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OfflineTrique
Psilocybe Junkie
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 61
Loc: Chocolate Town, Pennsylva...
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Outstanding Revolution
    #2821628 - 06/23/04 05:50 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I've been cultivating for quite a while. It hasn't been long that I've been communicating with the mushroom world, but I think I finally have my contribution.

From my experiences, I've read tons and tons of people's observations, techniques, all that non sense and I've of course developed my own inferences.

Mushrooms have been growing in this world much longer than the general human race (as far back as Sumerians) which is one of the earliest civilizations we know. Obviously, mushrooms go back much further than that, specifically in this forum and topic, psilocybe mushrooms. After months of cultivation and experimitation, I've found the best techniques linked with nature. Everybody has their recommended incubating conditions, and then fruiting conditions, but the reality is, mushrooms have evolved to the natural patterns of this world. For a while, I was following the generalization that the incubating temperature should be moderately higher than the temperature which that they fruit at, but to my experiences it proves to be a little different.

I was incubating at around 83F with the assumption that when I drop it to around 76-78, it would fruit very plentiful. Of course, this worked, but I wasn't too comfortable always using everybody elses techniques all the time. After this one occasion that I ingested psilocybin containing substances, I felt a very close relation with earth and specifically, my culture growing in the same room I was tripping in. I studied the mushrooms intently on figuring out why they wanted to communicate with me. Of course, like any trip, things just come together, naturally make sense. I decided after this experience of being 'one' with the shrooms, I was going to replicate the natural environment I would love if I was a mushroom. This would involve replicating the circumstances that mother nature would provide. Whenever a mushroom sees light, it also experiences an increase in temperature (just like every single day in this world). The darkness has a decrease in temperature, the daylight has an increase. This is fairly obvious to everybody

I first tried this with the incubation stage with some jars that were taking rather long to colonize at near perfect conditions. After just a week of this new cycle, the growth was amazing. During the day, I turned on a light in the closet they were in, and the temperatures slowly rised to a maximum of 86F, and then slowly over the night dropped to about 76F. Within around 3 or 4 days, the growth was amazing. The mycelium was so thick, it looked like milk seeping into the uncolonized portions. The new mycelium was stringy, and extremely thick. I couldn't have been happier.

After one of the jars fully colonized like this, I decided to try this with the fruiting conditions. When I gave it light, I let it get warmer (with a light on the top gradually warming it). The mushrooms didn't necesariliy grow faster or bigger, in fact, they grew rather perfectly small, but after I cut the first one from these conditions I couldn't believe the instant bluing bruise from the cut. It got so blue, it looked nearly black. After drying, this was by far the best Cubensis I have ever grown. The inside was just solid blue all the way around. The others I followed the Teks were just so so.. The mushrooms grew, but weren't too satisfying (eating almost 2 grams and just getting stoned). I highly recommend to anybody growing magic mushrooms, put yourself in touch with nature before considering your techniques. Just because it works doesn't mean it REALLY works. You know what I mean?

Melatonin is a derivative of tryptamine also, and it regulates sleep and wake cycles. *winK* hahahah, j/k that probably has nothing to do with it, but you gotta love nature. Good luck everybody, hope this little piece of wisdom helps you as much as me.


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Outstanding Revolution [Re: Trique]
    #2821637 - 06/23/04 05:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Theres all kinds of ways to do temp cycling.

Bottom Line: With this method, you can get your casing to pin whenever you want it to, regardless of how much the mycelium has grown in. Read: No more waiting 2+ weeks for pinning. I?m eager for someone else to try this to see if they have the same success.

Background:
I generally let my casing pans grow at 86 degrees for four days to speed up mycelial colonization of the soil, and then subsequently cold-shock the pan and leave it at 75 degrees until pinning begins.

But recently, I had one pan with which I did this, but I was not satisfied with its colonization level. So I decided to put the pan back at 86 degrees overnight, in hopes that it would grow in a bit more.

The next day, I pulled the pan out again, figuring it was sufficiently colonized, since it would grow in a bit more anyway (though it was not well colonized for pinning). This time, I didn?t bother to cold shock it the pan, but instead just put it back out at 75 degrees and left it there

What happened next was startling. Within 24 hours, the relatively un-colonized pan had started to initiate pinning, even though the casing wasn?t nearly as colonized as pans I had previously prepared.

At this point, a signal went off in my mind. This process had previously taken two weeks (give or take) of waiting and hoping that the soil didn?t get overlay. Now, I suddenly had a 5-day-old, semi-colonized pan shooting up mushrooms at a very predictable time. The temperature cycles were key.

The Cycle:
Here?s what I did in the first trial:

The substrate was inoculated, colonized at 86 degrees, and subsequently broken up and made into casing. Casing was kept at 86 degrees for two days, after which additional casing soil was applied over whatever mycelium that had popped through the soil. The pan was placed back at 86 degrees for two more days (so 4 days total at 86F). It was then removed and cold-shocked in the refrigerator overnight. The pan was put at 75 degrees for 1-2 days, and then placed back into 86 degree conditions overnight. Finally, it was removed, and once again placed at 75 degrees.

The result was that pins began to form within about 24 hours. Keep in mind that this first trial was not intentional, and was rather early, since the mycelium had not spread to the surface very extensively.

My Recommendations:
Put at 86 degrees for 2 days. Check pan, cover mycelium over with casing. Keep at 86 for 3 more days. Cold shock overnight. Place at 75 degrees for 2 days. Place at 86 degrees overnight. Place at 75, and wait.

This will come out to approximately 5-6 days of preparation, and a day or so of waiting, for a total of no more than a week to pinning. This is far superior to simply leaving it at 75 degrees and being forced to wait for up to two weeks and run the risk of overlay and contamination.

Why It?s Not Just a Theory:
While the first trial may have been due to chance, I?ve done the same thing intentionally with two other pans and gotten the same results. In addition, each pan has been colonized to a different degree than the others, but has still pinned.

Speculations on Mechanism:
As somewhat of a junior science expert, as it were, I think a good hypothesis for this phenomenon is as follows.

When the mycelial network is forming, it responds to drops in temperature, which in the natural environment, would signal the coming of cooler weather. However, I don?t the usual method of jerking the temperature down 10 degrees and leaving it there does the trick. Why?

Well, look at the situation from a biological standpoint: If you?re a fungus, you want to spread your mycelium as thoroughly as possible before pinning, so that you can sprout as many fruits, and thus spread as many spores, as possible. On the other hand, you don?t want to wait too long to produce fruits, or you?ll lose your chance. So you use a temperature drop as a signal to start pinning.

But here?s where things get tricky: Seasons can also change quickly, so a large temperature drop can also signify that it?s too late to pin. So it?s not in the best interest of the fungus to sprout fruits if they?re only going to die and the new spores aren?t going to take hold.

From the fungus? standpoint, the key to maximizing growth and survival is to ensure that growth conditions are favorable while simultaneously waiting for as long as possible, so that growth can be maximized.

So why doesn?t the traditional growth method ? that is, changing from 86 to 75 degrees and nothing else (except cold-shocking) ? work very efficiently? Because the mycelium thinks the temperatures are going to stay cold, so it holds off until it?s sure it?s safe to go ahead with pinning (e.g., 2 weeks later when nothing has changed).

So how do you get a mushroom to pin when you want it to? You give it confirmation of cooler temperatures, but also give it some warmth in the process, so that it knows the world hasn?t frozen over already. In other words, you create a trend from hot to cool, but in a cyclical pattern.

A temperature reduction from 86 degrees starts off the process by giving the mycelium a warning that cooler days are coming. But subsequently raising the temperature to 86, and then dropping it back to 75 again, gives confirmation that it?s still warm enough, and not too late to produce fruits. But it sends the signal that the window of opportunity for the fungus to proliferate itself is shrinking.

The end result? An immediate, ?panic? response, if you will, to send off spores as quickly as possible while it?s still got the chance.

Obviously, this is all theoretical, but the genetic code is amazingly complicated, and such a hypothesis is not unreasonable. In any case, the subject warrants further research.


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


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Offlinehawksapprentice
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Re: Outstanding Revolution [Re: Trique]
    #2821650 - 06/23/04 06:03 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Very intersting.......of course everyone will have to try it. I started sultivating this way to begin with, but without as much succes. Now that i have more experience i believe i will give it another shot.


--------------------
"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


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OfflineQandA
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Registered: 05/19/04
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Re: Outstanding Revolution [Re: Magash]
    #2821718 - 06/23/04 06:35 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Magash, I'm going to get my foaf to give this a try with 2 of his current casings. I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks!!! This ought to be interesting!  :smile:


--------------------
I'm not crazy...crazy.


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Offlinemockeylock
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Re: Outstanding Revolution [Re: Trique]
    #2821728 - 06/23/04 06:40 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'm so glad you guys have brought this up. I've read a couple posts about this before stating essentially the same thing about increasing the temperature for a given period of time after putting casings into fruiting conditions. And then nobody says anything about it for months on end.

There is definately more to the pinning trigger than we know. So many folks say, "Well this way works for me and has for a long time."

Great, but there is certainly a difference between what "works" and what is "extremely efficient and wildly successful." I prefer the latter.

Anyway, I think this is a wonderful thread and with this many people dedicated to the cause, I'm sure we can get some controlled experiments going!

Quick question, How long, on average, does it take a cubie to grow from pin to mature fruit outside compared to inside? Granted this doesn't touch pin formation time but how do you measure "complete colonization to pin time" outside? I guess you can't unless you simply measure from the time mycelium breaks through the top layer...


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InvisibleMagashM
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Re: Outstanding Revolution [Re: mockeylock]
    #2821741 - 06/23/04 06:45 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Quick question, How long, on average, does it take a cubie to grow from pin to mature fruit outside compared to inside? Granted this doesn't touch pin formation time but how do you measure "complete colonization to pin time" outside? I guess you can't unless you simply measure from the time mycelium breaks through the top layer...





You know I should pay attention to that but I always end up looking outside and going "holy shit there are shrooms in the outdoor patch". I have to keep a closer eye out


--------------------
All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?


:growingweed: Join us at the Growery! :growingweed:


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OfflineTrique
Psilocybe Junkie
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 61
Loc: Chocolate Town, Pennsylva...
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Outstanding Revolution [Re: Magash]
    #2825032 - 06/24/04 07:58 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not sure exactly how long it takes for an outdoor mushroom to pop up. Some of you mycologists need to answer that.

The interesting thing I'm still un answered on is why was the shrooms that come off of it so potent?

When psilocybe mushrooms see their 'perfect' conditions, do they feel more protective? It falls under some theories of why mushrooms are so magical. Animals are not likely to eat magic mushrooms again after their first good snack of it.


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OfflineIamthewalrus
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Re: Outstanding Revolution [Re: Trique]
    #2825217 - 06/24/04 09:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

its possible this was just a fluke(if you only did it once) I think you should try some more experiments before coming to any conclusions

imo and ime the best trigger for pinning is misting(which simulates rain from the natural environment) I do believe what your saying about giving the mushrooms what they would get in nature...but that said I think misting and proper air exchange play a bigger role in pinning than temp and light cycles do(I always get primorida 1 week in the fruiting chamber no matter what the temp) I have never once had a casing sit for more than a week without pinning


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OfflineIamthewalrus
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Re: Outstanding Revolution [Re: Trique]
    #2825266 - 06/24/04 09:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I also think that misting matts down the mycelium on top just a lil bit creating the perfect place for pins to grow...here are some of my recent pinsets to show you what I mean

my most recent (creeper)





another creeper





and a burma



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OfflineTrique
Psilocybe Junkie
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 61
Loc: Chocolate Town, Pennsylva...
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Outstanding Revolution [Re: Iamthewalrus]
    #2826965 - 06/25/04 07:30 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Those are some fairly nice casings you have there.

I agree with the misting part about substituting rain. The moderation in which you mist is also re-enacting the perfect conditions that slopes offer in outdoor beds. To be honest, I don't even know what I'm thinking because I haven't been misting, but I just recently put out a new casing, and the mycelium is just barely popping up. I'll tell you if this helps the current cycle (with warmer days).

As for another more interesting note I've recently infered. I've been checking the shrooms and fanning them only twice a day. Right when the sun comes up, and right before I go to bed at around 10pm-11. The day interval is much longer than the night one, but they always do the amazingly fast growing overnight. From nothing to large pins, and from tiny shrooms to gigantic ones.

No real conclusions at this point, but I'll keep you guys updated.


Edited by Trique (06/25/04 12:16 PM)


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OfflineQandA
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Re: Outstanding Revolution [Re: Trique]
    #2827948 - 06/25/04 02:08 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You should fan more than twicw a day. Air exchange is key. You'll end up with much better growth. Try fanning 4-6 times per day. jmho


--------------------
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OfflineTrique
Psilocybe Junkie
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 61
Loc: Chocolate Town, Pennsylva...
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Outstanding Revolution [Re: QandA]
    #2830462 - 06/26/04 01:05 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Been fanning much more. Need to find myself a spray bottle still to use for misting. Don't want to re-use one that had windex or anything in it.

On the casing, strong mycelium growth is coming through the layer of vermiculite on the top, so I expect fruits here in the next couple days. Keep in mind my goal is potency more so than anything else.


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OfflineTrique
Psilocybe Junkie
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Loc: Chocolate Town, Pennsylva...
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Outstanding Revolution [Re: Trique]
    #2878079 - 07/11/04 02:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Now, it's been a while since I've updated, but I have some excellent news. I had a casing going that was under this cycle (except a one day screw up).
During the day, the temperature was slowly risen 5 or 6 degrees F as it got light. I misted nearly everyday, probably too much, but it has proved to help it flush. Unfortunately, I used only 2 jars in this casing, so there has only been about 22 pins so far to pop up, but some of which have grown to be picked. I admit, it wasn't as fast as it could I have been, I still need suggestions on how to speed it up, but the potency is my greatest praise. I have only harvested about 2 grams, but the amazing thing is that they were only 6 fairly small shrooms (around 2 inches long with a nickel sized cap). After drying, the lost a lot less weight than I am usually used to. Not only that, but these things are VERY blue. I tried to pick them as gentle as possible of course, but where it was ripped, it has become nearly black because of the obvious psilocin content. The shroom itself when I picked it was fairly dense, much more than I am used too also, which might explain the amazing dry weight. I can't say it is brusing as much as one might be used to for an azurenscens, but for a cubensis, it is much to be proud of.

My setup before the casing consisted of two 1 pint jars of the typical PF Tek recipe. Crumbled into a mix of wet vermiculite with peat moss on top, hydrated lime added to neutralize the pH. I'm estimating with the potency, i'll be eating just 2/3 of what would be normal. I think I'm going to also quit drying.

Suggestions are much appreciated, for I'm not too experienced with casings, more educated on mushroom theory.


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