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Re: Spore cleaning without a centrifuge or agar [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #29196290 -

Smellyhobbit said:
I haven’t gone through post by post, but I’m going to be throwing some swabs in baggies on a dehydrator for a couple of hours today. See if I can clean it up a little. I’ll post results when I get them 🤘




Gotta ask, what temp are you running your dehydrator at?  All I have is a plug n play nesco, 160f only.


-Kingboomer


--------------------


I'm just a clown dancing to the sins of mankind.

-Captain Spaulding

Back in business - ICBM 2.0
Cake wars III

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Re: Spore cleaning without a centrifuge or agar [Re: kingboomer] * 1
    #29196408 -

I set it to 140° for 2 hours. Reasonably I think I could have put it to 150°.


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
The 7 Edicts of Mushroom Cultivation as Decreed by Smellyhobbit

:kodama:


Anyone can get a canopy. But can you get what you want?

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Re: Spore cleaning without a centrifuge or agar [Re: Smellyhobbit] * 1
    #29196415 -

Smellyhobbit said:
I set it to 140° for 2 hours. Reasonably I think I could have put it to 150°.




My thought is doing 1ml single shots at 30 60 and 90 minutes at 160°, I can always break out some homebrew gear and make believe I'm mashing in too lol.


-Kingboomer


--------------------


I'm just a clown dancing to the sins of mankind.

-Captain Spaulding

Back in business - ICBM 2.0
Cake wars III

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Re: Spore cleaning without a centrifuge or agar [Re: kingboomer] * 1
    #29199296 -

Got this in the process now.  All my data is here:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29199266


-Kingboomer


--------------------


I'm just a clown dancing to the sins of mankind.

-Captain Spaulding

Back in business - ICBM 2.0
Cake wars III

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Re: Spore cleaning without a centrifuge or agar [Re: kingboomer]
    #29203640 -

Update

Germination in the control jar.  It's a bitch to get a decent pic and it's faint, it's there tho.  Nothing yet on the test subjects.


-Kingboomer


--------------------


I'm just a clown dancing to the sins of mankind.

-Captain Spaulding

Back in business - ICBM 2.0
Cake wars III

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Re: Spore cleaning without a centrifuge or agar [Re: kingboomer]
    #29203942 -

Would putting spores in grain have less of a chance for germination than if I just used agar? My control while contaminated did fully colonize my jar while my test of 170f at 1hour have no growth after weeks.

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Re: Spore cleaning without a centrifuge or agar [Re: syllable]
    #29204047 -

I've only done spore to grain 1 time when I did my first grow. I had 3 out of 4 grain bags germinate. 1 did not do anything, even after weeks of sitting. 1 was contaminated beyond use and 2 were good. With agar I always get germination unless contamination overtakes the plate but even then I usual get a little myc on it. That said I would say agar has a better germination rate in my limited experience with going straight to grain.

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Re: Spore cleaning without a centrifuge or agar [Re: kingboomer] * 1
    #29206619 -

Final results

Dead.  I'm certain this will work with a larger sample size and/or lower temps.  I might be able to attempt this again soon with different equipment than what I used this round.


-Kingboomer


--------------------


I'm just a clown dancing to the sins of mankind.

-Captain Spaulding

Back in business - ICBM 2.0
Cake wars III

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Re: Spore cleaning without a centrifuge or agar [Re: kingboomer] * 1
    #29206863 -

So it goes.

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Re: Spore cleaning without a centrifuge or agar [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #29206865 -

Round 2 happening within the next few days.


-Kingboomer


--------------------


I'm just a clown dancing to the sins of mankind.

-Captain Spaulding

Back in business - ICBM 2.0
Cake wars III

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Spore cleaning without a centrifuge or agar [Re: kingboomer]
    #29206906 -

I just repeated my IP experiment yesterday.

8 samples of 4 crosses, one in distilled water, another in a mild LC solution, in pp5 containers wrapped in foil, 45 mins with my agar.

Sterilization pouch with tools in the IP and a control inside a pp5 container wrapped in foil both confirmed sterilization.

Tbh I used a much larger spore print last time, but I want to test for a lower limit as well.


--------------------
I call them Huskies cause they Mush!


Huskies' Grimoire
The Official Wild Cubensis Thread
Easy Instant Pot Agar
Let's Talk Cowtek

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Re: Spore cleaning without a centrifuge or agar [Re: Huskies] * 1
    #29207078 -

Screw it, I got started today 😁


Spore pasteurization 2.0 .


-Kingboomer


--------------------


I'm just a clown dancing to the sins of mankind.

-Captain Spaulding

Back in business - ICBM 2.0
Cake wars III

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Re: Spore cleaning without a centrifuge or agar [Re: kingboomer] * 5
    #29207798 -

I have some additional data. My last attempt netted a bunch of bacteria at 140 F and no cubensis mycelium on any plate. Refresh your memory Here. Even weeks later none of the plates at 150 F for 30 or 45 minutes, or any of the plates at 160 F have any growth.

I made some adjustments this time around. I used fresh spores collected the day before I made the syringes. I also divided my spore solution into 5mL syringes to more accurately replicate actual use case. These were then bagged and run in the dehydrator at 150 F for 30, 45 & 60 minutes, and at 160 F for 5, 10 & 15 minutes.





At 7 days the control plate demonstrates bacteria, mold, and what appears to be cubensis mycelium. Fresh spores for the win!

Unfortunately the rest of the plates don’t give me much hope for this technique. If you remember last time I had lots of bacteria at 150 F for 15 minutes. Now with known good spore solution 150 F for 30 minutes and longer show no growth at all. Bacteria is cooked, but so are the spores.







The plates I ran at 160 F show mixed growth of bacteria and cube mycelium at the short 5 minutes run time, but no growth at all at 10 and 15 minutes.







At this point I don’t think I’ll be pursuing this further. It seems the line between killing bacteria and killing cube spores is rather fine. I was surprised by this. I was sure I had germinated spores from a dehydrated fruit. Perhaps dehydrated spores are better able to tolerate the heat? Unfortunately that doesn’t bode well for spores in a syringe. I’ll be following along to see everyone else’s results.

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Re: Spore cleaning without a centrifuge or agar [Re: RoscoeReturns] * 1
    #29216521 -

I'm calling it.  No growth after 10 days in any of the pucks.  This is something I may revisit once I'm settled at my new place, but for now I'm wrapping it up.


-Kingboomer


--------------------


I'm just a clown dancing to the sins of mankind.

-Captain Spaulding

Back in business - ICBM 2.0
Cake wars III

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Spore cleaning without a centrifuge or agar [Re: RoscoeReturns] * 1
    #29216562 -

RoscoeReturns said:
At this point I don’t think I’ll be pursuing this further. It seems the line between killing bacteria and killing cube spores is rather fine. I was surprised by this. I was sure I had germinated spores from a dehydrated fruit. Perhaps dehydrated spores are better able to tolerate the heat? Unfortunately that doesn’t bode well for spores in a syringe. I’ll be following along to see everyone else’s results.



The shape of the cap and gills probably creates a few safe-zones from high heat. A cap could easily have a billion spores, so even just a few surviving is enough.

Actually, if the cap was facing the fan, maybe they wouldn't get the full on heat blast, just get toasty. Either way, a water solution is going to be a much more uniform environment.

There could be a genetic aspect as well related to Hydrophobins, which are proteins on spores and mycelium that do many things, and providing heat resistance is one of them. These are based on genetics, so the amount of them is not uniform across.

AI provided sources and summary of the heat resistance benefits of hydrophobins.

Quote:
Water Retention and Repellency - Scientific studies confirm that hydrophobins create water-repellent layers on fungal surfaces. These proteins can "self-assemble into stable monolayers" at interfaces and change surface wettability properties. This hydrophobic barrier helps prevent dehydration during heat stress by controlling water movement.


Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-42705-w
Structural Integrity Maintenance - Hydrophobins contain disulfide bonds that provide structural stability. These bonds help maintain the integrity of fungal cell walls even at elevated temperatures, preventing collapse of cellular structures.


Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-19458-0
Thermal Char Formation - The cysteine-rich protein components of mycelium (specifically hydrophobins) contain disulfide bonds that break down at high temperatures to generate char-promoting hydrogen disulfide (H₂S) molecules. This char formation creates a protective layer against heat transfer.


Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-19458-0
Fire Retardant Properties - Studies show that mycelium has significantly lower combustion propensity compared to synthetic materials like PMMA and PLA. The presence of hydrophobins contributes to this natural fire resistance.


Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-36032-9
Heat Stress Adaptation - Research has shown that certain fungi can adapt to stressful conditions, with some hydrophobin gene expressions helping with "oxidative, acid or heat stress". This suggests that hydrophobins play a role in overall stress resilience including heat tolerance.


Source: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/microbiology/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2019.00751/full
Class Differences in Heat Stability - Class I hydrophobins are specifically "resistant to detergents and high temperatures," while Class II hydrophobins are less stable. This demonstrates specialized evolution for heat protection.


Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-42705-w




--------------------
I call them Huskies cause they Mush!


Huskies' Grimoire
The Official Wild Cubensis Thread
Easy Instant Pot Agar
Let's Talk Cowtek

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Re: Spore cleaning without a centrifuge or agar [Re: Huskies] * 4
    #29376133 -

Bumping this thread so I don't lose it again 😂

I'm diving back into this again but it'll be coupled with serial dilution and a bigger focus on actual dormant, wild spores. So basically dirty and not willing to germinate 😂

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Re: Spore cleaning without a centrifuge or agar [Re: PhenoDreamers] * 2
    #29389625 -

Mold contaminated syringe:



Running @ 150F for 2 hours in a food dehydrator. Also have a bacterial syringe running side by side.

Edited by The Tralfamadorian (11/02/25 09:52 PM)

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Re: Spore cleaning without agar or centrifuge [Re: The Tralfamadorian]
    #29390151 -

Both Pheno and Smelly seem to be getting decent results with this. Looking forward to seeing what happens with the above post.

@Rosco: perhaps fresh spores were the issue?

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Re: Spore cleaning without agar or centrifuge [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #29390231 -

Stipe-n Cap said:
Both Pheno and Smelly seem to be getting decent results with this. Looking forward to seeing what happens with the above post.

@Rosco: perhaps fresh spores were the issue?



Meaning the fresh spores are more susceptible to heat damage than older spores? That’s possible. Older dry spores may survive a heat cycle better than the freshies. Maybe I’ll try this again at some point with not fresh, but also not ancient spores. I do think this is an interesting idea, I just don’t know how useful it is to me. I mostly grow known good culture, and don’t mess around with spores that often.

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Re: Spore cleaning without agar or centrifuge [Re: RoscoeReturns] * 4
    #29390240 -

Imo, spores should be  allowed a little while to dry anyway. I never use spores unless they’ve had about 24 hours to dry on the swab.

The spores I used were on swabs made from a wild print. Went from pure bacteria to clean myc in one dehydrator cycle. Those are now on their F2. For wild genetics, it worked like a charm.


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
The 7 Edicts of Mushroom Cultivation as Decreed by Smellyhobbit

:kodama:


Anyone can get a canopy. But can you get what you want?

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Shop: Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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