? I would like responses from skeptics and true believers alike.


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OfflineTheDarkSideof_Paco
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Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2922629 - 07/24/04 02:47 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I have read accounts in the book Beyond the Body by Susan J. Blackmore of two people astral traveling, meeting eachother and after waking remembering every aspect and their stories they claim concurred with one another. Interesting...


--------------------
"In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to be afraid, to hate, so we will rally behind them. And if they do not have a real enemy, they will invent one in order to mobilize us."

Thich Nhat Hanh


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Anonymous

Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2922695 - 07/24/04 03:18 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

i tell you what man, i have been getting better and better in the past 2 years, and i have visited friends a couple times, and verified that YES they were doing what i saw them doing.  Now that means nothing to nobody but me, i know.  So when as i get better, i will, because i truly care, try to visit you and others who need that "visit" to provide some proof that one can travel out of body.  If there is anyone else here who is advanced enough to do this, you should help these souls out.  Even though they are skeptical now, they are still reaching out for the truth of the stuff they are hearing so much about.  It could be the extra step they need.

but dude, it could be a long time, but i know i can do it eventually, sometime in this life lol.  I just need more experience, im young.  i bet when im your age i will be able to write my own book.  :shocked: :wink: :heart:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: ]
    #2922720 - 07/24/04 03:31 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Do not think I want to be a disbeleiver as I think that OOBEs are a cool concept. As I stated I have had this experience before, BUT I don't want to assume it was objectively real because I don't know. If you can ever visit me and verify one thing about me by all means I would love to hear it...hell I'll even give you an address.


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2922745 - 07/24/04 03:42 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I have had experiences consistent with OBEs but I am unsure if I was literally out of my body or not. I think when you are talking about this kind of phenomena that normal space-time modes of language go out the window.

For example you can't really say "I was out of body X minutes." since time cannot exist without matter as I understand it. Any experience you have in the non-physical state is timeless.

You also can't say "I was here or there." There is no there.There are only states of consciousness in this realm, not what we think of as places. My experiences with OBEs led me to agree with those who say that our true self(which we glimpse during OBEs) is ONE with all of the universe..so we don't really go anywhere we just bring to mind a section of reality where we were all along.

So OBEs really challenge our sense of reality in many unexpected ways.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: Jellric]
    #2922768 - 07/24/04 03:53 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I have heard this argument before, but there still needs to be criteria to adhere to to determine if it is an objectively verifiable phenomena. I realize that this is not easy or this would be science we would be discussing. Many people claim that the reality in OOBEs differs from our "waking" reality. This would tend to make the OOBE seem more of just a dissociative state instead of a spiritual experience.


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Anonymous

Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: Jellric]
    #2922783 - 07/24/04 03:59 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

man, that was so well thought out and wonderfully stated. i agree.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2922800 - 07/24/04 04:03 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Enough theories, has anyone got any stories concerning verifying OOBEs. I promise I will hold back from attacking their credibility. I'm just interested.


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Anonymous

Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: Jellric]
    #2922803 - 07/24/04 04:04 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

oh, and also, i want to say that any spiritual experience you have is actually out of body. i mean, you may still be in the body, but like on shrooms when you connect with your true self, you are exploring that true self. so you are totally experiencing your soul and spirit, your body is just a vehicle for YOU. how ridiculous does it get to have a body when on high doses of shrooms? for me its like man, "i gotta actualy walk down stairs?" how pointless. "i gotta take a piss, how inconvenient"...etc. lol


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: ]
    #2922826 - 07/24/04 04:32 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, that's why I actually look forward to my death as crazy as it sounds. I've been in that state before (although I wasn't physically dead of course). People smile when babies are born and cry at funerals- they've got it backwards. Being free of gravity and able to think and feel a hundred times more powerfully/clearly aint' bad! And that's just the tip of the iceberg..

I'm not rushing things, but I know for myself that something great awaits us after death. It makes the difficulties of life more bearable and I so wish I could somehow give that knowledge to everyone on the planet, but it's something you have to experience for yourself.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Anonymous

Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: Jellric]
    #2922840 - 07/24/04 04:45 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

fuck yeah man, your not alone, i once again, agree whole heartedly.  :heart:


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OfflineAldous
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Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: TheDarkSideof_Paco]
    #2925991 - 07/25/04 03:04 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TheDarkSideof_Paco said:
I have read accounts in the book Beyond the Body by Susan J. Blackmore of two people astral traveling, meeting eachother and after waking remembering every aspect and their stories they claim concurred with one another. Interesting...


Hehe, that's funny, that must be an old Susan Blackmore book. I just posted this here in a similar thread, it links to a text where she explains why she thinks OBE's are not "real":
Quote:

I've never had an OBE myself, but I'm interested in the subject and have researched it some. I try to keep an open mind about it, and I'm very interested in finding out if you can bring back info or knowledge you didn't have before (I don't think it's been done in a controlled environment, but I may be wrong). While researching, I stumbled upon this interesting account about the reality or unreality of OBE's. Kinda long, but very interesting. I'm not saying she's right, but at least she's done some very thorough research on it.

Thoughts?





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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: Jellric]
    #2926718 - 07/25/04 07:34 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

>>>I know for myself that something great awaits us after death. It makes the difficulties of life more bearable and I so wish I could somehow give that knowledge to everyone on the planet, but it's something you have to experience for yourself.<<<

I think most of us have experienced that feeling. Its just how you responded that is different to I. Logic or intuition which do you follow? I choose the crazy route that tries to incorporate both.


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: Ego Death]
    #2926742 - 07/25/04 07:48 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Hopefully I use both as well. That is the goal anyway.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Anonymous

Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: Aldous]
    #2926748 - 07/25/04 07:51 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Hehe, that's funny, that must be an old Susan Blackmore book. I just posted this here in a similar thread, it links to a text where she explains why she thinks OBE's are not "real":




ive been a skeptic myself before, and even when i could have obes i was still skeptical. but i had that openmindedness that some of you skeptical people have right now. and it was enough. like when i would get out i would test some of the things i have heard of to PROVE it to myself, like floating through material objects, im like shit that sounds a lil out there, tried it myself and was like well i be god damned its true. im still testing/experimenting. STILL. its the only way to know things for sure, experience is the best teacher, fuck reading, just try shit out for yourself. those of you that have what you call now, "sleep paralysis" have the upper hand. Obe's have got to be real, ive watched people do things, and asked them about it and they verified it to have happened and i also feel their fear of how the fuck did you know that you crazy fucker you. hahah, i get a kick out it. so obe's are a psychic ability, one method of psychicness.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: ]
    #2927094 - 07/25/04 10:42 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Lets say that OBEs are real, with objective verification possible. That does not mean it is your soul leaving the body. It could be a type of clarvoiance. It really has no bearing on whether there is life after death...so I wouldn't be in such a big hurry to find out.


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Anonymous

Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2927348 - 07/26/04 12:09 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

well, i personally know there is life after death too. It could be a possibility yoru right, but nahhhhh, hell no. like i said, i slammed in my body plenty of times. and saw my body laying in bed while out of it. as much proof i need. and when i say SLAMMING back in, i aint playing around. lol, its crazy as fuck, it doesnt hurt though, its just a ride.


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OfflineDigs
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Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2927360 - 07/26/04 12:16 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

shift in perspective, fun :wink:


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OfflineTheDarkSideof_Paco
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Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: Aldous]
    #2927435 - 07/26/04 12:48 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Aldous said:
Quote:

TheDarkSideof_Paco said:
I have read accounts in the book Beyond the Body by Susan J. Blackmore of two people astral traveling, meeting eachother and after waking remembering every aspect and their stories they claim concurred with one another. Interesting...


Hehe, that's funny, that must be an old Susan Blackmore book. I just posted this here in a similar thread, it links to a text where she explains why she thinks OBE's are not "real":
Quote:

I've never had an OBE myself, but I'm interested in the subject and have researched it some. I try to keep an open mind about it, and I'm very interested in finding out if you can bring back info or knowledge you didn't have before (I don't think it's been done in a controlled environment, but I may be wrong). While researching, I stumbled upon this interesting account about the reality or unreality of OBE's. Kinda long, but very interesting. I'm not saying she's right, but at least she's done some very thorough research on it.

Thoughts?








I simply was stating that two test subjects that she wrote about in her book said they had this experience. I did not state that she thought this was proof that they were real. Sorry if thats what you thought


--------------------
"In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to be afraid, to hate, so we will rally behind them. And if they do not have a real enemy, they will invent one in order to mobilize us."

Thich Nhat Hanh


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: OOBEs and reality [Re: ]
    #2929584 - 07/26/04 07:54 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Since you're an 'initiate', for lack of a better word, do you have tips for anyone interested in projecting? Like a step by step program or something, exercises to try perhaps?


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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