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OfflineDroz
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Without hate...
    #2601521 - 04/25/04 05:16 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I hate my usual routine of going to work to spend all my money sort of thing, but i'm so use to it that it doesn't really bother me. I hate when my girlfriend does strange things to piss me off. I hate those people that are racists. Maybe i lack something that would be enjoyable in my life. I play a lot of video games as my main hobby, sitting in front of a computer most of the time can get pretty boring. Hate the times i get so bored that i start pacing around my own house. Without the hate what would there be? I hate the fact that i have tons of work to do on my car but wish it was finished already. I hate that i'm looking for more, yet always find more, but still seem to hate. I anxiously await a good job and better things and hate the fact that i wish there were more then just things in this world. Of course there is love and light. I have a good girlfriend but it's usually the spending money to me that is something i ponder about the most. Wish there were more in this world. Something deep and meaningful. I've been going to church with her, something i don't normally do. Just as something to do. Don't find much meaning in church, but i go for her sake. If there was love instead of all this hate maybe i'd be content doing the things i do. I'd rather be building a house near a river and spending my time adventuring around it. One day i'll get there but hate the time in between.  :smile: This discussion doesn't really involve around hate, but more around personal things. Sometimes work seems to be enjoyable just for something to do other then what i usually do.

Does anyone have a current situation that they are content with, but seem to sort of hate it? I'd like to hear about it. I'm in the mood for finding peace with what i have now to cope with the situation until i find myself fishing in a river and growing some crops in my back yard, while i build a gazeebo and fill it with birds. Maybe i'll build some wonderful things some day, always fun to make plans no matter if i really am going to accomplish them or not.

Just a reminder, this isn't extreme hate or anything, just wanted a little discussion on what you guys have done for activities in such to have something to do in this world.

Peace,  :grin:
Droz


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Evolution of Time.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Without hate... [Re: Droz]
    #2601629 - 04/25/04 06:14 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Well... as I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm thinking of going to India as a volunteer, with my best friend. After having worked there for a while, we would be exploring the rest of Asia and possibly South America as well. I'm still doubting whether I should do that.
Why would I want to abandon my life here and go elsewhere? Here goes. I'm currently studying to become a high school teacher. Every time I've got money, I spend it, then work for some more. Same routine, all over again.
I play in two bands, and while our music isn't that bad and I enjoy composing for and playing in them, I think, ultimately, they're a dead end. So - inspired by your post - I could say I'm still in those bands because I need something to do.
The friend I'm planning on leaving the West with and I have begun writing a novel. The idea is to portray and criticise society in a utopic setting in the future. Think along the lines of Huxley's Brave New World and Island, Orwell's Animal Farm and 1984. Perhaps here, too, I am searching for a higher purpose, but at least for now, just spending my time.
Not that I'm not content of life in general, but I feel there must be more out there to be experienced. I'm not talking drugs per se, I wouldn't have to leave the West to explore the nature's neurochemical potential. I just want... something significant. I feel like everything I've accomplished now will return to dust 5 years past my unfortunate demise, tops. I don't think I'm looking for immortality in any form, I just want an experience that will soothe me, allow me to settle, and retire. Hope that made any sense, I'm :stoned:


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


Edited by Alan Stone (04/25/04 06:15 PM)


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Without hate... [Re: Droz]
    #2601716 - 04/25/04 07:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

this is an excerpt from: http://www.panix.com/~clays/Una/index.html

THE POWER PROCESS

33. Human beings have a need (probably based in biology) for something that we will call the "power process." This is closely related to the need for power (which is widely recognized) but is not quite the same thing. The power process has four elements. The three most clear-cut of these we call goal, effort and attainment of goal. (Everyone needs to have goals whose attainment requires effort, and needs to succeed in attaining at least some of his goals.) The fourth element is more difficult to define and may not be necessary for everyone. We call it autonomy and will discuss it later (paragraphs 42-44).

34. Consider the hypothetical case of a man who can have anything he wants just by wishing for it. Such a man has power, but he will develop serious psychological problems. At first he will have a lot of fun, but by and by he will become acutely bored and demoralized. Eventually he may become clinically depressed. History shows that leisured aristocracies tend to become decadent. This is not true of fighting aristocracies that have to struggle to maintain their power. But leisured, secure aristocracies that have no need to exert themselves usually become bored, hedonistic and demoralized, even though they have power. This shows that power is not enough. One must have goals toward which to exercise one's power.

35. Everyone has goals; if nothing else, to obtain the physical necessities of life: food, water and whatever clothing and shelter are made necessary by the climate. But the leisured aristocrat obtains these things without effort. Hence his boredom and demoralization.

36. Nonattainment of important goals results in death if the goals are physical necessities, and in frustration if nonattainment of the goals is compatible with survival. Consistent failure to attain goals throughout life results in defeatism, low self-esteem or depression.

37. Thus, in order to avoid serious psychological problems, a human being needs goals whose attainment requires effort, and he must have a reasonable rate of success in attaining his goals.
SURROGATE ACTIVITIES

38. But not every leisured aristocrat becomes bored and demoralized. For example, the emperor Hirohito, instead of sinking into decadent hedonism, devoted himself to marine biology, a field in which he became distinguished. When people do not have to exert themselves to satisfy their physical needs they often set up artificial goals for themselves. In many cases they then pursue these goals with the same energy and emotional involvement that they otherwise would have put into the search for physical necessities. Thus the aristocrats of the Roman Empire had their literary pretentions; many European aristocrats a few centuries ago invested tremendous time and energy in hunting, though they certainly didn't need the meat; other aristocracies have competed for status through elaborate displays of wealth; and a few aristocrats, like Hirohito, have turned to science.

39. We use the term "surrogate activity" to designate an activity that is directed toward an artificial goal that people set up for themselves merely in order to have some goal to work toward, or let us say, merely for the sake of the "fulfillment" that they get from pursuing the goal. Here is a rule of thumb for the identification of surrogate activities. Given a person who devotes much time and energy to the pursuit of goal X, ask yourself this: If he had to devote most of his time and energy to satisfying his biological needs, and if that effort required him to use his physical and mental facilities in a varied and interesting way, would he feel seriously deprived because he did not attain goal X? If the answer is no, then the person's pursuit of a goal X is a surrogate activity. Hirohito's studies in marine biology clearly constituted a surrogate activity, since it is pretty certain that if Hirohito had had to spend his time working at interesting non-scientific tasks in order to obtain the necessities of life, he would not have felt deprived because he didn't know all about the anatomy and life-cycles of marine animals. On the other hand the pursuit of sex and love (for example) is not a surrogate activity, because most people, even if their existence were otherwise satisfactory, would feel deprived if they passed their lives without ever having a relationship with a member of the opposite sex. (But pursuit of an excessive amount of sex, more than one really needs, can be a surrogate activity.)

40. In modern industrial society only minimal effort is necessary to satisfy one's physical needs. It is enough to go through a training program to acquire some petty technical skill, then come to work on time and exert very modest effort needed to hold a job. The only requirements are a moderate amount of intelligence, and most of all, simple OBEDIENCE. If one has those, society takes care of one from cradle to grave. (Yes, there is an underclass that cannot take physical necessities for granted, but we are speaking here of mainstream society.) Thus it is not surprising that modern society is full of surrogate activities. These include scientific work, athletic achievement, humanitarian work, artistic and literary creation, climbing the corporate ladder, acquisition of money and material goods far beyond the point at which they cease to give any additional physical satisfaction, and social activism when it addresses issues that are not important for the activist personally, as in the case of white activists who work for the rights of nonwhite minorities. These are not always pure surrogate activities, since for many people they may be motivated in part by needs other than the need to have some goal to pursue. Scientific work may be motivated in part by a drive for prestige, artistic creation by a need to express feelings, militant social activism by hostility. But for most people who pursue them, these activities are in large part surrogate activities. For example, the majority of scientists will probably agree that the "fulfillment" they get from their work is more important than the money and prestige they earn.

41. For many if not most people, surrogate activities are less satisfying than the pursuit of real goals ( that is, goals that people would want to attain even if their need for the power process were already fulfilled). One indication of this is the fact that, in many or most cases, people who are deeply involved in surrogate activities are never satisfied, never at rest. Thus the money-maker constantly strives for more and more wealth. The scientist no sooner solves one problem than he moves on to the next. The long-distance runner drives himself to run always farther and faster. Many people who pursue surrogate activities will say that they get far more fulfillment from these activities than they do from the "mundane" business of satisfying their biological needs, but that it is because in our society the effort needed to satisfy the biological needs has been reduced to triviality. More importantly, in our society people do not satisfy their biological needs AUTONOMOUSLY but by functioning as parts of an immense social machine. In contrast, people generally have a great deal of autonomy in pursuing their surrogate activities. have a great deal of autonomy in pursuing their surrogate activities.
AUTONOMY

42. Autonomy as a part of the power process may not be necessary for every individual. But most people need a greater or lesser degree of autonomy in working toward their goals. Their efforts must be undertaken on their own initiative and must be under their own direction and control. Yet most people do not have to exert this initiative, direction and control as single individuals. It is usually enough to act as a member of a SMALL group. Thus if half a dozen people discuss a goal among themselves and make a successful joint effort to attain that goal, their need for the power process will be served. But if they work under rigid orders handed down from above that leave them no room for autonomous decision and initiative, then their need for the power process will not be served. The same is true when decisions are made on a collective bases if the group making the collective decision is so large that the role of each individual is insignificant [5]

43. It is true that some individuals seem to have little need for autonomy. Either their drive for power is weak or they satisfy it by identifying themselves with some powerful organization to which they belong. And then there are unthinking, animal types who seem to be satisfied with a purely physical sense of power(the good combat soldier, who gets his sense of power by developing fighting skills that he is quite content to use in blind obedience to his superiors).

44. But for most people it is through the power process-having a goal, making an AUTONOMOUS effort and attaining t the goal-that self-esteem, self-confidence and a sense of power are acquired. When one does not have adequate opportunity to go throughout the power process the consequences are (depending on the individual and on the way the power process is disrupted) boredom, demoralization, low self-esteem, inferiority feelings, defeatism, depression, anxiety, guilt, frustration, hostility, spouse or child abuse, insatiable hedonism, abnormal sexual behavior, sleep disorders, eating disorders, etc. [6]

SOURCES OF SOCIAL PROBLEMS

45. Any of the foregoing symptoms can occur in any society, but in modern industrial society they are present on a massive scale. We aren't the first to mention that the world today seems to be going crazy. This sort of thing is not normal for human societies. There is good reason to believe that primitive man suffered from less stress and frustration and was better satisfied with his way of life than modern man is. It is true that not all was sweetness and light in primitive societies. Abuse of women and common among the Australian aborigines, transexuality was fairly common among some of the American Indian tribes. But is does appear that GENERALLY SPEAKING the kinds of problems that we have listed in the preceding paragraph were far less common among primitive peoples than they are in modern society.

46. We attribute the social and psychological problems of modern society to the fact that that society requires people to live under conditions radically different from those under which the human race evolved and to behave in ways that conflict with the patterns of behavior that the human race developed while living under the earlier conditions. It is clear from what we have already written that we consider lack of opportunity to properly experience the power process as the most important of the abnormal conditions to which modern society subjects people. But it is not the only one. Before dealing with disruption of the power process as a source of social problems we will discuss some of the other sources.

47. Among the abnormal conditions present in modern industrial society are excessive density of population, isolation of man from nature, excessive rapidity of social change and the break-down of natural small-scale communities such as the extended family, the village or the tribe.

48. It is well known that crowding increases stress and aggression. The degree of crowding that exists today and the isolation of man from nature are consequences of technological progress. All pre-industrial societies were predominantly rural. The industrial Revolution vastly increased the size of cities and the proportion of the population that lives in them, and modern agricultural technology has made it possible for the Earth to support a far denser population than it ever did before. (Also, technology exacerbates the effects of crowding because it puts increased disruptive powers in people's hands. For example, a variety of noise-making devices: power mowers, radios, motorcycles, etc. If the use of these devices is unrestricted, people who want peace and quiet are frustrated by the noise. If their use is restricted, people who use the devices are frustrated by the regulations... But if these machines had never been invented there would have been no conflict and no frustration generated by them.)

49. For primitive societies the natural world (which usually changes only slowly) provided a stable framework and therefore a sense of security. In the modern world it is human society that dominates nature rather than the other way around, and modern society changes very rapidly owing to technological change. Thus there is no stable framework.

50. The conservatives are fools: They whine about the decay of traditional values, yet they enthusiastically support technological progress and economic growth. Apparently it never occurs to them that you can't make rapid, drastic changes in the technology and the economy of a society with out causing rapid changes in all other aspects of the society as well, and that such rapid changes inevitably break down traditional values.

51.The breakdown of traditional values to some extent implies the breakdown of the bonds that hold together traditional small-scale social groups. The disintegration of small-scale social groups is also promoted by the fact that modern conditions often require or tempt individuals to move to new locations, separating themselves from their communities. Beyond that, a technological society HAS TO weaken family ties and local communities if it is to function efficiently. In modern society an individual's loyalty must be first to the system and only secondarily to a small-scale community, because if the internal loyalties of small-scale small-scale communities were stronger than loyalty to the system, such communities would pursue their own advantage at the expense of the system.

52. Suppose that a public official or a corporation executive appoints his cousin, his friend or his co-religionist to a position rather than appointing the person best qualified for the job. He has permitted personal loyalty to supersede his loyalty to the system, and that is "nepotism" or "discrimination," both of which are terrible sins in modern society. Would-be industrial societies that have done a poor job of subordinating personal or local loyalties to loyalty to the system are usually very inefficient. (Look at Latin America.) Thus an advanced industrial society can tolerate only those small-scale communities that are emasculated, tamed and made into tools of the system. [7]

53. Crowding, rapid change and the breakdown of communities have been widely recognized as sources of social problems. but we do not believe they are enough to account for the extent of the problems that are seen today.

54. A few pre-industrial cities were very large and crowded, yet their inhabitants do not seem to have suffered from psychological problems to the same extent as modern man. In America today there still are uncrowded rural areas, and we find there the same problems as in urban areas, though the problems tend to be less acute in the rural areas. Thus crowding does not seem to be the decisive factor.

55. On the growing edge of the American frontier during the 19th century, the mobility of the population probably broke down extended families and small-scale social groups to at least the same extent as these are broken down today. In fact, many nuclear families lived by choice in such isolation, having no neighbors within several miles, that they belonged to no community at all, yet they do not seem to have developed problems as a result.

56. Furthermore, change in American frontier society was very rapid and deep. A man might be born and raised in a log cabin, outside the reach of law and order and fed largely on wild meat; and by the time he arrived at old age he might be working at a regular job and living in an ordered community with effective law enforcement. This was a deeper change that that which typically occurs in the life of a modern individual, yet it does not seem to have led to psychological problems. In fact, 19th century American society had an optimistic and self-confident tone, quite unlike that of today's society. [8]

57. The difference, we argue, is that modern man has the sense (largely justified) that change is IMPOSED on him, whereas the 19th century frontiersman had the sense (also largely justified) that he created change himself, by his own choice. Thus a pioneer settled on a piece of land of his own choosing and made it into a farm through his own effort. In those days an entire county might have only a couple of hundred inhabitants and was a far more isolated and autonomous entity than a modern county is. Hence the pioneer farmer participated as a member of a relatively small group in the creation of a new, ordered community. One may well question whether the creation of this community was an improvement, but at any rate it satisfied the pioneer's need for the power process.

58. It would be possible to give other examples of societies in which there has been rapid change and/or lack of close community ties without he kind of massive behavioral aberration that is seen in today's industrial society. We contend that the most important cause of social and psychological problems in modern society is the fact that people have insufficient opportunity to go through the power process in a normal way. We don't mean to say that modern society is the only one in which the power process has been disrupted. Probably most if not all civilized societies have interfered with the power ' process to a greater or lesser extent. But in modern industrial society the problem has become particularly acute. Leftism, at least in its recent (mid-to-late -20th century) form, is in part a symptom of deprivation with respect to the power process.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Without hate... [Re: BleaK]
    #2603603 - 04/26/04 04:45 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Three things I'd like to comment on your post (which otherwise was a good read):

1) It's fairly Americocentric

Quote:

Thus it is not surprising that modern society is full of surrogate activities. These include scientific work, athletic achievement, humanitarian work, artistic and literary creation, climbing the corporate ladder, acquisition of money and material goods far beyond the point at which they cease to give any additional physical satisfaction, and social activism when it addresses issues that are not important for the activist personally, as in the case of white activists who work for the rights of nonwhite minorities.



2) Scientific work, athletic achievement, artistic and literary creation, and climbing the corporate ladder are all ways to satisfy biological needs, if they're your profession. If they're not, they need not be surrogate activities. In my case, I wouldn't feel whole as a person - even if I had to do more to fulfill my biological needs - if I didn't express myself.
As for social activism... if you're willing to see humanity as "we" instead of a collection of "me's", you can also see why you would feel deprived if you didn't do anything about the current situation. Writing essays is hardly the way to improve the world if you don't link it to field work.

Quote:

Leftism, at least in its recent (mid-to-late -20th century) form, is in part a symptom of deprivation with respect to the power process.



3) If I understand correctly, that would mean that every socialist and communist failed to achieve a feeling of personal power. Not a good argument, not true even. A different paradigm != deprivation. The essay shown here is fairly leftist, so that means the author is deprived too?
That's the problem with people who criticise Western society from within: it's difficult to think beyond programming, beyond cultural heritage, even beyond national borders, as the case may be.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Without hate... [Re: Droz]
    #2603607 - 04/26/04 04:48 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I feel that hate is a strong word.

In my opinion hatred is something that you cannot get positives from.

Those things you mentioned, it sounds like they are beinging out love and positives in you, so do you really "hate" them?


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Without hate... [Re: Droz]
    #2603637 - 04/26/04 05:06 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

hey BleaK, That's Kaczynski. He's got some good ideas, but he's really hit and miss. When he's on he's on and when he's off he's totally flailing. He totally outright states that racism, sexism, and homophobia are non-essential to attack and that technology is the only thing in our society we really need to destroy. Hmm... he's got *some* analysis, but he's lacking.

Anyways, for the sake of staying on topic has it ever occured to you, Droz, that you've become pacified by your misery and false sense of contentedness? That you really aren't happy at all and that by sitting and stagnifying in this lifestyle that so clearly doesn't satisfy your needs for challenge and growth is likely to bore you to your grave? The way you describe your life is the classic North American problem- Privileged middle class existance cannot and will not provide a person with any substance, any creative outlet or any challenge.I recommend this: Invest in a decent hiking backpack and a warm, lightwieght sleeping bag. Put on several layers and pack a change of clothes. Also pack a couple days worth of food, a few first aid supplies, a journal, an intriguing novel, a flashlight and a knife. Put $10 in your pocket and head to the highway. Stick out your thumb and go where ever chance offers to take you.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Without hate... [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2603662 - 04/26/04 05:16 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

just like to point out ive read only that one article by Kaczynski. so i dunno what any of his other ideas are.

stoked on ur idea tho niamhnyx


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Without hate... [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2603777 - 04/26/04 07:41 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

He totally outright states that racism, sexism, and homophobia are non-essential to attack



That's more than a bit off, IMO.

Quote:

The way you describe your life is the classic North American problem- Privileged middle class existance cannot and will not provide a person with any substance, any creative outlet or any challenge.



I think you could generalise that to the whole of the Western way of life. Lower class, middle class, upper class, we all get bored after a while, filling up the abyss with paraphernalia and decadence.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: Without hate... [Re: Droz]
    #2603870 - 04/26/04 08:35 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Let me tell you a personal story that may help you.
Years ago I was pretty much in your state of mind (which is pretty pathetic, one day you will agree with me)
For some lucky star, my wife that is a travel agent won a trip to Granada all paid (money was very tight back then)
I sign every day for scuba diving trips, in front of the boat was the diving master, the place so beautiful, was like paradise, every day on are way back from the dive I will observe the dive master, he was always looking into the horizon like socking it all in, I use to think wow what a grate life this guy has, lives in beautiful place, does what he loves he is so lucky.
On the last day I was next to him coming back from the dive, and for the first time I spoke to him, and said "you know you are so lucky to be living like this" the guy almost annoyed because I was disrupting his silent contemplation turned to me and said "Is not luck, I made it this way" and turned back to the sea.
I can not describe how penetrating those words were in my soul.
Well I am making it to, I stop feeling sorry for my self, and live they way I want and have a lot of freedom and day by day world has less hold on me, I turned to love more and more and more good things happens to me.
You see brother, the world only reacts to your internal state. (here is your free will)
Peace.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Without hate... [Re: Droz]
    #2603971 - 04/26/04 09:24 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

examine the meaning of the sanskrit/pali word "dukkha" --- sound familiar?


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Without hate... [Re: Droz]
    #2603974 - 04/26/04 09:27 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

i mean, the suffering caused by "attachment" is not just from "i want this & can't have it" but also "i have this and don't want it"

check out "the 4 noble truths of the buddha", mmmmkay?


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Without hate... [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2604023 - 04/26/04 09:52 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
The way you describe your life is the classic North American problem- Privileged middle class existance cannot and will not provide a person with any substance, any creative outlet or any challenge.




Why can't and won't it? Substance is in the eye of the beholder.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Peace. :mushroom2:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Without hate... [Re: LOBO]
    #2604990 - 04/26/04 04:14 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LOBO said:
Let me tell you a personal story that may help you.
Years ago I was pretty much in your state of mind (which is pretty pathetic, one day you will agree with me)

- i apreciate this remark..........

For some lucky star, my wife that is a travel agent won a trip to Granada all paid (money was very tight back then)
I sign every day for scuba diving trips, in front of the boat was the diving master, the place so beautiful, was like paradise, every day on are way back from the dive I will observe the dive master, he was always looking into the horizon like socking it all in, I use to think wow what a grate life this guy has, lives in beautiful place, does what he loves he is so lucky.
On the last day I was next to him coming back from the dive, and for the first time I spoke to him, and said "you know you are so lucky to be living like this" the guy almost annoyed because I was disrupting his silent contemplation turned to me and said "Is not luck, I made it this way" and turned back to the sea.
I can not describe how penetrating those words were in my soul.
Well I am making it to, I stop feeling sorry for my self, and live they way I want and have a lot of freedom and day by day world has less hold on me, I turned to love more and more and more good things happens to me.
You see brother, the world only reacts to your internal state. (here is your free will)
Peace.




while i do understand what u are saying. my quarrles are not only about myself.
if i thought i was the only unsatisfyed person in the world..... i would shut my mouth. i think its a far greater problem.
and furthermore. at some point if we continue in our industrial ways, i dont think there will be a place as beautifull as the one u described.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Without hate... [Re: BleaK]
    #2605682 - 04/27/04 10:22 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

while I do understand what u are saying. My quarrels are not only about myself.




You may want to justify it that way, but the quarrels are always about our selves, look the world is crazy it always has been, and yes the world could go boom any moment, but be logical, what?s the point of feeling negative about circumstances that you have no control over it.
If any thing, feeling bad adds to the current problem.
There is also so many beautiful things in this world, why don?t focus on those?
You see if you make ?your world better? it also helps hole world, there will be one less negative factor around.
And any way if we are to be witness to the end of the world, so be it, I am going down with a smile and make the most of my remaining life.
Your choice brother.
Peace.


--------------------


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Without hate... [Re: LOBO]
    #2607223 - 04/27/04 05:57 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

LOBO said:
Quote:

while I do understand what u are saying. My quarrels are not only about myself.




You may want to justify it that way, but the quarrels are always about our selves, look the world is crazy it always has been, and yes the world could go boom any moment, but be logical, what?s the point of feeling negative about circumstances that you have no control over it.
If any thing, feeling bad adds to the current problem.
There is also so many beautiful things in this world, why don?t focus on those?
You see if you make ?your world better? it also helps hole world, there will be one less negative factor around.
And any way if we are to be witness to the end of the world, so be it, I am going down with a smile and make the most of my remaining life.
Your choice brother.
Peace.




quarrels are not always about you. i realize that i share a connection with everything else on this planet. and when someone else is angry for example. some of that rubbs off on me, if i am in their prescense. i understand pain enough to not wish it on anyone,. and i should hope they wish the same.

i do think i have some degree of controll. and my negativity is a tool im using.
energy, fuel for the fire.
i would rather spend time focusing on the negative, rather than ignoring it, and letting it grow.
and further, im going to jam out with friends in the next 10 mins. theres my beauty.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: Without hate... [Re: Droz]
    #2607542 - 04/27/04 07:14 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I feel ya droz!!!  Personally I'd rather jus go to a forest and just live the best I can..but you know how that goes :wink:.  people own land now hehe

try not to get too desensitized by this society, and as long as you don't have greedy intent with money, it's not that bad. 

what you described is just plainly you aren't accepting the world around you and yourself.  Listen to yourself!!  the fact that you pace back and forth in your rom clearly shows that you have A LOT of work in you to do.  after all, you do have this energy. 

"I hate when my girlfriend does strange things to piss me off."

is it your girlfriend...or is it because you just didn't agree or didn't understand?  use this to see what's wrong with yourself so the next time something off the wall happens...you don't get as upset. better yourself!! it's life giving you and opportunity to reflect on your own feelings and this will allow you not to get as negative with the external world.

"I hate those people that are racists"

they have their reasons...most of them at least.  why do you hate or dislike them?  they are people jsut like you and me. they have a different vie wfor sure, and I'm not syaing go up to them and try to change their minds, but try not to let their actions bother you, because most of the time it's only you that can bother you. be responsible for your feelings.

"Maybe i lack something that would be enjoyable in my life"

you can enjoy life right now as soon as you accept it and yourself on many levels.  don't depend on the external world for happiness because most of the time you're going to get disapointed real quick. 

"I play a lot of video games as my main hobby, sitting in front of a computer most of the time can get pretty boring. Hate the times i get so bored that i start pacing around my own house. "

ask yourself anytime you get bored, "what can I do right now that would make me feel happy?  what would entertain me?"  thinking about what you can do instead of focusing on the fact you are bored.  most of the time boredom is a result of you not accepting the world around you and yourself. 

"I'd rather be building a house near a river and spending my time adventuring around it. One day i'll get there but hate the time in between."

sounds like you got yourself a plan right there friend!  :thumbup:

"Does anyone have a current situation that they are content with, but seem to sort of hate it? I'd like to hear about it."

yeah, I used to get bored all the time, especially sitting in front of the comp and the world started to become mundane to me. then my mom came in the room loud as ever, smiling, laughing and carrying on..I couldn't help but join her.  then it dawned on me, in this physical space, can be experienced in any way you want it to?

to me I was in a boring world, and then my mom coems in all laughing, and I realized, this physical space and be experienced in any way I want it to. obviously cause she was in my room happy as hell, and I wasn't.  so it's not the external world at all, it's just my head.

just keeping loking at yourself and ask yourself questions.  engage your rational mind and ego is ways to benefit yourself!! 

you don't like something?  unless it's threating your health, you should look at why it bothers you, strike that, why you make it that way.  be responsible for your feelings, and slowly you can change them!  then when you gf does that off the wall shit most gf's do! :lol:  you can sit back and actually laugh, cause that's just life testing you out to ee if you're really paying attention!


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: Without hate... [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2607592 - 04/27/04 07:25 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

"He's got some good ideas, but he's really hit and miss. When he's on he's on and when he's off he's totally flailing."

same thing with all of us....in that aspect we are no different from everyone else. hehe no one has all the answers

"Droz, that you've become pacified by your misery and false sense of contentedness? That you really aren't happy at all and that by sitting and stagnifying in this lifestyle that so clearly doesn't satisfy your needs for challenge and growth is likely to bore you to your grave?"

:thumbup:  the way I see it though, it's not the external reality itself doesn't satisfy, but it's the fact that the way we think about and how we go about it makes it so we depend on it for happiness. 

"North American problem- Privileged middle class existance cannot and will not provide a person with any substance, any creative outlet or any challenge."

there really isn't a middle class.  middle class is for the most part and illusion.  there are the have's and the have-nots, and realize it's not how much stuff you have that determiens your class, nor your income (unless you are thinking on a census level), it's the fact that you have a bed to sleep in with a roof and food, with a computer, and a place to "put shit". 

it isn't a north america problem...it's a society that doesn't care problem.  as I know many of you will reject the idea of gang warfare being a major thing, well..it is. 

people want chaos...it's already here.  you don't htink so...hop over to my neck of the woods and try to feel safe when peole run into other's houses and light up the place. ever think niam you are middle class as well?  where you are living right now?  compared with the rest of the world?  you actually get to have a job!!!

doesn't provide challege?  nope...it provides a lot more.  no challenge??  ask the tons of people involved in gang warfare right now. if that's not a challenge then I don't know what is.  and if you try to say that  did it ever occur to most of us that WE are the priveledged ones?  hell we have computers!!!!! that says a lot. 


"Invest in a decent hiking backpack and a warm, lightwieght sleeping bag. Put on several layers and pack a change of clothes. Also pack a couple days worth of food, a few first aid supplies, a journal, an intriguing novel, a flashlight and a knife. Put $10 in your pocket and head to the highway. Stick out your thumb and go where ever chance offers to take you. "

that may work for you but not for everyone.  we are all different here.  you know that part you were talking about ideas being a bit off? :wink:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: Without hate... [Re: Droz]
    #2608104 - 04/27/04 09:02 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Yo Droz!

They want nothing more than to attach a chain to your leg and drag you down into the depths of mediocrity with whatever they can find as weight: TV, jobs, school, wives, children.. you know, civilization.

At our core humans are this: frightened, co-dependant, and depressed. We have a complete lack of confidence and will-power. We fill our day to avoid making the logical conclusion that there is no purpose to anything and our lives are ultimately meaningless. I know this first hand. I plumbed the depths of inactivity, took unproductivity to new heights, and went farther with laziness than ANYBODY I've EVER met.

I could be farther along if I didn't spend so much time doing this, but I can't regret it. If I hadn't retreated into my core and let my unstimulated and uninspired mind self-mutilate the wrists of my creativity, I would never have glimpsed the abysmal truth of our existence.

Like a half-conscious animal-protein and steroid fed cow floating through the active slaughter-house of society, I woke up and before I realized it was all just a dream, I began tearing the IVs out and gnawing through the leather clasps of my straight jacket. A crowd of overweight nurses screaming gave chase. The elevator door closed and for a few gentle moments I leaned against the shiny metal wall and stared into the fluorescent lights. I was like a human fetus suspended in formeldahyde.

What happened next was a blur. Somehow I ended up realizing I was the master of my own destiny, and I took control. If you don't DO IT now you never will. All great achievements come at a cost to what we in the west know as "comfort." Life's too easy. Weed makes it a little harder, but.. you know.. I suggest following Niam's plan. Even if you just make it to the next town and back, you'll be good.

Everybody's gotta understand that they can do whatever the fuck they want with their lives and can achieve almost anything they can concieve of. It's true, low-paying (or high-paying) jobs and nice girls are tempting things to throw away your life for, but man.. whaddya want, mediocrity? Mediocrity MEDIOCRITY MEDIOCRITY???????

FUCK MEDIOCRITY!

Making a bed of dirty needles and used toilet paper held together with a mass of spent white blood cells, I lay down to sleep my third night in the catacombs. I wasn't going crazy as old man Mcmurty had warned, but I couldn't be sure the lightless tunnels weren't making me go blind. I passed my hand in front of my face, seeing nothing, again. As I drifted off to sleep with my cracked and bleeding skull resting on the lifeless corpse of a sewer rat, I mused that perhaps perpetual blindness wouldn't be so bad. It couldn't be worse than living in the catacombs. Before I fell asleep, I gave one last yawn accompanied by a rigorous stretch. My hair would be lifted by the wind and I'd feel the sun on my face again soon.

FUCKING DO IT FUCKING DO IT FUCKING DO IT

or you'll be just like evrybdy else!!


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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Without hate... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2671433 - 05/13/04 12:44 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Fuck yeah Mixo!! Thanks for the inspiring post.

Like he said, just fucking do it. Don't take the path of least resistance, struggle for your life, push push push for real existance, demand and take your freedom (and at the same time, in solidarity, demand and forcefully help take freedom for everyone else...)


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Without hate... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2672193 - 05/13/04 04:33 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

its a little late but i applaud ur post as well.

im working on my life.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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