RydawgSupreme said:

Think of any piece of art that has had a moderate to great amount of time put into it, it provides so much interpretatiion of ideas that the english language never will be capable of! Art is the only true language( art encompasses music and digital forms, also. as well as physical forms of art (painting, etc))

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Art is not just the only true language, it is the only true state of being for the entire universe.

Art is expression. Every single aspect of reality is an expession. Every action we carry out is an expression of ourselves. Every thought is an expression. Consciously or subconsciously, in every single moment we exist as an expression of ourself, we change as a result of the manner in which we interact with our environment, with the rest of the universe. I think it will also be found that conscious expression usually carries with it more depth and meaning.

I cannot find any true mechanism that can compare and contrast one form of expression agansit another and rank them according to some scale. Obviously we have our conventional mechanisms that serve some purpose within our lives, but the point is that, on a more aware, more-encompassing scale, none exists. To say a painting means more than an exercpt of writing speaks nothing of either's true nature and state of existance.


Peace.

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but anyone who has read a great book can verify that it communicates depthly ideas just as grand as any art peice, if not grander in an observable, quantifiable sense.

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art is too subjective of an experience to create the massive social waves that emanate from literature.

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Cinema however is on near equal terms due to its reliance on grand narrative.

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Art is not just the only true language, it is the only true state of being for the entire universe.

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Art is expression. Every single aspect of reality is an expession. Every action we carry out is an expression of ourselves. Every thought is an expression. Consciously or subconsciously, in every single moment we exist as an expression of ourself, we change as a result of the manner in which we interact with our environment, with the rest of the universe. I think it will also be found that conscious expression usually carries with it more depth and meaning.

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spud said:

I see mathematics as far more of a "true language".

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Until photography and the advent of impressionism, art was mostly prescriptive representations of the world with no interpretations involved, nor expression. Even religious art lacked self expression since it was dictated from text.

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I'm not simply referring to the human category of art in the classical sense, I am referring to the nature of expression and of existance that said conventional category of art is a part of. When I shift my body weight further back into my chair, that is expression. When the leaves on the tree outside my window rustle in the wind, that is an expression of both the properties and the states of being of that tree and the forces responsible for the phenomenon of the wind.

Expression is the change that subsequents itself from the interaction of two aspects of reality. An idea that has ran through this thread in parts is that language is not an art, but the idea of applying meaning to some aspect of reality (a sound, a form) is art. Communication is art. Calligraphy is art. Breathing is art. The simple fact that I am being here is art at its finest.

Obviously, there is a difference between our classical, conventional sense of what art is, and the universal art that I speak of, but taking a look at the principle of what our conventional art is logically extends that concept to pertain to any movement at all, any action at all, any state of existance at all.




Peace.

spud said:

By definition, expression does not mean that. I think you are confusing expression with effect or consequence. Expression requires consciousness.

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Perhaps you should look into the defintion of expression, then.




ex?pres?sion    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (k-sprshn)
n.
1. The act of expressing, conveying, or representing in words, art, music, or movement; a manifestation: an expression of rural values.

2. Something that expresses or communicates: Let this plaque serve as an expression of our esteem.

3. Mathematics. A symbol or combination of symbols that represents a quantity or a relationship between quantities.

4. The manner in which one expresses oneself, especially in speaking, depicting, or performing.

6. The outward manifestation of a mood or a disposition: My tears are an expression of my grief.

7. A facial aspect or a look that conveys a special feeling: an expression of scorn.



In definition one, the dictionary used a phrase, "an expression of rural values". The expression is of rural values, and rural values are not something that could be said to have a consciousness, in the traditional sense. The mathematical definition suggests that an expression can be a representation of something, which includes a representation of the effects of two forces interacting, perhaps?

Definition number six implys that an expression can be the summation of, say, someone's mood. This means that, for instance, the manner in which one acts can be said to be an expression of what would cause the person to act in that manner.

Definition number four defines an expression as being the manner in which one expresses oneself, and cites, as an example, how one speaks or performs. This form of expression is a result of the way a person interacts with his environment, the way he takes action. For example, as I said earlier, if I were to shift my posture further into the back of my chair, and then use my neck muscles to raise my neck and shift my neck into a more proper alignment with my back, that is expression.

These definitions, straight from  Dictionary.com, serve as a clear and vivid demonstration of how expression is not simply requiring consciousness, or that I am merely confusing the word expression with effect, or consequence. Expression is something that does not need a conscious creator, it can be anything.

Every action carried out in the universe is an expression. Every state of existance, of being, is an expression. It doesn't matter if it a conscious expression or not. Reality is art expressing itself. 


Peace.

spud said:

I'm not even going to bother reading that because you cited a dictionary. I was talking about expression in art, ie. expressionism.

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I'm not even going to bother reading your post because you cited my citing a dictionary. 

The whole fucking point was that you told me, by definition, expression is not what I declared it to be. I thought it to be a logical step to actually refer to the very definition that you spoke of. I thereby demonstrated how the definition of the word expression definitely is what I declared it to be.

I don't see how you were specifically refering to Expressionism, considering the fact that you proposed that I was confusing expression with consequence or effect, that expression requires consciousness. Your context suggests otherwise, man.


Peace.