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OfflineAeolus1369
Dr. Seahorse
Male

Registered: 05/20/02
Posts: 367
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Success of coffee tek explained?
    #2763026 - 06/04/04 01:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hey all, I came across an interesting fact the other day that may explain why adding coffee grounds or just coffee to substrate seems to stimulate growth.

I've heard much speculation that the caffeine in it somehow stimulates growth.  Caffeine is a stimulant in higher order animals because it decreases the actions of adenosine, a neuromodulator.  Since fungi of course don't have a nervous system, I would rule this possibility out.  Caffeine does have potent antiseptic properties (which is why the plant bothers to synthesize it to begin with).  Combined with another potent antiobiotic known as cinnamonic acid also found in coffee (and aloe vera incidentally), I would imagine coffee confers a higher resistance to contaminants.

How exactly this contributes to increased growth, I'm uncertain.  I would imagine that post birthing, the mycelium just has to channel less energy into fighting off contaminants and therefore has more energy for growth although if colonization time is accelerated with coffee as well then something else must be afoot.

I think a neat experiment to at least test the validity of the caffeine theory would simply be to mash up some Nodoz into water and use the water at various dilutions in the substrate.

Ok that's all.  I hope I'm not just repeating what someone else has already said...I probably should have done a search.  Oh well  :rolleyes:

  --Aeolus


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Success of coffee tek explained? [Re: Aeolus1369]
    #2765087 - 06/05/04 02:10 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think caffiene should be ruled out, as you said, doesnt make sense. It affect nervous systems and mushrooms dont have nervous systems. However your backworks on the fighting off contams. It actually contams really easy and probably much to your surprise, THIS is why its excellent "fertilizer". Try leaving a cup of coffee out for a couple days and see how quick the mold gets it. Same with fruit juices. They have excellent nutrients for growing bacteria or fungis. So if you add coffee and keep it sterile then you "contaminate" it with the myc or spores..it will take off, just like if you leave it set out on your counter.

Many people tried using coffee after they PCed and got tons of contams thats why you have to add it before PCing so it get cooked good.


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Offlinetoikey
novice
Registered: 11/01/03
Posts: 40
Loc: Perth, Australia
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Success of coffee tek explained? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #2765600 - 06/05/04 08:06 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

i think the fact that caffeine affects OUR nervous system (and that of other animals) doesnt mean that it has to effect A nervous system.
it is just as likely that the caffeine has effect on the mush in a different way to hyping up the nervous system like it does to us.
what im tryin to say is the caffeine may be doing something else to a differnt metabolic pathway and it may still be that the caffeine is the cause of the effects on mush growth
only repeated experimentation with different additions some containing caffeine, some with no caffeine but maybe some similar organix to the coffee bean etc etc etc
until then its all speculation :smile:


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Invisiblematts
matts

Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 3,649
Re: Success of coffee tek explained? [Re: toikey]
    #2765636 - 06/05/04 09:01 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)



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OfflineRat
Stranger
Registered: 04/20/04
Posts: 103
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Success of coffee tek explained? [Re: Aeolus1369]
    #2765908 - 06/05/04 12:50 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The best way to test the caffiene theory is to do an experiment where half the batch is using regular coffee while the other half is using decaf. I just did a batch with coffee but I didn't have any decaf. Maybe when I do my next batch, I'll go out and buy some decaf to test the theory.


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Offlinetrippysmurf
Smurfette'sSugar Daddy

Registered: 02/22/04
Posts: 195
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Success of coffee tek explained? [Re: Rat]
    #2766037 - 06/05/04 01:54 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Decaf still has caffeine in it.

an 8oz. cup of coffee has 95mg of caffeine. Decaf has 3mg. So, it's tremendously less caffeine, but for scientific testing purposes, it's not perfect.


--------------------
I like your Christ, but I do not like Christians - they are so unlike Christ. -Gandhi


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InvisibleMykey
spectraltraveler

Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 542
Re: Success of coffee tek explained? [Re: Rat]
    #2766743 - 06/05/04 07:28 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

To do a good study of the validity of the caffein effect that would provide a conclusive answer to this question would have to involve more than just one test casing and one control casing. In keeping with good scientific method there would have to be many of each that were produces with meticulous care in order to keep every conceivable variable consistant amongst all. Only then could one compile enough credible statistical data to make any conclusions that would truly solve the debate.

Im not saying it isnt worth experimenting with a couple,Im just stating what it would take to convince the majority of those interested that the hypothesis holds true.

MYKEY


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Offlineberto23
Stranger
Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 250
Loc: NJ
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Success of coffee tek explained? [Re: Mykey]
    #2766919 - 06/05/04 09:18 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

first off, before you try and convince people that caffeine is the culprit for the tek working so well... maybe you should convince people that coffee does infact work


--------------------
the shnozzberrys taste like shnozzberrys


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OfflineSev
Astropath
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 1,426
Loc: NY
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Success of coffee tek explained? [Re: berto23]
    #2767290 - 06/05/04 11:14 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

There're also other ingredients in coffee that you'd want to take into account, such as tannins.


--------------------
"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.


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InvisibleMycomancer
Psi Cubed
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 586
Re: Success of coffee tek explained? [Re: Aeolus1369]
    #2767909 - 06/06/04 02:22 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Drug free spider web:




Spider's web on caffeine:



Other experiments included mescaline, hashish, and lsd. Of them all, caffeine produced the most distorted web.

http://www.cannabis.net/weblife.html

mycomancer


--------------------



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Offlinetrippysmurf
Smurfette'sSugar Daddy

Registered: 02/22/04
Posts: 195
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Success of coffee tek explained? [Re: Mycomancer]
    #2767952 - 06/06/04 02:41 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Damn.. that was some STRONG coffee that spider drank! gimmie some of THAT shit yo!


--------------------
I like your Christ, but I do not like Christians - they are so unlike Christ. -Gandhi


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Offlinemycoguy
old hand

Registered: 03/25/04
Posts: 874
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Success of coffee tek explained? [Re: Aeolus1369]
    #2767987 - 06/06/04 02:59 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

almost all of the jars i have done, using WBS soaked in coffee, before PCing have failed. 90% of the jars have come down with sour rot. bacillus. I'm sure as hell not using coffee anymore.


--------------------

(and no, that's not me in the avatar)
Yahoo! Pacific Northwest Mycology Group


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InvisibleATWAR
Connoisseur

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 1,640
Loc: #108768 in line...
Re: Success of coffee tek explained? [Re: mycoguy]
    #2768285 - 06/06/04 05:57 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mycoguy said:
almost all of the jars i have done, using WBS soaked in coffee, before PCing have failed. 90% of the jars have come down with sour rot. bacillus. I'm sure as hell not using coffee anymore.




And you attribute your failure to the addition of coffee? I would have to say the bacteria was introduced at one point, or you failed to properly sterilize your WBS. Results like this is how a new craze gets a start. Somebody does a batch of (insert secret ingredient here) that performs well, then raves about it making all sorts of claims. Except your the reverse. Coffee has deterred you from using it again due to your contamination problem.

I want to see a controlled experiment with multiple isolates to be done by one of the fans of coffee. IMO, I think it would have been discovered by now as a supplement if indeed it did increase the growth rate.


--------------------
To give is to live...



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OfflineAeolus1369
Dr. Seahorse
Male

Registered: 05/20/02
Posts: 367
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Success of coffee tek explained? [Re: Sev]
    #2769075 - 06/06/04 03:47 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sev said:
There're also other ingredients in coffee that you'd want to take into account, such as tannins.




An excellent point. Testing the efficacy of coffee and the efficacy of caffeine are two very different experiments.

--Aeolus


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Offline0xYg3n
topdawg
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 18,881
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Success of coffee tek explained? [Re: Aeolus1369]
    #2769131 - 06/06/04 04:10 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

My dad usually saves his old 36 OZ Yuban Columbian Coffee cans for storage purposes. Every so often when I need to use one I open the lid to find out mold has colonized the remainders of the coffee grain. I'm not sure what is in the grain that molds/fungi like, but I definately think it's worth some experiments.

I'm willing to do some coffee grain/caffiene experiments..... whatever the culprit may be.

So how should one plan out an experiment? Obviously the only variables that should change is the coffee grain, caffiene, etc.

Anybody up for some experimenting? All check up on mycotopia.net to see what hippi3 thinks.


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