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Riddle Me This Batman
    #26136022 -

Here’s the riddle:

6-10 days after mixing rye w/ CVG I get fucked by the green. I mean if my soul depended on it I couldn’t will it otherwise err it happens every f”n time.

Ok, so the back drop for yous all to analyze and find a vector

All work is done in front of a flow hood that I’ve open jar w/ agar tested for 10 minutes on several occasions w/ several jars. I mean every step I use the flow hood regardless. Attach syringe, open jars, open spawn bags, mixing spawn bags, err thing

1. Store syringe to rye grain jar. ( rye/ gypsum pressure cooked 18-20 PSI 2hrs)
2. After fully colonized w/ beautiful white; 1 grain is then transferred to an agar jar in front of a flowhood.
3. Once Agar jar is fully colonized w/ beautiful white I then tiger drop the agar into a rye spawn bag (rye/gypsum pressure cooked 18-20 psi 2hrs) in front of a flow hood making sure no sides are touched with the drop on the way in. I then mash up the bag to spread it around.
4. Left to colonize til 40% then I shake it up and spread it all around again.
5. Once its 100% and everything looks pretty white, I let it sit for another 3-4 days just to be sure.
6. Mix (1 coir brick, 1 quart verm, handful of gypsum, 3 quarts of water) in a turkey bag to pasteurize in a boiling pot of water. Temps 140-160 for 90 minutes. Then let it cool over night.
7. Combine above mixture w/ 100% white rye bag in front of flowhood. Again I’m tiger dropping substrate mix into bag and shaking the bag up.
8. And finally a 1 way ticket to fucky fucky green land around day 6-9 err time. :mad2:

Random thoughts:
A. Is it possible the contams are coming from the syringe even though I get beautiful white at 4 different stages?
B. Are the mushroom gods just testing my gangster?
C. Is the pasteurized ation correct you reckon? I mean if it’s not the syringe the it has to be the coir mix right?
D. For the life of me I’m stumped and can’t think of another variable to alter.


Any Advice ,Thoughts ,Voodoo JuJu Magic Welcome

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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: GoogerTheOriginal]
    #26136054 -

here's the only options

not recognizing the contamination on agar after the initial jar is made from syringe

Its getting in while you tiger drop and you're not noticing on grain

There's no point pasteurizing CVG. Coir works hydrated with room temp water, hot water, boiling water, or pasteurized. There's no thermophilic bacteria in the coir to shift the balance of so pasteurization is of no benefit other than heat treated coir works better.

And if you're mixing spawn and Substrate into a turkey bag then tying it off that's  a mold encouraging environment


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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: GoogerTheOriginal]
    #26136064 -

What kinda jar lids are you using?

Post pics of every step or even better take a video.
Most important are your agar and your grain jars.

Why are you germinating spores in grain if you have agar?

You should do 2-3 agar transfers after spore germination, its very likely the SS you’re using has enmeshed trich spores, it can grow alongside myc in a hidden way. And its mycelium is white before it sporulates


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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26136136 -

If I happens at the same stage every time then logically the problem is with that stage . Seems like you are trying to way over complicate things when you're casing, adding extra steps also adds more opportunities for contamination.


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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: AyePlus]
    #26136139 -

Bohdi 2 questions:
1. I do mix colonized rye and cvg in a plastic spawn bag w/ .2 micron filter patches for colonization. Is that really worse off then open air mixing colonized rye and CVG in a tub? I would imagine the environment on the bottom of the tub would be similar to my bag environment?
2. I’m doing my tiger drops in front of a flowhood but it’s possible maybe contams are coming off my arms/hands/ side of bags. But don’t people open air mix 100% colonized rye w/ CVG into a tub without it being an issue ? (one flush wonder style) which I would imagine would expose the grains more so then my methods in theory, erm at least my theory.

Aye 2 things:
1. I use SFD quarter sized with rtv gasket glue for lids. RTV gasket glue for the syringe hole. Maybe that rtv syr hole is a vector but then it still throws me for a loop that the green never exposes itself in those stages even after 7-10 days of growth. But it will expose itself in the spawn stages...  I mean if that was the case wouldn’t it expose itself when I break up the 40% colonized bags?
2. I go from syringe to grains because grains make for easy transfers and storage. I mean you can do a thousand plus transfers from 1 jar. I guess just because of convenience really. I suppose the same could be said of just an agar jar. So I guess it’s really not that much more beneficial just the way I get down.

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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: GoogerTheOriginal]
    #26136146 -

Toxic I’m not sure how I’m over complicating things if anything in my mind I’ve simplified the process as much is conceivable. Not trying to be aggressive or anything. But in your thoughts what’s complicated? Just trying to learn. And I agree I’m theorizing that it’s at the spawn step but Iverun out of ideas on variables to manipulate.

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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: GoogerTheOriginal]
    #26136149 -

Aye: I’ll work on more agar transfers for sure in the future.

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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: GoogerTheOriginal]
    #26136152 -

Some Green contaminants take a while to get to maturity (sporulation) their mycelium is white until that point. You doing transfers and low fae might be keeping it in vegetative growth(white)

You should do a couple agar transfers to be sure your culture is clean. Most say 3+.

You didnt mention if you were using plastic or metal lids. Plastic have imperfect seals and if your enviornment is very dirty and they arent screwed on super tight contaminants can still get in.


If you spawn the germ jar does the same thing happen?


Another possibility is bacterial contamination weakening the myceliums immune system leaving it ripe for other contaminants to take hold

Post pics of agar and grain


--------------------
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C10’s agar guide
Good surface conditions = Good pinsets
Read more, post less.
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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: AyePlus] * 2
    #26136242 -

It’s all speculation without pics. Pics might not definitively help but there has been many a person get away with bacterial jars for a few runs. Bacteria can be super sneaky, it won’t always smell horrible and often we need to look for the target species to exhibit certain growth patterns instead of looking for the bacteria itself. Bacterial spawn is a real mold vector.


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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #26136249 -

Your gangster is being tested.


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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: Jot]
    #26137564 -

You don't need to colonize inside a filter patch bag, that's just a waste of a bag. You can mix your spawn and substrate right in the tub, open air and everything. Assuming your spawn is 100% colonized, the chances of contamination at spawning are close to zero. Spores to grain then to agar is inefficient, but it does work just fine. You could skip the middle step and just do spores to agar, then clean it up through transfers.

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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: MLPismyOPSEC]
    #26137631 -

Faulty flow hood?

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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: Neowynd8]
    #26137789 -

Like MLPismy said colonizing spawn in a bag is unnecessary. Every time you break up the mycelium after which a recovery period happens allowing contamination a chance to take hold. The more you transfer from one container to another the more you risk introducing contamination, even with a flow hood.


--------------------
The goal of life is not to arrive safely at the grave, but rather to slide in side ways yelling " holy crap what a ride".

CAUTION: contents under pressure, highly volatile, may contain language of a vulgar, subversive or blasphemous nature, handle with care, point away from face when opening.

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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #26137919 -

Pastywhyte said:
It’s all speculation without pics. Pics might not definitively help but there has been many a person get away with bacterial jars for a few runs. Bacteria can be super sneaky, it won’t always smell horrible and often we need to look for the target species to exhibit certain growth patterns instead of looking for the bacteria itself. Bacterial spawn is a real mold vector.


No wonder im having trich issues and stuff right now.

bodhisatta said:
There's no point pasteurizing CVG. Coir works hydrated with room temp water, hot water, boiling water, or pasteurized. There's no thermophilic bacteria in the coir to shift the balance of so pasteurization is of no benefit other than heat treated coir works better.



See, that's some myco-bible shit right there.

Edited by Feasoghorm (08/16/19 03:16 AM)

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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: Feasoghorm]
    #26138366 -

Aye:
-I use metal tops.
-I’ll definitely do more transfers from agar in the future to rule that out.
-I never tried spawning the original spore to rye jar that’s a good idea.

Pasty;
-Love you brother we’ve never met your work is appreciated.
- I never thought of bacteria on the sly as a vector so thanks. I imagine that’ll be worked out by doing more agar transfers.

MLPismy;
- I use the spawn bag from the original rye colonization period so it really isn’t a waste of a bag as I’m just adding CVG to it once it hits 100% and letting it re colonize prior to fruiting the reason for this was that I was trying to rule out the open air process of mixing CVG w/ 100% colonized rye in a tub thinking that possibly that’s where my trouble was...  (gotta love run on sentences)

Neowhynd;
-on several occasions I’ve open air tested agar jars in front of the flowhood at different distances/ heights for 10 minute periods with %100 success.


General thoughts;
- I’m leaning towards hidden bacterial issues causing weak mycelium. My next course of action will be more transfers.
- I personally love the idea of using the same filter patch through out the whole process. Reasons being: 1. Less time in open air 2. It saves me from having to clean out tubs. 3. (Here’s the genius part which I feel might convert y’all to my methodology) Once said FPBag is ready to fruit I remove it from the bag and fruit it in the tub as normal thereby gaining 100% Bio Effeciency because there is no wasted growth from side pins as all sides are prime locations and lastly when I’m done with the block I just remove it from tub with no need to clean said tub although it wouldn’t hurt to do some sanitary cleansing every now and again.

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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: GoogerTheOriginal]
    #26138531 -

You're going spores to grain, letting it colonize and then going to agar...its senseless it just makes a mess of things and would be far more productive to start on agar.


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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: GoogerTheOriginal]
    #26138537 -

Quote:
General thoughts;
- I’m leaning towards hidden bacterial issues causing weak mycelium. My next course of action will be more transfers.
- I personally love the idea of using the same filter patch through out the whole process. Reasons being: 1. Less time in open air 2. It saves me from having to clean out tubs. 3. (Here’s the genius part which I feel might convert y’all to my methodology) Once said FPBag is ready to fruit I remove it from the bag and fruit it in the tub as normal thereby gaining 100% Bio Effeciency because there is no wasted growth from side pins as all sides are prime locations and lastly when I’m done with the block I just remove it from tub with no need to clean said tub although it wouldn’t hurt to do some sanitary cleansing every now and again.


So you're trying to fruit it like a giant pf cake? Makes me think your not getting the substrate fully colonized before fruiting.


--------------------
The goal of life is not to arrive safely at the grave, but rather to slide in side ways yelling " holy crap what a ride".

CAUTION: contents under pressure, highly volatile, may contain language of a vulgar, subversive or blasphemous nature, handle with care, point away from face when opening.

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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: Toxic enigma]
    #26139136 -

Cronicr:
-can you elaborate on why it makes a mess of things? And why it would be far more productive to start with agar?
- I can understand the argument that spore>half pint rye jar> agar could potentially be an uneccesary step to some but I personally didn’t think there was much harm in doing so but please correct me if I’m wrong. I just liked the convenience of having a jar with a thousand easy to transfer colonized grains. But again I get that the same could be said of agar.

Toxic:
- Yeah I suppose you could say it’s like a giant pf cake. I’ve seen people doing something similar in a Martha style closet set up. So I figured I’d adopt it to an unbohdified tub. The benefits being easier clean up and 100% bio efficiency.
- As per it not being fully colonized prior to fruiting, that isn’t the case because I haven’t gotten to the fruiting step as of yet. Mean Green rapes me at about 60-80% CVG colonization.

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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: GoogerTheOriginal]
    #26139152 -

Because things like trich spread in grain jars and will be hard to spot if at all, it will mingle it's way through healthy mycelium and you won't see it till u try fruit it.
By the time that jar has colonized you could be on your 4th transfer and well on your way to dozens of clean jars, your first spore drops are your dirtiest samples


--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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Re: Riddle Me This Batman [Re: cronicr]
    #26139331 -

GoogerTheOriginal said:
Toxic:
- Yeah I suppose you could say it’s like a giant pf cake. I’ve seen people doing something similar in a Martha style closet set up. So I figured I’d adopt it to an unbohdified tub. The benefits being easier clean up and 100% bio efficiency.
- As per it not being fully colonized prior to fruiting, that isn’t the case because I haven’t gotten to the fruiting step as of yet. Mean Green rapes me at about 60-80% CVG colonization.


I've not encountered any sort of a tek like what you are talking about, maybe it's something newer that came about in the few years I've been out of the hobby, hopefully someone else can chime in.
  Best hypothesis I can come up with is that by closing the bag back up the spawn creates humidity in the bag that can't vent through the filter, combine that with heat generated by the mycelium growing gives the mold spores a chance to take hold before the mycelium has a chance to out compete it.


--------------------
The goal of life is not to arrive safely at the grave, but rather to slide in side ways yelling " holy crap what a ride".

CAUTION: contents under pressure, highly volatile, may contain language of a vulgar, subversive or blasphemous nature, handle with care, point away from face when opening.

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