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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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side pins, bottom pins everywhere but top pins.
    #26132385 -

got some shoeboxes going and took a closer look at the sides and bottom today and was somewhat dismayed to see that there are indeed pins beginning but they are all along the sides and the bottom. Should I try and flip the substrate or take it out and put it into a FC? Is there something else I am missing? My surface got a little choked out and got some pretty aerial myc going so I made changes and began taking lids off completely and watching the surface moisture pretty closely. Thoughts/ Guidance?

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Re: side pins, bottom pins everywhere but top pins. [Re: bananas16]
    #26132402 -

The better you get at the surface, the less this will happen.

They're there because they like the conditions. Give them a few days to really establish(like 3inches avrge) before you consider flipping or propping it up. You can still let them finish out growing entirely against the walls as well; they'll just be flat and have some substrate stuck to'em you need to clean.


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Re: side pins, bottom pins everywhere but top pins. [Re: bananas16]
    #26132404 -

Are you doing MS or isolate?

If it's MS that is indeed strange,  if it's isolate, could be just the way that one grows.

Anyways, if you see that happening, yes  take it out of shoebox and put in an FC.

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Re: side pins, bottom pins everywhere but top pins. [Re: LtLurker]
    #26132416 -

JohnRainy said:
Are you doing MS or isolate?

If it's MS that is indeed strange,  if it's isolate, could be just the way that one grows.

Anyways, if you see that happening, yes  take it out of shoebox and put in an FC.



LtLurker said:
The better you get at the surface, the less this will happen.

They're there because they like the conditions. Give them a few days to really establish(like 3inches avrge) before you consider flipping or propping it up. You can still let them finish out growing entirely against the walls as well; they'll just be flat and have some substrate stuck to'em you need to clean.


Yea MS Malabar. First foray into anything besides quite a few successful PF ventures. Will hope and pray something changes in a few days if not I flip them and put them in an FC. Thanks for the replies

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Re: side pins, bottom pins everywhere but top pins. [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26132421 -

what he's working with really doesn't matter. This happens while learning to get surface conditions dialed in. Bad surface means the sides will be the best climate to pin and grow.

The reason I don't recommend immediately moving it is because you will change the conditions they like. Sticking it into a larger fc is going to put it in a much drier environment, and the chances of aborts is high if you mess with it that way. Once better established, they will handle a change better. I tend to just prop up a bit in the same container, instead of a dry new chamber.

Semi related, but terms matter. Isolates are a single isolated pair of genetics that would take months(or year) of work to get. Very few people actually mess with isolates, just cause of the amount of work.

/e For future attempts. Shaper's write up on set & forget shoeboxes is great.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26009662/page/1/fpart/1


--------------------
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Edited by LtLurker (08/12/19 03:05 PM)

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Re: side pins, bottom pins everywhere but top pins. [Re: LtLurker]
    #26132426 -

Ive grown different strains under identical conditions and gotten very different fruiting patterns.

Isolates are the term I use for when you clone a mushroom or select a small piece of myc from a petri plate.  What you are talking about is a pure isolate.

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Re: side pins, bottom pins everywhere but top pins. [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26132433 -

What you're talking about is just called a clone.

Yes, different genetics will appear slightly different, but that's not what's at play here. To have pretty much no action on top and it's admittedly low on FAE(therefore low evaporation) are pretty clear signs of environment issues.

To be genetic, the closest example i can think of relevant to this, is being so vigorous it pinned everywhere.


--------------------
Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


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Re: side pins, bottom pins everywhere but top pins. [Re: LtLurker]
    #26132450 -

Wouldn't a low FAE/evaporation problem be more pronounced around the edges and bottom?

Never heard the word clone refer to a sample from a petri plate.

Edited by JohnRainy (08/12/19 03:39 PM)

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Re: side pins, bottom pins everywhere but top pins. [Re: JohnRainy] * 1
    #26132469 -

Can be, also may not be the only problem. What it does tell me for sure is this is not an accurately dialed in tub, so less than ideal performance is to be expected. and there's some playing the odds, this happens a lot; too dry, too wet, too matted, etc so on can all give this result.

Well welcome to shroomery, you'll get used to the lingo soon enough. People are a little more nitpicky about terms around here so we're all on the same page and know what we all mean. Attention to detail is part of what makes this site the most accurate info available.


--------------------
Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


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Re: side pins, bottom pins everywhere but top pins. [Re: LtLurker]
    #26132550 -

I thought that side pins didn't necessarily have much to do with MS or clones or what have you and everything to do with surface conditions. I do have to admit I am flying somewhat blind as all my experiences I am drawing from have to do with PF tek. I'm just gonna wait it out. My place is pretty dry so when I have beads of moisture on the top of the sub and I take the lid off they're gone in about an hour. BUT if I leave the lid on but cracked and on top of the handles there's not enough FAE. So I'm doing my best to just keep taking the lid off letting it dry out some, misting, then putting the lid back on and just doing this every 8 to 12 hours so there's some decent airflow.

They've only been in fruiting do 6 days and were made 12 days ago. Next time I'm just going to put them right into fruiting.

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Re: side pins, bottom pins everywhere but top pins. [Re: bananas16]
    #26132563 -

I had the same problem. SharperDreaming suggested my coir was too wet. I followed her coir prep: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26043706 and now only have surface pins. Aim for your coir to be on the drier side, just under field capacity. So also mist less.

:rockon:


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Edited by ChardRich (08/12/19 04:55 PM)

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Re: side pins, bottom pins everywhere but top pins. [Re: ChardRich]
    #26132581 -

I hear ya. It'll take a little practice to get down. So you're going from on to completely off? There's some inbetweens you could try, like flipping the lid upside down, or skewing your lid a little bit(rotate), or a dub tub(second tub on top). All of those should allow more FAE than just a loose lid right-side up.

Some places are just too dry to completely leave it lidless.


--------------------
Space Ape Project
Links For Getting Started
Current PF Tek
Shoebox Assembly
All The Agar Info You Could Want
How It Should & Shouldn't Look


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: side pins, bottom pins everywhere but top pins. [Re: LtLurker]
    #26132621 -

LtLurker said:
I hear ya. It'll take a little practice to get down. So you're going from on to completely off? There's some inbetweens you could try, like flipping the lid upside down, or skewing your lid a little bit(rotate), or a dub tub(second tub on top). All of those should allow more FAE than just a loose lid right-side up.

Some places are just too dry to completely leave it lidless.


So I've got 4 shoeboxes. 2 are dub tubbed and I wish I had done it with all of them. The 2 dubs are doing better than the other 2. And I would dub the other 2 but they're the snap lock kids (I actually think they're the same as in shaperdreaming's thread) It's just a bitch and a half to keep the conditions correct in those for me. The dubtubs have no side pins and no pins at all. The snap lock lids have side pins and bottom pins and those 2 shoeboxes are the ones that I think got too little FAE. It's for sure a learning curve but hey the best way to learn is by doing right?

I read Bods easy AF shoeboxes TEK and shaperdreaming's. Went with bods without plastic bags and with lids and that may be what's messing with being able to keep surface conditions in check.

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Re: side pins, bottom pins everywhere but top pins. [Re: JohnRainy]
    #26132629 -

Side pins happen because the conditions were more ideal on the sides. Clones and isolates are more consistent for yield, and have nothing to do with side pins. If you have a good clone with better conditions on the sides, you’ll generally have a better yield from side pins rather than an MS wth side pins. If you have an epic clone with perfect surface conditions, you’ll generally have better yield than with MS. Both of them will only pin on the surface tho. Clones and isolates are better (not always better) more consistent for yield.

JohnRainy said:
Ive grown different strains under identical conditions and gotten very different fruiting patterns.

Isolates are the term I use for when you clone a mushroom or select a small piece of myc from a petri plate.  What you are talking about is a pure isolate.


A pure isolate is an isolate. Your definition of isolate is actually 2 different terms. Mushroom tissue is a clone. Small sections taken from an MS plate is just limited MS. A pure isolate is an isolate.


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Re: side pins, bottom pins everywhere but top pins. [Re: bananas16]
    #26132632 -

You can use a grocery bag on top with a few pin holes if you can't dub and want to.


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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24297804

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Re: side pins, bottom pins everywhere but top pins. [Re: bananas16]
    #26132651 -

I have come to regard genetics as the most determining factor in the quality of a grow as long as the environmental conditions are reasonable.

Ive had clones that pumped out canopies despite neglect and less than ideal conditions.  Ive had shoeboxes of different clones side by side in the same FC display wildly different fruiting patterns, for example strictly top fruiting only right beside mostly side fruiting ones...

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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