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OfflineMurphthesurf
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Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction * 1
    #27297124 - 05/06/21 02:28 PM (3 years, 24 days ago)

I've read much here about the lemon tek as well as extraction using 95 proof Everclear grain alcohol, both testimonials as well as skepticism.  Some advocates of lemon tek seem to think that the weakly acidic lemon juice actually converts psilocybin to psilocin, although I've yet to see the evidence. It is also not clear from the posts I've read exactly how complete an extraction of actives this results in. 

Many also believe that eliminating the chitin, fiber and protein of the bulk solid mushroom may help to reduce the sense of body load. It's not clear at all how much existing scientific research has been done on either of these apparent benefits.

The alcohol tek also sounds interesting, although it seems to take much longer than soaking the fruit bodies in lemon juice.  Why spend two days extracting with alcohol if soaking in lemon juice for 30 minutes can achieve the same thing.  Opinions about the alky tek also seem divided by the claim that psilocybin is insoluble in alcohol. 

I know that both of these teks have been discussed a lot.  Unfortunately, there seems to be more controversy than agreement anecdotally, and a lack of definitive scientific evidence.  Any seasoned shroomers care to weigh in?

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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: Murphthesurf]
    #27297201 - 05/06/21 03:20 PM (3 years, 24 days ago)

For a liquid extraction, water works best.
Tea is the fastes way to go that results in a liquid that you then drink. Add lemonjuice to the hot water for best results.

Lemon tek is no more potent or noticably faster than tea. It does not seem to convert psilocybin into psilocin.
Instead, the alkaloids might get partially turned into their citrate form, which has a little higher bioavailability, means it gets absorbed by the stomache faster.
But we talk about seconds or a minute at max when comparing the onset of tea with lemon and tea without lemon. :shrug:

Pure alcohol is no good solvent. A mix of alc and water is needed. But then, it takes days, that's lots of time to degrade the actives already.
Extracts are usually not very stable. You extract to dose immediately so to say. Given that, a tea is far superior to alcohol.

-

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OfflineMurphthesurf
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: Pandemoon]
    #27297337 - 05/06/21 05:17 PM (3 years, 24 days ago)

Thanks for the reply.  Any opinions about how hot the water can be without sacrificing any of the goods, as well as how long to steep?

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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: Murphthesurf]
    #27297384 - 05/06/21 05:52 PM (3 years, 24 days ago)

The melting point of psilocybin is 523.4°C, you can boil shrooms for an hour and nothing will be lost. Water literally can't get hot enough to damage the actives.

Most people steep their shrooms for 10-15 minutes or so though. Seems to work alright.


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.

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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: Northerner]
    #27297469 - 05/06/21 06:45 PM (3 years, 24 days ago)

Tea and Lemon Tek are both great. I say try both and see what you prefer.
For wild found mushrooms I like to think both are good for helping kill any unwanted funk.

Personally I've been on a Lemon Tek kick and my two trip buds also usually want to ingest that way.

Either way I usually still consume the fruit bodies they also seem easier to digest with both methods (I know they say you don't have to eat them but I still do)
:shroomer:


--------------------
"What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:

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InvisibleBlazer420
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: Pandemoon]
    #27297940 - 05/07/21 12:24 AM (3 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Pandemoon said:


Lemon tek is no more potent or noticably faster than tea. It does not seem to convert psilocybin into psilocin.
Instead, the alkaloids might get partially turned into their citrate form, which has a little higher bioavailability, means it gets absorbed by the stomache faster.
But we talk about seconds or a minute at max when comparing the onset of tea with lemon and tea without lemon. :shrug:


-




The underlined statement I would have to disagree on. Me and a buddy dosed 1.5 grams of  P. Papuanas via lemon tek last week and within 5 minutes of ingesting we was already coming up very fast. within 15 minutes we was very much entering the trip and by 45 minutes we was seeing full on oevs over our entire visual field. Tea has never been as fast as a lemon tek has been, tea usually takes 20-40 minutes to even notice any affects. In my experiences anyways.

Lemon tek is all me and my buddy will do from now on, beats that anxious 20-40 minute come up with any other type of ingestion method.


--------------------
~ I used to get high on life, until I realized life was cut with morons ~
* You need 2 wake up and smell the music! *
- We are all computer data in a materialistic world -
| Sometimes you have to lose yourself, to find anything |

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OfflineMurphthesurf
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: Northerner]
    #27297967 - 05/07/21 01:09 AM (3 years, 23 days ago)

Thanks for the feedback, Northerner.  Your quote on the BP of psilocybin might be a little too high, though.  I know that water boils at only 100 deg C.

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OfflineMurphthesurf
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: CHUCK.HNTR]
    #27297974 - 05/07/21 01:15 AM (3 years, 23 days ago)

Thanks for the FB.  I decided to hedge my bets and am going to do BOTH to the same dose of shrooms.  I'll do the lemon thing for 30 minutes, strain into a cup and then put the mushroom residue in a small pot of darjeeling, strain and then mix the tea with the juice.  Probably no more extract, but who knows.  I hate having to make decisions. Call it the fence-sitter tek.

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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: Murphthesurf]
    #27297980 - 05/07/21 01:29 AM (3 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Murphthesurf said:
Thanks for the feedback, Northerner.  Your quote on the BP of psilocybin might be a little too high, though.  I know that water boils at only 100 deg C.



Yeah, just a little too high...lol, I just grabbed the information that Google spat at me immediately in its Google answer box. Seemed off at the time, ya know how it goes :shrug:
PubMed has the solid science on it. Still the point being you can't wreck the actives with water.

Quote:

Murphthesurf said:
Thanks for the FB.  I decided to hedge my bets and am going to do BOTH to the same dose of shrooms.  I'll do the lemon thing for 30 minutes, strain into a cup and then put the mushroom residue in a small pot of darjeeling, strain and then mix the tea with the juice.  Probably no more extract, but who knows.  I hate having to make decisions. Call it the fence-sitter tek.



Have a great time. 

:trippinbawelz:


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.

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InvisibleLeafRaker
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: Northerner]
    #27298150 - 05/07/21 06:54 AM (3 years, 23 days ago)

I thought the whole point of adding acids was to get more of the psilocin into solution, not to alter the psilocin???

The question of how to get both maximum psilocybin AND maximum psilocin into a solution is a minor obsession of mine, as I am hoping to get a season's Gymnopilus subspectabilis's alkaloids, from probably 500-1,500g fruits, into a single drinkable dose. Gymnopilus have low alkaloid %-ages and I *think* much of that is psilocin.

Anyone care to make me smarter?


--------------------
Knowledge is finite, ignorance is infinite.

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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: LeafRaker]
    #27298250 - 05/07/21 08:14 AM (3 years, 23 days ago)

Have a good trip Murph!
One more comment I know some people really struggle with digesting mushroom chitin, however I think there is a lot of conflation between aforementioned scenario, body load, and nausea due to a distribution of equilibrium (straight up seasick symptoms).

Even without ingestion of the fruit bodies people often still have gas like abdominal pressure I think it could just be a symptom of the alkaloids, I usually just try deep breathing through it and it subsides.


--------------------
"What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:

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OfflineMurphthesurf
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: CHUCK.HNTR] * 2
    #27298746 - 05/07/21 02:10 PM (3 years, 23 days ago)

Last night I road tested my idea of doing the lemon tek first, followed by brewing tea with the residue and then making a "cocktail" of the two extracts.  I did this with 3.5 gm B+, exactly the same dose and batch of shrooms that I had used two weeks earlier, when I just used the lemon tek alone.  There was absolutely NO comparison between the two experiences.  The earlier trip was full of nice visuals, a lot of reflection and insights, but absolutely nothing like this, which was the complete dissolution of my ego. I was sure I had physically died, and my concern was what my wife and kids would do without me.  Physical reality itself was totally gone, leaving just a world of energy and consciousness.  The insights were incredible, one of the most profound experiences I have ever had, and that includes many trips on Lucy, peyote and the forgotten Shulgin original DOM (street name STP). Undoubtedly others have used this serial extraction process before, but if you haven't tried it I don't think you'll be disappointed.

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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: Murphthesurf] * 1
    #27298774 - 05/07/21 02:41 PM (3 years, 23 days ago)

There's nothing quite like waking up in the morning when you died the night before.  :awesome:


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.

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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: Northerner]
    #27298789 - 05/07/21 02:59 PM (3 years, 23 days ago)

:awecid:


--------------------
"What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
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InvisibleLeafRaker
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: Murphthesurf]
    #27298838 - 05/07/21 03:33 PM (3 years, 23 days ago)

Since you're selling the results as basically the best thing ever I have to confirm your methods.


1. Lemon Tek, say, 3.5g of B+. (How much water and how much acid and for how long???)

2. Take the fungal matter post Lemon Tek and do a non-acid tea. (Again, any important parameters for quantity of water and time would be helpful).

3. Combine the two extracts.

4. Experience the ne plus ultra psychedelic experience?


--------------------
Knowledge is finite, ignorance is infinite.

Edited by LeafRaker (05/07/21 04:42 PM)

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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: LeafRaker]
    #27298921 - 05/07/21 04:30 PM (3 years, 23 days ago)

:whathesaid: very curious!


--------------------
"What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
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OfflineMurphthesurf
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: LeafRaker] * 1
    #27299144 - 05/07/21 06:43 PM (3 years, 23 days ago)

Here is what I did.  I covered 3.3 gm of dried, ground B+ cubes with exactly 1 cup of lemon juice and let it sit for about 1/2 hour.  I strained the juice and kept it in an air tight container.  I had already made 1 cup of Ginseng Peppermint tea (Republic of Tea) that was still about 125 deg F. when I added the residual pulp to it.  I let it steep for about 20 minutes.  I combined the two extracts and downed it over a period of 5 minutes.  No sweetener needed. It actually tasted very nutritious.  Zero issue with any sort of nausea or cramps, just the very profound experience that I described.

I have to add the caveat that I have never tried just making mushroom tea alone and can't compare the result of that to adding a previous step of extraction using a different solvent, as I did.  Perhaps tea alone would yield the same result.  Years ago people would try to extract THC with a similar two-part procedure using alcohol and then water, before they found out that fats such as butter do a better job. 

I am a relative beginner to the mushroom world and my level of experience is a qualifier, in spite of my gushing testimonial, so your results may vary.

"I know nothing!" (Sgt. Schultz)

Edited by Murphthesurf (05/07/21 06:44 PM)

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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: Murphthesurf]
    #27299152 - 05/07/21 06:47 PM (3 years, 23 days ago)

Damn 1 cup of lemon juice that a whole lotta juice! I usually just squeeze one or two lemons>
:hewut:


--------------------
"What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:

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InvisibleBlazer420
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Re: Lemon tek vs alcohol extraction [Re: CHUCK.HNTR] * 1
    #27299308 - 05/07/21 08:45 PM (3 years, 23 days ago)

1 cup of lemon juice is overkill as fuck lol. Same with letting it sit for over 30 minutes and straining out. All you need to do is squeeze half a lemon into a cup and let it sit for 10-15 minutes, and down the hatch with an extra bit of orange juice to help get it down.


--------------------
~ I used to get high on life, until I realized life was cut with morons ~
* You need 2 wake up and smell the music! *
- We are all computer data in a materialistic world -
| Sometimes you have to lose yourself, to find anything |

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