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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Project Conception/Ideas [Re: Hooty]
    #3181928 -

Nope. A pump? A pump to pump water wouldn't use up all the energy of a bunch of generators. It's hardly impossible, or even that hard. Quit doing so many drugs.

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Project Conception/Ideas [Re: Anonymous]
    #3182159 -

Hooty is right, paradis. The Laws of Thermodynamics prohibit the idea you have from working. You would find that it would take more power to pump water to a certain height than you could extract from water falling from that height.

Ie: "you can't get something for nothing". Why do you think all hydroelectric power plants use water that falls naturally from a height, instead of pumping it up there themselves?

Your best bet is to find land on a sloap with a stream running downhill. There are small turbines available which can extract nearly 100% of the energy from the falling water, and I'm sure you could get a few kW from even a small stream if you have enough height.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Project Conception/Ideas [Re: trendal]
    #3182458 -

trendal said:
Hooty is right, paradis. The Laws of Thermodynamics prohibit the idea you have from working. You would find that it would take more power to pump water to a certain height than you could extract from water falling from that height.


Exactly.


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Project Conception/Ideas [Re: Anno]
    #3182881 -

Anno and Trendal are right about Hooty being right. Free energy scams have been around as long as the power companies have. Some of them are really funny! I liked the one at http://www.fuellesspower.com/ for an "electrolyser fuel cell" that can "split water atoms".

This sounds like an interesting project you guys have. I looked into micro-hydroelectric systems a while back for a stream on my own property.

I estimated the flow rate of the stream at 100 gallons per minute using the bucket method. I checked the grade with a transit and found 50 feet of available head from an old mill pond to a possible generator site downstream. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, my calculations showed 0.9 kW of potential power for this flow rate at this height. The manufacturers that make these micro-hydro systems claim to achieve a little bit better than 50% overall efficiency for a correctly sized turbine and generator. At 50% efficiency, the stream could produce power at a rate of 0.45 kW, which should total about 324 kWH per month. On my last electric bill, the power company charged me 0.086 $/kWH. So if I could use or store electricity at full load, my system might save me 28$ per month at the most.

The turbine, generator, and control valve cost around 5,000$. PVC pipe to supply the water is around another 1,000$. Weekly rental for a backhoe or track excavator to bury the pipe is about 1,000$. My biggest problem is that the hillside is rocky enough prevent digging over some pretty long sections.

After evaluating this much I kind of lost interest. Maybe someday I will look into it again.

Let me know if you guys have any ideas for burying/covering water pipe on a rocky mountainside.

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Project Conception/Ideas [Re: Anno]
    #3182955 -

Here is a picture to give you an idea of the type of stream and the conditions I was talking about.


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Re: Living Off the Grid - Project Conception/Ideas [Re: Hooty]
    #3183224 -

Oh, well excuse me then. Seemed like a good idea to me.

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Project Conception/Ideas [Re: Anonymous]
    #3183556 -

Don?t worry man you?re not the first person to have this idea....



--------------------
Without love in the dream
It will never come true

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Project Conception/Ideas [Re: Hooty]
    #3543691 -

I've been looking into living off the grid for a while now. Cob is deffinatley the way to go. I got some books you should check out if you are interested.
The Hand-Sculpted House: A Philosophical and Practical Guide to Building a Cob Cottage (The Real Goods Solar Living Book)
by Ianto Evans, Michael G. Smith, Linda Smiley, Deanne Bednar

Everything you need to know about building a house of cob.

And for getting the land to begin with, check out:
How to Buy Land Cheap
by Edward Preston

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Stage 1: Project Conception/Ideas *DELETED* [Re: trendal]
    #3544455 -

Post deleted by poke smot!

Reason for deletion: x


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Re: Living Off the Grid - Stage 1: Project Conception/Ideas [Re: poke smot!]
    #3544703 -

How about using a Biogas Generator (uses methane) to produce electricity? all you need is lots of animal dung which im sure farmers would be willing to give you.

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Stage 1: Project Conception/Ideas [Re: nick_hopton]
    #3545029 -

I heard alot of people talking about living off the grid and selling power back to the power company..

This is against the law and for a good reason.

At times the power company will kill the power for some kind of major repair, beacause of severe weather ect.. When these people go to fix the lines they assume the power has been shut off, when infact you are still pumping power into the live grid..

Their may be ways around this(im no expert) but this was an issue that I came across..
At my house we are not 100% self sufficiant but were better than most.. Thick window blinds, and nice big wood heater which we also use for cooking. We have experimented with wind power but the government (Canada, saskatchewan) seems to have a chunk of coal up there ass.. We have 2 small generatorse atm that power lights on our deck.. But its just direct power so they only work when its windy.. and who hangs out on the deck when its windy :S..

Good luck to everyone in there self sufficiant homes.

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Stage 1: Project Conception/Ideas [Re: Legoulash]
    #3558906 -

Rah said:
I heard alot of people talking about living off the grid and selling power back to the power company..

This is against the law and for a good reason.

At times the power company will kill the power for some kind of major repair, beacause of severe weather ect.. When these people go to fix the lines they assume the power has been shut off, when infact you are still pumping power into the live grid..



It's not against the law, but most provinces require that any power going back into the grid meets their standards (easily met) and their safety requirments (not so easily met) that includes an automatic switch that prevents your power from going into the grid when there is a power outage.

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Project Conception/Ideas [Re: spud]
    #3578152 -

This is my idea for a gravity waterflow cob water heater:

The water inlet and outlets are regulated by valves. You'll have to fill the tank up with water then build te fire to heat it. The tank is a metal drum/barrel. There is a cavity underneath it for the fire and the entire thing is encased in a thick layer of cob to help retain heat and keep the water warm long after the wood burns up. I plan to line the fire chamber with stones as well.



click the picture below:

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Project Conception/Ideas [Re: Anonymous]
    #3578172 -

In theory yes, in reality...well....

The thing is, you have to have all your system filled with water, and no air.
This is gonna be difficult if the system is not under pressure. If you have air in your system, the water won't circulate. You would have to find a way to fill up your system without air.

Now, if you have a pressurized system, the whole thing won't work as illustrated, since it can not be open to the outside the was it is now.....
So, all sorts of problems arise....


--------------------
Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Project Conception/Ideas [Re: Anno]
    #3578178 -

Quote:
The thing is, you have to have all your system filled with water, and no air.


Why? Why could I not just open the IN valve and fill it to how much water I wanted then close the IN valve. Heat it up. Then just open the OUT valve and let the hot water fall?

Quote:
If you have air in your system, the water won't circulate.

It doesnt need to circulate. It just needs to be heated up and then you turn the valve and let the hot water fall out into the hot water pipes.

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Project Conception/Ideas [Re: Anonymous]
    #3578195 -

> It doesnt need to circulate.

I see....
So you are going to use a pump to bring it back?


--------------------
Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Project Conception/Ideas [Re: Anno]
    #3578205 -

Now I get it: this is just meant to be a water heater? Like a big pot?
Sure, why not.

I thought you were going to use it to heat your house........


--------------------
Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Project Conception/Ideas [Re: Anno]
    #3578209 -

Ah, okay.
Correct, this is simply a water heater.

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Project Conception/Ideas [Re: Anonymous]
    #3582669 -

Wouldn't another pipe/pathway to the fire for air flow allow for a hotter fire? It would feed it more oxygen. Just a thought.

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Re: Living Off the Grid - Project Conception/Ideas [Re: spud]
    #3582681 -

Yeah, that actually be pretty essential. You know, I'm sure I missed some shit. Thanks for the input.

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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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