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Re: what is thought [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26030134 -

Thought is the material of thinking.

Thought is a second layer of experience thrown over the raw sense experience. It is generated by the primary sense experience, memory, and an abstraction algorithm.

It turns the raw sense data into objects. It creates a sense of knowing what things are, what life is, what is happening.



Some obversations related to this:

1. Most people appear to believe that what they are is just the thinker of thought, but this is actually just a thought.

2. Most people appear to be slaves to their thoughts, because they think they are the thinker of thought.

3. Thought and emotion are entangled in feedback loops. When these loops are taken as real and meaningful, we suffer and act stupidly.

4. Underneath the level of thought is a Devine beauty that shines through everything.

5. Underneath the level of thought is a deep, vast and profound silence, stillness, and spaciousness that permeates all sense domains. When someone switches from identifying as the ‘thinker’ to identifying with that space, their relationship with thought and emotion changes.

Edited by Freedom (06/03/19 09:33 AM)

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Re: what is thought [Re: Duncan Rowhl] * 1
    #26030171 -

Duncan Rowhl said:
It's awareness and I don't believe there's anything other than awareness.

Nothing can be destroyed.

Everything that is, is.


Form is emptiness
And
Form is form
And
Emptiness is form
And
Emptiness is emptiness

All four of these phrases splits the world
However the split and the unsplit are not different

Because non duality is duality, there are things and thoughts
Because duality is non duality, there are no things or thoughts

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Re: what is thought [Re: yeah] * 3
    #26030181 -

yeah said:
thought is an obstacle in the way of enlightenment

your mind will always interrupt your spirit and it must be muted



Why do you say this?

My experience is that it is only attachment and identity that causes thoughts to be problematic. I also find that when I identify as a self, thought gets ramped up, and when I identify as not self thought naturally dies down.

In this way I’d say the opposite, enlightenment is an obstacle to (delusory) thought.

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Re: what is thought [Re: Freedom] * 1
    #26031416 -

Thought is a type of relative data device..


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: what is thought [Re: yeah]
    #26035652 -

yeah said:
thought is an obstacle in the way of enlightenment

your mind will always interrupt your spirit and it must be muted


Most experienced practitioners ive personally dealt with as well as many of the texts i read claim thought is not inherently an issue, instead the way we interact with it is what springs suffering

What is thought? tough question. How should we analyze it, with thought? With non conceptual awareness?


--------------------

All is the smell of burnt almonds

And I am a mad barking dog

So please dont take me seriously

Edited by Mental Slavery (06/06/19 03:21 AM)

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Re: what is thought [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26035656 -

Thought is whatever you think it is.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: what is thought [Re: Freedom]
    #26036144 -

Freedom said:
Thought is the material of thinking.

Thought is a second layer of experience thrown over the raw sense experience. It is generated by the primary sense experience, memory, and an abstraction algorithm. ...



I imagine that sense (which is primary as you say), is not different than thought, and thought is not different than sense - except that sense transduces events of the world into thought energy, while thought is already thought energy.

Quote:
...It turns the raw sense data into objects.


I would call that type of thought - perception, wherein association occurs between thought energy and general forms of similar thought energies.

Quote:
It creates a sense of knowing what things are, what life is, what is happening.
...


which is another way of saying that thought and sense are one thing.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: what is thought [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26037007 -

is anybody here aware of anyone discussing the general subject of using thought to analyze thought and how this could be in a sense ludicrous or at least fairly limited, if so, can someone point me to those peoples or papers? thanks


--------------------

All is the smell of burnt almonds

And I am a mad barking dog

So please dont take me seriously

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Re: what is thought [Re: Mental Slavery]
    #26037016 -

I don't think that would be conclusive....:thumbup:

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Re: what is thought [Re: Duncan Rowhl] * 1
    #26037136 -

With meditation one can become adept at watching thoughts passively.

I have found that beyond the passivness of third party you can begin to trap thought.
To go into the creating...and stay there.

When doing this your awareness becomes muted in some sense and you can become the action of thought itself...almost like a half way point.
I have got there twice.

But now as I think about those times they are lost.

Thought is whatever you think you think it is.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: what is thought [Re: pineninja]
    #26037182 -

Quote:
When doing this your awareness becomes muted in some sense and you can become the action of thought itself...almost like a half way point.


the thoughts that are not thoughts. in certain terms [Spinozan] one can put it as 'modes of attribution'. the sort of demarcations of emotion or image-feeling- to "trap thought", that is- that "image-feeling"....these are "thoughts that are not thoughts".

in Spinozan terms, the "thoughts" or "modes of attributes" or ideas of God.

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Re: what is thought [Re: akira_akuma]
    #26037360 -

thought and thinking are words
that may have varying definitions
ie. they are artificial categories

sometimes to think means the same as: 'to believe'
other times it could mean: 'to contemplate'
other times it means : 'to calculate' as in math

sometimes what a person thinks and says, is actually a rationalization
our thoughts are often influenced by our mood
so they are not actually separate from emotion
which is not separate from blood sugar levels
which depends on food eaten
and metabolism

also  much of what passes for thought is also just
association and habit or belief, regurgitated

then there is unconscious thought, as in dreams,
as opposed to conscious thought

then there is the topic of whether,
a thought is identified with,
and whether one feels a thought or idea, is necessary to defend

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Re: what is thought [Re: pineninja]
    #26037549 -

pineninja said:
With meditation one can become adept at watching thoughts passively.

I have found that beyond the passivness of third party you can begin to trap thought.
To go into the creating...and stay there.

When doing this your awareness becomes muted in some sense and you can become the action of thought itself...almost like a half way point.
I have got there twice.

But now as I think about those times they are lost.

Thought is whatever you think you think it is.


:thumbup:

As someone myself who's attained it for months in the past (with no ebbs as such) from use of mushrooms, I know it's well within reach to capture it and use it effectively beyond meditation and grasp it.

The initial change may be facilitated by meditation / mushrooms, but it's entirely possible to bring it out, in an effective measure, out of those experiences.

The only difference then is the ego banging at the door, in a bid to tarnish the state and we consequently find ourselves not observing but being invested and immersed in the thoughts once more.

No matter how different things may seem now with that state a thing of the past, it's there under the false armour of everyone.

I covered it here:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25948658#25948658

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Re: what is thought [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26037717 -

If sense and thought are not different, yet sense is primary, than thought is converting physical energy into another form, like nervous signals.

If we were to take your imaginings as is, that is. IMO.

Exactly what that form is, and if that sense can be directed in a way that originates or is influenced by internal ongoings is another question.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: what is thought [Re: sudly] * 1
    #26037760 -

sudly said:
If sense and thought are not different, yet sense is primary, than thought is converting physical energy into another form, like nervous signals.

If we were to take your imaginings as is, that is. IMO.

Exactly what that form is, and if that sense can be directed in a way that originates or is influenced by internal ongoings is another question.


changing 'than' to 'then' helps me through the first sentence.

the clause -"thought is converting physical energy into another form, like nervous signals"- considers the transduction from sensation or from memory but introduces 'thought' as the actor in the conversion of physical energies which is actually the domain of the brain not the transient thought object or event.

so I would rewrite your first sentence as:
If sense and thought are not different, yet sense is primary, then the nervous system which transduces light and sound (etc.) to thought is converting physical energy into another form, using nervous signals, and converting the traces of memory to thought as well.

thought is sustained in the brain and thought leaves memory traces in the brain. Neural circuitry gets signals into the brain which houses thought and memory.

there still are some questions that need firmer language and experimental procedures, but we have plenty of evidence (eeg's etc.) showing that localized wave conduction in the cerebral cortex accompanies thought events/forms. This is not the same as classic nerve conduction, it is more like the activity of a membrane (the cerebral cortex) which can be conditioned using interference of waves, and that when similar triggering conditions prevail, it generates and propagates wave energy to reactivate the tissue that initially created the interference pattern (how associative memory works).


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: what is thought [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #26038009 -

seems to me:

what we experience as reality, is not reality
it is the user interface the organism uses to
navigate "reality" or its biological niche well enough
to survive long enough to reproduce before dying

we do not see electrons
we do not see that matter is 90% space
we do not see that matter = energy
all our senses are very crude & limited
and the brain creates a workable simulation from their input
that we take to be reality
or as the saying goes
"seeing is believing"
but it anit really 'so'
everything we think we see outside in the world
is a construct in the brain
where there is no light

conscious thought is an aspect of that simulation.
"the self" is an aspect of that simulation largely
created by thought, & by identifying with those thoughts
and linking them into a story, about a
supposedly unified & supposedly stable, entity,
in other words 'the self' is an objectification.
A process that actually has a contingent & composite nature, ('the self' or 'selving')
is taken to be much more solid than it is.

Like turbulence in a stream, or the red spot on Jupiter,
it does persist, but it is not solid. It does not stop the flow of the stream,
but in that area, the flow is restricted.

So a very large percentage of thought is deceptive,
but it is the identification process that empowers it.

We take many of our thoughts
to be 'ours', and a product of our independent will, and like to
cherish, protect, & defend them; or in other words we
identify with them.

If they were taken to be only like an overheard conversation,
their impact would be much less.

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Re: what is thought [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #26038125 -

Sometimes we have to listen to thoughts that urge us to get out of danger, eat, or poop.

I think we are all cartoons.

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Re: what is thought [Re: remake]
    #26038196 -

Trending Now:

Super Realist Enlightened Cartoon

Get yours at the latest Jordan Peterson Store.

Or get the Eclictic Atheist at Sam Harris R Us.

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Re: what is thought [Re: remake] * 1
    #26038282 -

FranniePilgrim said:
Sometimes we have to listen to thoughts that urge us to get out of danger, eat, or poop.

I think we are all cartoons.



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Re: what is thought [Re: pacmanbreed]
    #26066388 -

You ever listen to Sam Harris? You don't control your thoughts, you don't think the next thought as much as it just comes into your head. He says it way better in his talk about free will. Pretty trippy

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