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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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what is thought * 1
    #26012533 -

Do you ever wonder?


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: what is thought [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26012549 -

All the time. Most of the time its just me; or so I think, just rustling around in the data I have, trying to come up with some sort of form.

Other times, esp. on Psychedellics... when you hear voices sometimes, separate from your source thought; really revs my jets; aliens? entities? the intercom from the AI overlords/simluation GM's. THE source?


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Now pick me up night and whirlwind and let me ride with you to peace of mind and nothing to rebel...

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Re: what is thought [Re: GrimTroll]
    #26012557 -

Thought is awareness.

I am aware, therefor I think.

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Re: what is thought [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26012595 -

Give an object awareness and a sense of pain and it will prolong it's useful existence.

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Re: what is thought [Re: redgreenvines] * 4
    #26012632 -

Biologically and culturally, thought is the function of the mind built up by the manipulation of artifacts by the dexterous hands alongside the articulated use of the larynx, aka human speech. Remember, thought is basically internal speech. All this gives rise to the dialectic, whereby we create new thoughts by novel unifications of theses and antitheses into sytheses, and on and on. Where it gets tricky is when we consider the fact that thought is not mechanistic, but conscious. It is in this organic awareness that the mystery lies.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: what is thought [Re: DividedQuantum] * 2
    #26013143 -

It's awareness and I don't believe there's anything other than awareness.

Nothing can be destroyed.

Everything that is, is.

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Re: what is thought [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26013249 -

thought is an obstacle in the way of enlightenment

your mind will always interrupt your spirit and it must be muted


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Re: what is thought [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26013360 -

The brain and all its attachments are a conscious mechanism. To conquer all there is to know.

We can use it for much much more but that is the purpose as far as I see it.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: what is thought [Re: GrimTroll] * 1
    #26013911 -

Grimm Troll: I think you are very close, and while speculating about alien entities you make no unreasonable claims - "rustling through data (memories)"

Buster Brown: "Thought is awareness. I am aware, therefor I think. "
what is awareness? your definition is an equation to an undefined term.

Divided Quantum: when you say "the manipulation of artifacts by the dexterous hands alongside the articulated use of the larynx" you seem to be onto something, but it falls apart as you obfuscate any mechanism from yourself using this steam age idea (IDEA NOT FACT) that verges on spiritualism - "the fact that thought is not mechanistic, but conscious. It is in this organic awareness that the mystery lies."

Duncan Rowhl: you are in a cult "Nothing can be destroyed." How does that help in understanding what thought is.

yeah: when you say, "your mind will always interrupt your spirit and it must be muted", I presume that you mean that thought is mind, and it is other than spirit, and that you wish you had more spirit and less mind - this is a cultish way of thinking in my opinion.

Sudly: "To conquer all there is to know." Genghis khan would love you.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: what is thought [Re: yeah]
    #26013975 -

yeah said:
thought is an obstacle in the way of enlightenment



I dont consider them as obstacle, but more of a guide.

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Re: what is thought [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26013976 -

thought is a origin of Thoughts that are informations for expression of (artistic)-self.

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Re: what is thought [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26014442 -

redgreenvines said:
Duncan Rowhl: you are in a cult "Nothing can be destroyed." How does that help in understanding what thought is.




To extract an accessory comment subsequent to a relevant answer, is a cult in itself, and an ineffective one in a forum of debate. :thumbup:

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Re: what is thought [Re: pacmanbreed]
    #26014511 -

the reference to attention and awareness, to me, seems like the essential ethological concept of "Flight Zone" to an animal.

Quote:
Google/Wikipedia link
'The flight zone is the distance within which a person can approach an animal before it moves away. Herd animals usually turn and face a potential threat when it is outside of their flight zone, but when it enters the flight zone, the animal turns and moves away.'





In this image all members of the herd share a sense of flight zone permitting
other herd members or no observable creature/person. It also appears that,
the people around whom the circle forms, are projecting the circle, the circle
is actually an artifact of the sheep behaving normally and excluding undesirables
using the same sense of safe distance


This seems to be about the boundary of self/herd and other, all that is within is good/safe, and all that is without might be a threat/unsafe.

If this behavioral mental process is extended to humans, then it could well map into what people are calling awareness, or sense of self, as a subset of things to consider, or things that one should attend, a circle around which one should promote the attention or alertness to flow around.

Again I am using words that are not fully defined to help describe something we are familiar with yet that no one has quite explained satisfactorily, however, I think that by looking at what we find in animals and mapping it to ourselves, there is a great opportunity for discovery.

So if thinking includes all sensations, linked memories, connecting (i.e. an ongoing stream of mental objects in response to the world and linking to more so as to keep the stream moving) then awareness is the centered core of that process, where we allow a sense of defensible self.
Awareness would be some mental sphere that may move around mental formations and sensations, but which takes us or makes us happen where ever it should roll.

Many people seem to think this is true, and equate Consciousness to Awareness, because there is a distinction between what we are concerned about (i.e. mental object activity in the flight zone), and Subconsciousness which is commonly accepted as thought that we are not aware of (basically mental object activity that is NOT in the flight zone).

my own take is that consciousness includes all mental forms that arise (sensation and linked from memory) even if they are not safe, so what is called subconscious is not really excluded from consciousness, but may be avoided/suppressed and that this avoidance too is still part of consciousness, as is the sub-process of evaluating herd members (safe) and non-herd members (unsafe).


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: what is thought [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26015090 -

thought is a way to intuitively measure something..

Whether qualitatively or quantitatively


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Thank you for your Time...

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Re: what is thought [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26015146 -

redgreenvines, your last post basically can be described as a nuance of substance theory via Spinoza.

motion, and 'awareness ball' "moving" via external bodies qua memories/perceptions, et al, "with consciousness" [or "through it", you don't really tell]...all of substance theory is there, relatively speaking.

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Re: what is thought [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26017513 -

Quote:
redgreenvines said: Sudly: "To conquer all there is to know." Genghis khan would love you.



Maybe you are right.



Now that you’ve brought up the flight zone, it’s interesting to mention there’s evidence to suggest it can change or adapt over time for the same species within different environments.

As exampled by this study that outlines how magpies can become habituated to urban environments from rural ones.

It is shown how the distance at which the birds project the flight zone onto people is dramatically decreased as they lose their fear of people.

Quote:
The flight-initiation distance, alert distance and several dependent variables were measured to examine the tolerance of Australian Magpies Gymnorhina tibicen towards an approaching human. Comparisons were made between Magpie populations located at differing points along the urban gradient. The results show a high degree of intraspecific variation in the responses to humans. Magpies living in urbanised areas, where more frequent human contacts are experienced, responded in a highly habituated manner, whereas Magpies located in rural and semi-natural areas gave a typical fear response when a human approached them. Furthermore, following an approach by a human, the Magpies in rural and semi-natural areas always flew away and remained absent for some time. In contrast, Magpies in urbanised areas either flew away or walked away, often only a short distance. A small percentage of suburban Magpies responded in a highly aggressive manner and attacked the human intruder; such aggressive behaviours were not observed in Magpies located in rural or semi-natural areas.

Tolerance of Australian Magpies Gymnorhina tibicen Towards Humans: A Comparison Along an Urban Gradient, p. 29-35
D. J. ROLLINSON, D. N. JONES






Quote:
These abilities have been a clear advantage in their successful exploitation of the human-dominated environment. It has allowed them access to new food resources (by foraging on crowded lawns, school-yards and bird-tables close to people, for example) while remaining only moderately attentive. It has also enabled them to build nests and raise their young in places full of people and their associated disturbances (dogs, cats, cars and kids) without being overly worried.

Magpies may be tame and seemingly fearless, but they still face serious dangers in the suburbs from a variety of enemies. As we all know, magpies are very capable of looking after themselves!




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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: what is thought [Re: sudly] * 1
    #26017534 -

The question "what is thought" is the same question as "what is happening", "what is this experience called our life", "what is reality" and "why any of this?"

Because thought is somehow primary to what reality becomes in a mind's senses.

The people here saying thought is just an obstacle to enlightenment are on to something, don't brush them off as cultish. At least read David Godman's "Be As You Are" or research Ramana Maharshi.


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Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?

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Re: what is thought [Re: beforethedawn]
    #26018770 -

so many different ways to tie a good knot!


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: what is thought [Re: beforethedawn]
    #26020599 -

Why don’t you do some research on your man and share with us what you’ve found on the subject? Maybe something about adhyaropa-apavaada or the likes.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


Edited by sudly (05/29/19 09:28 PM)

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Re: what is thought [Re: sudly] * 1
    #26020922 -

The moment is nested in several timeframes (the moment itself, working memory, the day, etc) each building a sort of composite context but having their own distinct influence on it. Thought, as I see it, is the internal stabilization of the influence each timeframe has on the composite such that the value of each moment is maximized. Clarity of the moment and accuracy of placement is hindered by a disordered composite.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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