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Offlineyeehaw
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Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 118
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Temperature to keep spores?
    #2650883 - 05/07/04 06:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Should I keep my syringes and prints in the fridge, freezer, or at room temperature? Thanks!


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OfflineGr0wer
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Registered: 09/16/03
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Re: Temperature to keep spores? [Re: yeehaw]
    #2650952 - 05/07/04 07:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

room temp.


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Offlineyeehaw
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Re: Temperature to keep spores? [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2650956 - 05/07/04 07:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

cool... thanks!


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InvisibleOldSpice
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Re: Temperature to keep spores? [Re: yeehaw]
    #2650985 - 05/07/04 07:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Freezing is probably as bad as storing them in a really hot place..


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OfflineScolecite
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Re: Temperature to keep spores? [Re: OldSpice]
    #2651676 - 05/07/04 11:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

is the fridge bad for them?


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InvisibleButterNut
Squash

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 1,466
Loc: Throughout the world
Re: Temperature to keep spores? [Re: Scolecite]
    #2651678 - 05/07/04 11:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

No not at all,as long as they dont freeze.I double bag mine and place in a box in the fridge,and ive used syringes that were stored for almost 2 years this way and had good results 2 years later.
Keep them in the fridge man.


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Butternut squash are softer than acorn or other types of squash, which makes them easier to cut and prepare.


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InvisibleMykro_Guy
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Re: Temperature to keep spores? [Re: yeehaw]
    #2654687 - 05/08/04 10:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

room temp champ


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InvisibleButterNut
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Re: Temperature to keep spores? [Re: Mykro_Guy]
    #2654727 - 05/08/04 10:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mykro_Guy said:
room temp champ



Not true at all.Although if its not real warm they will be ok,that is not the best way to store them.Fridge as I described is.Lets see ya store a syringe at room temperture(with constant fluctuations)for 2 years and see if it still works well,im willing to bet not that great if at all..Ive done it in the fridge and it does work well.


--------------------
Butternut squash are softer than acorn or other types of squash, which makes them easier to cut and prepare.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Temperature to keep spores? [Re: yeehaw]
    #2655826 - 05/09/04 05:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Fridge is best... but room temp will work in a crunch.


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Offlineberto23
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Re: Temperature to keep spores? [Re: yeehaw]
    #2656140 - 05/09/04 10:05 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

well, depending on how long you store them for.... if you need them a week later it really dont matter as long as they dont freeze and arent hot.... fridge keeps things for a longer time than room temp however but there isnt a definate time that spores wont work for either way, except that fridge will make them last longer


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Offlinesuboriginal
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Re: Temperature to keep spores? [Re: yeehaw]
    #2656205 - 05/09/04 10:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Not sure I entirely agree with the posts about freezing, but I am inexperienced with magic spores... Spores (bacterial or fungal) are notoriously hardy/ resistant, and my guess is that while freezing may knock off a good proportion, given the enormous amounts of spores in a single spore-print, this may be of little consequence. Consider this post from "Dimitri211" way back (yielded by searching the forum for "freezing spores")

"I think it would be better to put them somewhere cool under 65 degrees. but i did put 3 pesa syringes in storage on accident,the water froze solid and i used them anyway and out of 36 jars only 7 did not colonize"

The potential advantage of freezing a spore-print would be that freezing achieves a kind-of suspended animation; even contaminants present in the spore-print (there accidentally/ from cultivator, or if it's a print from a wild-caught shroom it is almost certainly contaminated with other spores/ bacteria etc from the field) are unlikely to 'progress'/ ruin the print/ viability of the spores, for as long as the thing is kept frozen thus they could potentially be stored for more than a decade this way {{*subsequent edit*; NOTE, I am talking about prints only here, not freezing spores in solution, see below posts, Important!}}
I'd be very interested to hear any other reports from peeps that have frozen a spore-print (please include species!) then assessed the viability...
I plan to try this, and will post results... as with biological samples such as human cells, the main enemy re death by freezing will be destruction of vital structures by frozen water molecules (including those within the spore itself). Thus freezing a dry spore-print as opposed to spores in solution (a syringe) seems optimal. But note the above post from Dimitri211, even spores in solution can apparently withstand freezing. I will also try to ensure that the prints freeze SSSLLLOOOWWLLLY, as this minimises formation of large (damaging) aggregates of frozen water molecules... this is achieved by wrapping the film container containing the print (and optional dessicating beads/ cotton-wool etc) in a few towels, before putting it in the freezer... the cold penetrates the layers slowly, resulting in a slow 'gentle' freeze... Thawing on the other hand, should be done quickly, for example removing print from freezer and resuspending spores in sterile room temp H2O straight away...
At least this is what I will try as an experiment, my hunch is that it will work fine, and be a good way to store spore-prints 'indefinately'... notably repeated freeze-thawing seems to kill most biological samples (bacteria/ viruses excluded!), and if the frozen sample thaws out and is re-frozen, viability might diminish to close to zero.
Again, these are just my suspicions re shroom spores, and they may turn out to be entirely false !! My hunch is however, that given the incredible resilience of fungal spores as long as they're not over-run by contaminants, the best way to store a spore-print (especially one mase from a wild-shroom that is thus almost certainly contaminated with other moulds/ fungi) may well be frozen... hell, why not hedge your bets and cut a wee slice from some of your prints (use boniled/ cooled scissors!) and freeze them, just incase your fridge stored samples are overrun/ destroyed by a rogue contaminant ?!?
Just thoughts, not tried/ true methods, any opinions from the more experienced would be appreciated... re the above comment about freezing being 'probably as bad as storing them in a hot place' (or words to that effect), the main difference is that hot environments promote contaminant moulds etc to grow, whereas freezing all-but halts the progression of contaminants for as long as the sample remains frozen...
Peace, love and mung-beans...


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Offlinesuboriginal
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Registered: 05/06/04
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Re: Temperature to keep spores? [Re: suboriginal]
    #2656323 - 05/09/04 11:58 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

While I think of it, I'll also mention that the oven seems to be a great place to make spore-prints of wild-caught shrooms... drawers/ closets etc can be riddled with nasty fungi/ moulds etc (especially if there's any dampness anywhere), but every time an oven is used for any length of time, it essentially sterilises itself... what I (would) do is turn the oven on for 45 minutes (moderate/ 180-C), then let it cool for about 4 hours (door shut!!). Then I (would) lob in the fresh caps, sitting on blotting paper that has been recently microwaved (2.5 minutes on high, in a pretty piss-weak microwave) for about 3 days. Remove and store or use... remember wild-caught shroom-spore-prints will be contaminated, so agar culturing is really the only way to ensure success/ clean culture... bit 'fiddly', but all materials are readilly available...
PS... don't forget to warn the house-mates etc about your science experiment, particularly if you have a 'self-sparking' oven!!!


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Peace, love and organic brown rice...


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InvisibleButterNut
Squash

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 1,466
Loc: Throughout the world
Re: Temperature to keep spores? [Re: suboriginal]
    #2656359 - 05/09/04 12:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Freezing a print,and freezing a syringe are 2 totally differant things.Even if "some"of the spores survived,why would you want to do something that would hurt your chances by killing off a portion of the spores.Besides that,the expanding water in the plastic syringe could crack the syringe.Since the spores on a print are dehydrated,then it very well may be a good place to store them,however the spores in a syringe are hydrated and when the water in the spores expands due to freezing,it will rupture them.theres alot of posts all winter from people who live in the north and when there spore syringe it is frozen.Did they work,sure most of the time,but as you say,#1 im sure some,if not alot of the spores perished,and #2 theres the risk of the syringe busting,so I wouldnt suggest this.
The fridge will keep prints good for many years,and syringes for at least a year or 2,.Who really needs to store a print or a syringe longer than 2 years anyway.
But good find I do agree it is possable with a print,,as long as you make sure it is tottally dry first.If your going to do this I would place the print in my Dessicant chamber for a while first,to make sure all the moisture is gone.As far as the syringe,sure it might still be ok,but its just not practical to take the chance,when a fridge works so good.


--------------------
Butternut squash are softer than acorn or other types of squash, which makes them easier to cut and prepare.


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Offlinesuboriginal
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Registered: 05/06/04
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Re: Temperature to keep spores? [Re: ButterNut]
    #2656446 - 05/09/04 01:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Agreed on all points Butternut, especially the dangers of freezing liquid in a closed chamber (ie spore syringes), that I should have mentioned in my post. I would only ever try it with completely dry spore-prints. I do suspect some peeps might want to revisit their shroom-days many years apart (10 years later case-in-point) though, and thus storage methods that are effective in the very long term may prove useful? Also in this day and age of global warming and more realistically/ importantly, habitat destruction, ?trusty? spots may be sadly eliminated, and it might be good if a few peeps spirited away a few prints (in the freezer) for long term storage?
While I think of it, I think this is a good place to ask if anyone has had much success in actually colonising a new (natural) area, using a spore print. I used to wonder why it was that certain shrooms seemed so restricted to certain areas, and ended up concluding that maybe they liked to co-exist with ?symbiotic species? (certain trees etc), and that maybe even altitude/ pressure and subtle factors like that promoted patches? Then later I happened on this site and similar ones, and learned that they could be quite easily grown in sterile brown rice (no symbionts present!), at pretty much any altitude? could it be that the natural setting is very different from the ?cultivated? setting re optimisation of conditions (competing fungi etc) and that symbionts and altitude may in fact be the clincher in the natural setting, but that if you optimise conditions (ie. cultivation in earnest) these things can be risen above/ are not crucial ?
If this is so, then you could spread as many spores around as you want, but if they?re not in the right spot, it will be useless? perhaps the best idea is to spread them around only very near where you found the strain the spores came from, ?ensuring? (almost) that it is the right spot for them to grow under natural conditions?
Any thoughts from the better informed would be greatly appreciated?
Peace, love and mung-beans?


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Peace, love and organic brown rice...


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InvisibleButterNut
Squash

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 1,466
Loc: Throughout the world
Re: Temperature to keep spores? [Re: suboriginal]
    #2656487 - 05/09/04 01:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I have grown cubes outdoors many times in The northeast US.They grow well for that season,but never come back.The winters are just too harsh.Now could spores be left over from the year before,that happened to make it through our Deep freeze winter,sure,but I believe that even if they germinated,I dont believe the conditions would be right for them to make it to the fruiting stage.After all think about this,If you innoculate a jar it should be kept at 86F or as close as possable.After about 3 days youll see Mycelluim.Now drop that temperture down from 86F to 55F every twelve hours and those jars are going to take at least twice as long.Now add to that the fact that one day the temperture could be 86F,the next 70F,and so on.That is what a typical summer/fall is like here.Now figure into this mix that it could very easily under these conditions take a network of mycelluim a good 3 months or more to germinate,grow and network itself together enough to get to the pointm where it is ready to fruit.Now all that time has passed and were only part of the way done.Now we are into the fall,and conditions can be even more unpredictable here.Not only does the Mycelluim have to wait for the time when its right to start pinning,but it has to produce spore producing fruits or its life cycle is done.Now lets say that a few mushrooms do grow to maturity and produce spores.Is it enough to make it through the harsh winters that could come and to survive the process again next spring?Doubtfull..When I grow outside,I take care of the major part of the process,by colonizing spawn,and introducing to suitable envirioments(compost/verm/coir,lime,ect)increasing its chances tremendously,and cutting the time needed down.Without this help they arent capable of doing it.So really its not a matter of the right place,more the right enviroment.The enviromental conditions in some areas just arent capable of supporting those species of fungus and thier growth parameters on there own.

BTW I know Dimitri211(or rather knew him)and that post has gotta be 2+ years old,so  :thumbup:on your search through the archives,very cool.I wish more people took the time to research like you.


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Butternut squash are softer than acorn or other types of squash, which makes them easier to cut and prepare.


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Offlinesuboriginal
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Registered: 05/06/04
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Re: Temperature to keep spores? [Re: ButterNut]
    #2656565 - 05/09/04 01:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Cheers for the kind words buts, it's easy to 'research' when the subject is interesting and the posts/ website structure are good !!! Re colonising new areas with prints, I'm in Melbourne (Australia) so 'harsh winters' (read frosts/ below 0 temps) are not really an issue... the myc' life-cycle issues you mentioned do imply that 'seeding new areas' with nout but a spore-print suspension are probably a bit of a pipe-dream though... but methinks I will try anyways... spores are resilient little buggers...


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Peace, love and organic brown rice...


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Offlinesuboriginal
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Re: Temperature to keep spores? [Re: suboriginal]
    #2662016 - 05/11/04 07:20 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Incase anyone is particularly interested in spores, I've taken some picks of P.subaeruginosa (caught in Melbourne) spores under various levels of magnification, 200, 500 and 1000 x... you can find them posted in the 'mushroom hunting' forum, under the topic titled 'Melbourne Victoria Australia ETC (w/pics)'...


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Peace, love and organic brown rice...


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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