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Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 158
Last seen: 19 years, 3 months
Psychedelic world, Dream state, and the law.
    #2641602 - 05/05/04 12:25 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

I was wondering if there is any research made about the subject hallucinogens and dream state, because I was wondering that how close the actual trip is to dream state?
What I had in mind was, that I realized that the "safe barrier" that you have while you are experiencing a nightmare (Bad Trip) is actually the dream state itself. When you wake up from the nightmare you were having, you are immediately put back to the "real world", and most people then say or think "oh wonderful it was just a nightmare" which causes the person to put the bad things about the nightmare away from mind. 

Now, after all of this, I believe that if there was a special way to stop the trip exactly when the tripper wants to, there would no longer be need for the criminalization of psychedelics :smile: (Yeah right...)

Okay something related:

Q: Have you ever been woken from nightmare, and been too afraid to get some more sleep right away after it?

Q: Changing emotions (or the "settings" of events)  during trip feels like waking up from dream which puts the bad and unwanted thoughts away right away? (Only to find a new dream soon enough though during real trip).

Now I know these questions are very common, but I'm doing my own little research about human psychology :smile:

- When the time stops, evil ones will be pointed out for all to see.

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Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 537
Re: Psychedelic world, Dream state, and the law. *DELETED* [Re: repemon]
    #2641841 - 05/05/04 01:37 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by freakygurl

Reason for deletion: .

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Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 17
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Psychedelic world, Dream state, and the law. [Re: repemon]
    #2641941 - 05/05/04 02:12 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think they are even remotely the same.

Psychedelics alter the way your brain percieves and processes information, whereas sleeping puts you into another state of conciousness. You wake up from a dream and are able to snap out of it because there isn't a "dream" chemical that pumps through your body to MAKE you dream.

If you can somehow find a way to make your body secrete a chemical that will neutralize the effects of psilocybin, etc, well then...

But last time I checked that was.... whats the word... impossible.

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Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Psychedelic world, Dream state, and the law. [Re: freakygurl]
    #2642048 - 05/05/04 02:47 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Well there are dozens of such papers and articles int he scientific literature iont he stacks at most University libraries. One has to go look for them. They are there.

Here are a few such papers and references.

Clinical Studies in Visual Perception:
Fischer, 1971; Fischer, Hill & Warshay, 1969; Fischer et al., 1969; Fisher et al., 1970; Hill, Fischer & Warshay, 1969; Keeler, 1963; Keeler, 1965a; Keeler, 1965b; Shaffer, Hill & Fischer, 1973; Spitzer et al., 1996; Weber, 1967.
Clinical Studies on Handwriting and Personality Traits:
Esecover, Malitz & Wilkins, 1961; Fischer & Mead, 1966; Spitzer et al., 1996.

Fischer, R. and E. L. Mead. 1966. The contraction and psychomotor performance produced by psilocybin. Nature vol. 209:433-434. January 22.
Handwriting size and new tapping rates are studied in volunteers who were under the influence of psilocybin.

Fisher, R. and E. L. Mead. 1971. A Cartography of the ecstatic and meditative state. Science vol. 174(4012):897-904.
The experimental experiential features of a perceptiona-hallucination continuum are considered.

------. 1979-80. On the arousing effect of hallucinogens or who is under psilocybin. Journal of Altered States of Consciousness vol. 5(4):321-324. Port D'es Conoge, esporles, Mallorca, Spain.
A quote from Robert Grave's personal account of his experience under the influence of psilocybin, exemplifying the arousing effects of the alkaloid on the limbic structures.

Fischer, R. and H. Goldman. 1975. Therapeutic usefulness of hallucinogenic drugs as a function of their chemical structure. Pharmakopsychiat Neuro-Psychopharmakol vol. 8:176-178.

Fischer, R. and D. Warshay. 1969. Psilocybin-induced automatic, perceptual, and behavior change. Pharmakopsychiat Neuro-Psychopharkol vol. 1:291-302.

Fischer, R. with Hill, R. M. and D. Warshay. 1969. Effects of the psychodysleptic drug psilocybin on visual perception. Experientia vol. 25(1):166-168. February 15.
A study on changes in certain perceptual and behavioral parameters which occur during the psychodysleptic or hallucinogenic drug induced state among 15 college volunteers under the influence of psilocybin.

Fischer, R., England, S. M., Archer, R. C., and R. K. Dean. 1963. Psilocybin reactivity and time concentration as measured by psychomotor performance. Arzneimittel forschung vol. 16:180-185. February.
A study of handwriting samples shows that psilocybin produces experiences of time contraction and space expansion which was quantified by comparing finger tapping rates and their varience.

Fischer, R., Hill, R., Thatcher, K., and J. Scheib. 1970. Psilocybin-induced concentration of nearby visual space. Agents and Actions vol. 1:190-197.
Using apparent fronto-parallel plane (APF) monitoring techniques, euclidean visual space is investigated in 16 volunteers under a psilocybin induced ergotropia arousal.

Fischer, R. Kappeler, T., Wisecup, P., and K. Thatcher. 1969. Measurement of handwriting area to the pressure rations during psilocybin included hallucinations. Agents and Actions vol. 1:42-52.
The quantification of the high sensory motor (s/m) ration implicit in a hallucinatory experience is measured by inducing the administration of psilocybin to 16 college age volunteers.

Fischer, R., Kappeler, T.. Wisecup, P., and K. Thatcher. 1970. Personality trait dependent performance under psilocybin. Diseases of the Nervous System vol. 31(2):91-101, 181-192. February-March.
In which drug-induced changes in hand-writing in 16 volunteers under the inffluence of psilocybin is investigated.

Hill, R. M., Fischer, R., and D. Warshay. 1969. Effects of excitatory and tranqualizing drugs on visual perception, spatial distortion thresholds. Experientia vol. 25(2):171-172.
An investigation of changes in spacial distortion threshold (SDT) are monitored in 15 college student volunteers. The perceptual and personality characteristics of these 15 subjects 3(9 men and 6 women) are discussed In: J. Delay et al., (1958) In: Les Champignons Hallucinogenes du Mexique by Roger Heim and R. Gordon Wasson on page 294.

Delay, J., Pichot, P., Lamperiere, Th., Nicolas-Charles, P., and Anne-Marie Quetin. 1958. Etude psycho-physiologique et clinique de la psilocybine. In: Les Champignons Hallucinog?nes du Mexique.
In French.

Keeler, Martin. H. 1963. Inter-relations of the effects of psilocybin on subjective sensation, photopic critical frequency of fusion, and circulating non-essential fatty acids. Experientia vol. 19:37-38.
A study and investigation reporting on the interelation among some of the visual aspects of a psilocybian induced state.

------. 1965a. The effect of psilocybin on a test of after image perception. Psychopharmacologia Vol. 1:131-139.

------. 1965b. Similarity of schizophrenia and the psilocybin syndrome as determined by objective methods. International Journal of Neuropsychiatry vol. 1:630-634. December.
During this investigation, 12 subjects were given an objective psychological test (MMPI) before and during a psilocybin induced state. Questionaires given out to the 12 subjects regarding the unusual visual and somatic effects of the mushrooms were also answered.

Shaffer, J. H., Hill, R. M., and R. Fischer. 1973. Psychophysics of psilocybin and delta 9-tetrahydrocannabinol. Agents and Actions vol. 3(1):48-51.
Visual, tactile and intermodal sensory magnitude estimations were performed by college students prior to and after the oral administration of both psilocybin and/or Delta9-THC.

M. Spitzer; M. Thimm; L. Hermie; P. Holzmann; K.A. Kovar; H. Heimann; E. Gouzoulis-Mayfrank; U. Kischka; F. Schneider. 1996. Increased Activation of Indirect Semantic Associations Under Psilocybin. Biological Psychology Vol. 39(12):1055-1057. June 15 1996.
In this experiment, the researchers found that psilocybin increased this indirect semantic priming ("sweet"-"lemon") while slowing reaction times. In the discussion, they write: "From anecdotal records and very few controlled studies these [hallucinogenic] agents are believed to have subjective effects that sometimes are referred to as "broadening consciousness" and "enhancing creativity" (references in Pletscher and Ladewig 1994). Although most objective measures have failed to support these claims, our data suggest that the agent in fact leads to an increased availability of remote associations and thereby may bring cognitive contents to mind that under normal circumstances remain non-activated; however, the generally decreased psychological performances under hallucinogenic agents suggests that the increased indirect priming effect is due to a decreased capacity to use contextual information for the focusing of semantic processing. Hence, subjectively experienced increases in creativity as well as the broadening of consciousness have been found to parallel decreases in objective performance measures."

Weber, K. 1967. Changes of musical expression under the effect of psilocybine. Schweiz. Arch. Neurol. Neurochir. Psychiatr. Vol 99 (1):176-179.


Now some of these do have graphs of brain activity on certain drugs. These are pertaining to shrooms , but there are dozens of articles in journals of LSD and Mescaline reactions on brain waves. Just go research them at the university nearest you. Thats how I learn many things aboujt shrooms and other drugs.

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Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,285
Loc: oakland
Re: Psychedelic world, Dream state, and the law. [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2642185 - 05/05/04 03:38 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

thanks for all the references, mj... i'll have to hit up the firstsearch database that i happen to "remember" a password for and see which of these articles universities i'm near have copies of...

but probably will have to wait until i visit the states again, as i doubt norwegian universities will have many articles on psilocybine, especially not in english :grin:


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Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Psychedelic world, Dream state, and the law. [Re: Krishna]
    #2643091 - 05/05/04 08:19 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Hey Krishna, Many european libraries have international journals which have articles about psilocybine in them. I find many forign journals in stock here. WE even have some norse papers and Sweedish and Finish articles on Shrooms in the native languages.


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