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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: MysticMycologist]
    #27699567 -

Just pulled this out of my 66qt mono using whole brown rice for my spawn. Bunch of weird mutants, but came with the weight for sure.





I started with whole brown rice and no PC. I've got a sterilizer and agar now, but I don't see a difference between using wheat berries and whole brown rice.

Thanks,
PurpleHat

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: PurpleHat] * 1
    #27699577 -

Did you inoculate the grain(rice) with spore syringe, or a clean culture on agar? Did you prep the rice yourself, or buy premade microwaveable pouches at Walmart? It is not about rye vs. rice.


--------------------
Two eyes to look, One eye to see.
Prying open my third eye

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: MysticMycologist]
    #27699587 -

Ah, sorry, misunderstood the intent of the thread. Here's the first grow I ever did where I prepped whole brown rice by steaming it, making a spore syringe out of a spore print, and going strait to grain with it:



Spotty, but they definitely worked. I think people blow it with their sterile technique 9/10 times. But hell, I don't know, I'm still noob status, might still be riding on beginners luck over here.

Thanks,
PurpleHat

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: PurpleHat]
    #27699753 -

PurpleHat said:
Ah, sorry, misunderstood the intent of the thread.


No, you were right on. We want to see the successful rice grows and how people achieved those results. There’s are a lot of failed projects on here, especially rice based ones lately. Just wanted to see some that actually panned out and learn what the fuss is all about. The UB tek I get because there is zero grain prep or PCing involved. Regular dehydrated rice is cheap and all, but there are so many better grain options for cultivation that are similarly priced. It is a novelty thing? What’s the allure?

PurpleHat said:
I'm still noob status, might still be riding on beginners luck over here.


It doesn’t last long, friend. Enjoy it while it lasts.

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #27699825 -

I'm a hobbyist, so ultimate $/dry Oz isn't exactly the guideline for my grows. Strictly anecdotally, I've seen my rice jars colonize faster than wheat berries, and have had them contam less. Now, I've never done any simultaneous testing with a meaningful sample size to scientifically prove anything.

I thought that people use BRF because it's supposed to have less endospores than other grains. Would this not also extend to Whole Brown Rice?

Why is Rice an inferior grain compared to others, besides cost? Nutrition density? Ease of prep? Other than those two, I'm not sure what meaningful differences there could be.

Thanks,
PurpleHat

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: PurpleHat]
    #27699838 -

grains with a husk are preferred for spawn because they don't get sticky and clumpy. There is probably a time release aspect of the nutrition with a husk as well.


--------------------
- Sandbag Tek - How To Sterilize Spawn Bags - All About Static Pressure / Pressure Drop for DIY Flow Hoods - Sandman's LC Tek-

Marijuanaut escapes earth to cultivate - Grow-room is church temple of the new stoner breed

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: PurpleHat]
    #27699842 -

Quote:

I thought that people use BRF because it's supposed to have less endospores than other grains. Would this not also extend to Whole Brown Rice?



I think the late great Psilocybe Fanaticus went with brown rice flour because brown rice is the easiest whole grain to source- you can get it at almost any grocery store.

The ground-up rice is easier to sterilize because you don't need to account for heating and hydrating all the way into the interior of the grain. I don't think it's that there's necessarily fewer endospores, just that they're no longer "endo" once the grains of rice are all ground up.


--------------------


ACAB  🖕🧊


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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: B Traven]
    #27699881 -

Hi Sandman,
The rice jars definitely are hard to shake sometimes, that's for sure. I could see them turning to goo if you don't prep correctly, too. I hard boil the rice for 10 minutes, then strain it and cool them cold water for a few minutes before I jar it and pop them in the sterilizer. There is 'X' hour rest step, which is an advantage too, I can do a full grain prep cycle after work before I go to bed.  Again, anecdotally, perhaps the faster colonization times I see on rice are due to the availability of the nutrition vs a hulled grain, and their built-in time delay effect. Interesting stuff.

Hi B Traven,
Hm, I've never actually ran Pf before, but that's a great point, I hadn't really thought about mass/surface area when it come to the sterilization step. I haven't seen anyone attempt Pf with a different "floured" grain before, have you? I wonder what a side by side would look like in terms of colonization speeds, since the hull wouldn't be a factor anymore.

General-
I think alot of the reason people choose the UB bags in general is, obviously, reddit misinformation. "oh its for human consumption so it has to be sterile" is a common refrain I've heard, which is obvious nonsense. "so easy compared to 'x'!" is another one. More simple than agar-grain-sub? I guess. Lots of people struggle, and this is with no snark, with following simple lists of instructions. You ever meet anyone who cooks stuff and is always throwing in weird ingredients or modifying recipes for no reason? We all have. So "Teks" with less steps make people more comfortable, and telling people that they don't have to sterilize or move to sub is going to make for a popular option.


Thanks,
PurpleHat

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: Curious Thinker] * 3
    #27700061 -

Quote:
The best thing about UB TEK is that it allows new growers to easily test sterile technique


But it doesn't teach you any of that... That's the huge weak point of the UB tek. You go on to confirm this buy saying:

Quote:
The appeal of UB to me as a new grower was that the first half of the inoculation process (grain sterilization) was already taken care of.


So you've done no sterile practices. You've just shot a syringe that you are hoping is clean into some grain. You may learn how to wipe stuff with ISO, but as far as I can tell I'm not sure what else the tek teaches you about clean work.

I agree that it gives growers the chance to learn about fruiting conditions, but so does any other tek.

IMO UB is basically buying a grow kit.

I hate to add to the hate, that isn't my aim here. I just feel it's important to have these points made in an UB thread.

That tub looks great btw!


--------------------

..:: E V E R Y  ::..

..:: New? Start here. ::..
..:: How I Panaeolus. From Agar to Tea ::..

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: coversall] * 1
    #27700106 -

coversall said:
Quote:
The best thing about UB TEK is that it allows new growers to easily test sterile technique


But it doesn't teach you any of that... That's the huge weak point of the UB tek. You go on to confirm this buy saying:

Quote:
The appeal of UB to me as a new grower was that the first half of the inoculation process (grain sterilization) was already taken care of.


So you've done no sterile practices. You've just shot a syringe that you are hoping is clean into some grain. You may learn how to wipe stuff with ISO, but as far as I can tell I'm not sure what else the tek teaches you about clean work.

I agree that it gives growers the chance to learn about fruiting conditions, but so does any other tek.

IMO UB is basically buying a grow kit.

I hate to add to the hate, that isn't my aim here. I just feel it's important to have these points made in an UB thread.

That tub looks great btw!


You're right that what I was doing wasn't sterilization.  I should have said I wanted to see if I could work in a SAB successfully using the UB bags.  And I mean it did work out.  Inoculated 8 bags on my first attempt and 5 survived.  I've got 5 more going now that were leftovers from the first round and all are colonizing well with no weird smells yet.

One other thing that intimidated me about agar was identifying healthy mycelium from contams.  I remember reading posts here where a plate would be contaminated and I couldn't tell the difference between it and a healthy one at first.  With the UB bags it seems a little easier to identify problems because there is so much material in the bag.  I'll never forget the smell of the two bags that had wet rot, ugh.

But again, I'm not arguing anyone who is using agar should switch to UB or that UB is superior.  I'm just arguing that UB is much more approachable for someone who has never done this before.  Kind of dip your toes in the water with less financial outlay. :chugbeer:

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: Curious Thinker] * 1
    #27700144 -

I hear that. And totally get the point about it being a way to 'dip your toes in'.

Please forgive me, I'm not having a go or attacking you or anything. Like I said I do think it is important to drill down into some of these topics. Nocing UB bags in a SAB is a great way at getting familiar with what it is like to work in a SAB, however, it won't give you a chance to know whether your SAB work is good or not. You can noc bags and jars outside of a SAB. I regularly inject PF jars in the open air.

Then just to touch on your agar concerns. Honestly, if you liked the grow you've done, and feel like you may continue in the hobby, then give agar a shot. It is really much easier than you think. I was very nervous about taking the plunge before I did. I tried no-pour agar thinking it would be easier, but didn't like how it worked out so gave pouring plates ago. I was convinced there was no way it would work in my SAB. My house is dirty and I'm dirty.
But it was a breeze. Now I'm pouring plates reguarly with a very low contam rate. Like most things, follow the teks, pay attention to detail, and you'll be golden.

IDing myc from contams is pretty simple, after you've seen it once or twice you won't sweat it. But the great thing about agar is the degree of control it gives you. Don't like the look of something, just leave it. Streak more plates. Keep throwing spores at agar till you get the growth you want.


--------------------

..:: E V E R Y  ::..

..:: New? Start here. ::..
..:: How I Panaeolus. From Agar to Tea ::..

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: coversall] * 1
    #27700759 -

No worries, I don't feel like you're attacking me at all, we're just having a healthy debate.  Honestly, I feel like we (as in society) would be in a much better place if people felt comfortable having agreeable disagreements, if that makes sense.  Not sure where you're located but I'm in the US and no one wants to discuss things with someone from the other side here.  It's just demonize, demonize, demonize, and I hate it.  Don't want to get too political though so I'll just leave it at that.

I'm actually really excited to get into agar.  But I want to do it the right way with quality supplies that will last.  Unfortunately, funds are tight at the moment so I'm trying to make do with what I have on hand. That means my next grow will most likely be with brown rice that will be sterilized in an instant pot and inoculated with a spore syringe.  I know, I know, I'll be making mistakes at every step.  But, it's what I have on hand and it's better than not trying at all, right?

Ultimately, I want clear, reusable agar plates and a clear SAB (I can't see shit through the one I've got now and it's too small too at 55 quarts lol).

I got into this to grow my own rather than trying to find it on the street.  I don't know if microdosing will prove beneficial in the long run but it's sure as hell worth a shot after all the pharmaceuticals I've tried.  Fuck the pharma companies.

Plus, even if microdosing doesn't do anything for me I still enjoy the occasional big trip and I know for a fact that those help me.

I'd never grown a single plant or anything before I tried the UB TEK.  And my motivation wasn't just to grow something, but to have a way to be independent and not have to rely on others for what I wanted.  After my first grow though I found that I really like taking care of something and seeing it progress, and the truth is I probably would have never discovered that without UB.  That's probably the biggest reason I defend it even though it does have it's flaws.  UB opened up a world to me that I probably wouldn't have discovered otherwise.

Happy grows to all! :mushroom2: :chugbeer:

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: Curious Thinker] * 1
    #27701487 -

Curious Thinker said:
I'm actually really excited to get into agar.
Unfortunately, funds are tight at the moment so I'm trying to make do with what I have on hand. That means my next grow will most likely be with brown rice that will be sterilized in an instant pot and inoculated with a spore syringe.

Ultimately, I want clear, reusable agar plates and a clear SAB (I can't see shit through the one I've got now and it's too small too at 55 quarts lol).


Agar is no different than anything else, you really don't need perfect equipment to achieve some measure of success with it.

Just squirting some spores onto whatever half-assed plates you can throw together, inside of whatever sort of SAB you can get your hands on, is still going to be more rewarding than the spores-to-grain lottery.

Little PP5 containers from the grocery store work fine as agar plates, even small wide-mouth jars (like the ones used for PF tek, or whatever you have laying around) will work in a pinch. I've been sterilizing no-pour plates in an instant pot for several years now, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. For less than twenty bucks, you should be able to get some agar going, and drastically increase your chances of success. I understand if you're chomping at the bit, and want to squirt some spores into grain and take your chances. I just think that, even on a shorter time scale, you'll end up saving time and materials with even a half-assed attempt at doing agar.

I really think that spores only belong on agar or in PF jars. And I wish someone had beat me over the head with that message before I wasted lots of time and materials on crappy and/or failed grows.


--------------------


ACAB  🖕🧊


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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: B Traven] * 2
    #27702308 -

Some stand on the shoulders of giants, and for some reason, others prefer to stand on the shoulders of midgets


--------------------
Pastywhyte's easy no pour agar dishes

Stallion Mang’s Ween covers

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: PurpleHat]
    #27702861 -

PurpleHat said:
I'm a hobbyist, so ultimate $/dry Oz isn't exactly the guideline for my grows. Strictly anecdotally, I've seen my rice jars colonize faster than wheat berries, and have had them contam less. Now, I've never done any simultaneous testing with a meaningful sample size to scientifically prove anything.

I thought that people use BRF because it's supposed to have less endospores than other grains. Would this not also extend to Whole Brown Rice?

Why is Rice an inferior grain compared to others, besides cost? Nutrition density? Ease of prep? Other than those two, I'm not sure what meaningful differences there could be.

Thanks,
PurpleHat



I compared growing cubes myc in whole oats and hulled oats, hulled oats beat whole oats colonization by many days. I gotta repeat this shit and document it. I only said it because, well, hulled oats are sorta like whole BR.


--------------------

Fermented Mushrooms!!
--- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1

'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”'



"I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST."

--Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: pablokabute]
    #27702916 -

pablokabute said:
PurpleHat said:
I'm a hobbyist, so ultimate $/dry Oz isn't exactly the guideline for my grows. Strictly anecdotally, I've seen my rice jars colonize faster than wheat berries, and have had them contam less. Now, I've never done any simultaneous testing with a meaningful sample size to scientifically prove anything.

I thought that people use BRF because it's supposed to have less endospores than other grains. Would this not also extend to Whole Brown Rice?

Why is Rice an inferior grain compared to others, besides cost? Nutrition density? Ease of prep? Other than those two, I'm not sure what meaningful differences there could be.

Thanks,
PurpleHat



I compared growing cubes myc in whole oats and hulled oats, hulled oats beat whole oats colonization by many days. I gotta repeat this shit and document it. I only said it because, well, hulled oats are sorta like whole BR.


Great point. The hull is pretty anemic, nutrition wise, so it stands to reason that easier availability to nutrition would drive faster colonization times. We should do some dissection of some colonized grains under microscope to see what the difference between hulled and whole is. It would be interesting to see what the access method the myc uses to get to the kernel of an un-hulled grain. If nutrition is related to potency (?) would using a hulled grain or rice as your spawn put more oompf into the first flush? Maybe you could shoot for the middle and get a blend of hulled/un-hulled to get fast colonization, and then slower nutrition release. I'll noodle on writing a test plan.

Thanks,
PurpleHat

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: PurpleHat] * 1
    #27702934 -

I think the hull makes for a less starchy and sticky surface area while having a nutritious center. Perfect for holding hydration while being aerated. A fungi’s dream food. Also perfect for a loose substrate and conducive for shakings, which are important for fast colonization.


--------------------
Two eyes to look, One eye to see.
Prying open my third eye

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: PurpleHat]
    #27703020 -

A study found that psilocybin doesn't vary drastically across flushes. Imo just use whatever grain is cheapest and easy for you to find. I have move from oats to wheat as wheat is cheaper and doesn't have a hull. It's also much cleaner than oats.

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: MysticMycologist]
    #27703034 -

MysticMycologist said:
I think the hull makes for a less starchy and sticky surface area while having a nutritious center. Perfect for holding hydration while being aerated. A fungi’s dream food. Also perfect for a loose substrate and conducive for shakings, which are important for fast colonization.


Well, I didnt even bother shaking the hulled oats due to being fully colonized even before whole oats reach 30%.

I dont understand this. I just recently discovered this. The key is cooking your grain spawn, whatever you choose, to perfection.

My simple guide is this.

I boil some water. Dump the grains. Set your timer.

17mins for whole oats.
10mins for hulled oats, whole brown rice, sorghum,

Take them out of the water. Steam evaporate. And load to jars.


--------------------

Fermented Mushrooms!!
--- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1

'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”'



"I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST."

--Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..

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Re: Uncle Ben and other rice grows [Re: pablokabute]
    #27703497 -

Maybe a dumb question but I did do the UB along with three other regular grain to monotubs.
I got two flushes out of the shoebox UB but one thing I noticed when harvesting the GT. The UB or rice, the mushrooms did not get that deep blue when cut like the normal grain flushes did.

Could this be because of the grain compared to the rice. Everything else was the same light substrate etc.

just a curious observation

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