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OfflineSource
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Carl Sagan
    #2911152 - 07/21/04 03:43 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Anyone else here watch the "Cosmos" series? It was created by Carl Sagan and included something like 12 episodes. It would always start off with this really cool music (Vangelis, Heaven and Hell), then Carl would say "The Cosmos is all that is or ever was or ever will be."

Carl was the perfect teacher. He was eloquent, charismatic, knowledgeable and inspired. He helped me understand that the universe is beautiful. He ushered me into a new level of being...the logical being.

I have since been ushered beyond logic, but without Carl I never would have been ready. I would have rotted as a fundamentalist.

Thanks Carl!

Did anyone else have a similar 'awakening' from watching COSMOS? An awakening into the level of logic and reasoning and the beauty of the natural world?


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


Edited by Source (07/21/04 12:59 PM)


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Source]
    #2911214 - 07/21/04 04:21 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

It has been a while, but I too have seen the series.
I would like to watch it again on DVD..dunno if it's available.

But yes, he did have a profound impact on me as well. Even though his approach was not spiritual, he was very good at conveying a sense of reverance for creation. He is a good example of someone who is spiritual without really having an overtly religious view on life.


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Source]
    #2911234 - 07/21/04 04:45 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I did not see the series...but read the book about 15 years ago (I think). An excellent book by an excellent author...but it came a little too late for me. By that point my eyes had already been opened to the glory of the Universe and all which exists within it.

It was my family's first microwave oven that flipped some switch inside my psyche: I watched bubbles form in a glass of water...watched the water boil furiously...then opened the door and put my hand in the oven to see that the only thing hot was the water itself.

Thanks for bringing up that little memory of mine, Source! It's been a long time since I've thought about the event which has had a direct effect on every waking (and sleeping) moment of my life since!


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Invisiblephalloidin

Registered: 07/03/04
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Source]
    #2911240 - 07/21/04 04:50 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I saw one episode a while back on PBS, they played some Pink Floyd music while showing some cosmic visuals. I always wondered if Carl Sagan was perhaps indulging in some mind altering substances. While I haven't read Contact, the movie had some definite parallels to my own DMT experiences. Not so much into the actual experience seen in the film, but into the reaction to the experience.


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: phalloidin]
    #2911243 - 07/21/04 04:52 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

If he did any drugs I'm not aware of it.

It would have been fun to smoke billions and billions of bowls with him.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Source]
    #2911256 - 07/21/04 05:03 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I saw Sagan being interviewed mere weeks before his demise. He told the interviewer that he believed he would make a full recovery from his cancer even though his neck was the size of my wrist and death was stamped on his forehead.

Seems even great minds succumb to self-deception and denial.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Swami]
    #2911409 - 07/21/04 07:56 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

"Seems even great minds succumb to self-deception and denial."

His body succumbed to death, not even great minds can escape it.
I don't think he was in denial, he just had faith in his recovery. Too bad mind and body are so bound in this reality/dimension.
Anyway, C. Sagan was an inspiration to me when i was 7 years old. Somehow, he awakened and transformed many kids of my generation to understand the greatness of the universe, it was like a natural mind expanding experience.... mind expanding, i've heard about it somewhere :wink:

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Jellric]
    #2911574 - 07/21/04 10:17 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Jellric said:
If he did any drugs I'm not aware of it.

It would have been fun to smoke billions and billions of bowls with him.





I do believe I read an interview with his wife after he died and she did confirm the fact that Sagan was a cannabis user.

One of his colleagues also recounted the story of Sagan asking him for a joint for the next day, because he had important thinking to do.

apparently sagan's canabis use was something he kept a secret in order to protect his academic reputation.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


Edited by DoctorJ (07/21/04 10:41 AM)


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2911622 - 07/21/04 10:36 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Sagan's work is like mushrooms for kids ...

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Invisiblespock
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Source]
    #2911681 - 07/21/04 11:03 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

"Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home, That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every 'superstar,' every 'supreme leader,' every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. ... There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

-"You Are Here," Pale Blue Dot, pp. 8-9.


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OfflineSource
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Jellric]
    #2911985 - 07/21/04 12:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Actually it is available on DVD. I bought the entire collection in the hopes that when my kids are ready they will have a similar experience from watching it. I don't know if it's practical or not, but I am willing to loan out my set to you or anyone else who would like to watch it.


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What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineSource
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: MAIA]
    #2911990 - 07/21/04 12:53 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

"Sagan's work is like mushrooms for kids ..."

That's exactly what it was like for me!


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OfflineSource
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: trendal]
    #2912000 - 07/21/04 12:58 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, it's kinda cool to look back on our lives and remember those times when something sort of 'clicked'...and changed us forever. I think it's great that you clicked and "opened to the glory of the Universe" based on your own observations (microwave).


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OfflineSource
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: spock]
    #2912026 - 07/21/04 01:07 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

That's a brilliant quote.

For those of you who don't know, the picture Carl is talking about is a picture of earth taken by a probe on it's way outside of the solar system. Carl convinced the engineers to have the probe turn around and take a snapshot of the earth before it left. The result is a view of earth from further away than had ever been seen before.

In addition to awakening me to the universe, passages such as this woke me up to our place on this planet and in this universe and to the responsibilities that entails.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Swami]
    #2912200 - 07/21/04 02:03 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

There is no self delusion in hope. If you think this man was self-deluding then read his book "The Demon Haunted World"...you'll love it...particularly you. It was written during his struggle with his illness.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2912281 - 07/21/04 02:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

As usual seems I am one of the few here that actually uses words as they were defined. Completely twisting words makes communicatuion nearly impossible as this game has no rules and can be bent any which way.

Webster:

delusion: A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence.


All of the physical (his appearance) and medical (his blood and liver counts, etc.) and historical evidence (the experience of others) were contrary to his belief.

And we can also see (anecdotally) how ineffectual his hope was in affecting the remission.


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OfflineSource
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Swami]
    #2912401 - 07/21/04 03:16 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, maybe he was delusional about getting well, maybe not. In the epilogue to "Billions and Billions", Ann his wife recounts his final days.

"This is a deathwatch", Carl told me calmly. "I'm going to die." "No", I protested. "You're going to beat this, just as you have before when it looked hopeless."..."Well, we'll see who's right about this one."

A this point he doesn't seem delusional to me. Maybe when you saw him interviewed he was still holding on to the possibility that he may recover...BASED ON THE EVIDENCE OF HIS PREVIOUS RECOVERIES . At this point however, he knows the evidence of a possible recovery are getting slimmer as his health slips even further.

Ann continues...

Contrary to the fantasies of the fundamentalists, there was no deathbed conversion, no last minute refuge taken in a comforting vision of a heaven or an afterlife. For Carl, what mattered most was what was true, not merely what would make us feel better.

I demand a retraction of your "Carl was delusional" post, Damn it!


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Swami]
    #2912414 - 07/21/04 03:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Many studies have shown that hope or belief has a beneficial effect upon people who are ill.
So Carl was right and proper to have hope that he would recover, even if it proved to be unfounded in his case.

What would you have him do? Have his grave dug for him?


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Jellric]
    #2912453 - 07/21/04 03:33 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Many studies ...
OK, reference three please.

What would you have him do?
He was free to do whatever he liked (as I am free to comment on his comments), but this had nothing to do with his "doing", but his denial. As a scientist, the signs were very clear.


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Carl Sagan [Re: Swami]
    #2912550 - 07/21/04 04:03 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

OK, reference three please.

These studies come out all the time, and if you keep up with the news I'm sure you've seen them. This is well known. Positivity helps people recover from illnesses faster. If you want I'll find some or you can google.

As a scientist, the signs were very clear.

His training was in astronomy, not medicine.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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