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Anonymous

Time vs Eternity
    #2588872 - 04/21/04 11:42 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

If time exists, then it is a measurable force that refutes the idea of eternity. Nothing can be measured if it is immeasurable. Time is just a measure of a portion of what we call eternity.

If something is neverending then how do we measure it? how do you know for sure an hour is an hour?

How do you know that your perception of time is the same as another'? How is it that a dream can seem to last hours but in this conscious reality only consist of a few seconds?

Are we all connected somehow so that our perceptions of time are the same in our awaken life?


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Anonymous

Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: ]
    #2589084 - 04/22/04 12:21 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

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Offlinedaba
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Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: ]
    #2589173 - 04/22/04 12:39 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Everything has already happened. Everything is in this moment.

If life just a recording of a recording of a recording? :crazy:


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Anonymous

Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: daba]
    #2589183 - 04/22/04 12:42 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"One cannot use the language of the butterfly to communicate with caterpillars."

Nice quote daba.


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Offlinemanna_man
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Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: ]
    #2589264 - 04/22/04 01:01 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

There is an essay that deals with this very subject called "Our Allotted Lifetimes" by Stephen Jay Gould. Very interesting read. I suggest you all look into it.


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InvisibleKackleDude
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Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: ]
    #2589275 - 04/22/04 01:03 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Time is the moving image of eternity
-Plato


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: ]
    #2589314 - 04/22/04 01:13 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Nothing can be measured if it is immeasurable

This is a new dimension in non-informational redundancy.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinemanna_man
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Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: ]
    #2589423 - 04/22/04 01:50 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"how do you know for sure an hour is an hour?"

I know this because the clock on my oven tells me so... Time, as measured in units, is the result of human kind translating TIME into terms that can be understood by other humans, merely for the purpose of convenience. It is the result of us trying to make sense of it.

Time as we know it applies only to those that can tell it. To us, an hour seems like an hour simply because only we are aware of what an hour is, or what it feels like, and because we can refer to past experiences with hours and compare it with the present one. Time as we know it exists in both the subjective and the objective sense, whereas when referring to a baby or animal, it is only objective.

There is a quote by Einstein that goes something like: ""When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours that's relativity."

There should be an emphasis on the words seems like. Time in the absolute sense cannot be changed with a mere difference of perception. The same holds true for all of reality.

Now here's something to think about: ......

Yea, you're right that if there is such thing as eternity, then time wouldn't even exist. Hell, would anything even exist if there was eternity? Because if time was infinite, then it would take an infinity to arrive at this point, which is impossible. No big bang. Nothing!

This is all perfectly true, assuming that time is linear!!! Now try to think of time as something other than linear. To help you with this, picture how our earth was once viewed by the earlier astronomers: completely flat. You go far enough and you'll walk right off it. But then we later discovered that our earth was in fact a sphere. The properties of a spherical earth allow one, if one so desired, to walk in a straight(ish) line across the globe and arrive right back where you started from. In fact, you could hypothetically walk in a straight line for all eternity.

But how then do we apply this to something as abstract as time?Sure, it's very difficult for us to conceive of time as having the same properties as a sphere, but just because it is inconceivable does not render it impossible. In fact, there are some very convincing scientific theories that now point to the possibillity of a spherical universe.


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Offlinemanna_man
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Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: ]
    #2589428 - 04/22/04 01:54 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

oops...nothing to see here.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: manna_man]
    #2589480 - 04/22/04 02:11 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes...

WTF is anyone doing sitting on a hot stove and why would they not move immediately?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinemanna_man
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Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: Swami]
    #2589518 - 04/22/04 02:21 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Hey. it's einstein, ok?
I think he knows what he's doing...


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: ]
    #2589753 - 04/22/04 04:01 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Time is the 4th dimension of our universe. It is similar to the three spatial dimensions, but different in that we do not seem to have any control over our movement through it. Time "began" with the creation of the universe, and conceivably will not end unless/until the three spatial dimensions collapse (we live in spacetime - time is linked to space). The future already exits, in a sense. Our immediate consciousness is just stuck at a specific point along the temporal dimension, moving forward.

"Time is what clocks measure", I can't remember where I heard that though :smirk:

Eternity would mean infinite time, I guess. I'm not sure how to apply that to our universe. I think that depends on the geometry of the temporal dimension: is it open or closed? Does it have an end?

I just had a thought: when we say the "universe is expanding" it is the spatial dimensions themselves which are expanding. We live in spacetime, is time expanding with space? Is that why we only move in one direction?

If the expansion were reversed, would we move the other way?  :wink:


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InvisibleMr_Gubjet


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Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: ]
    #2589784 - 04/22/04 04:17 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

In Space, time is different at every view point. Like a 3D scrub. Its a hard concept. But in Space, past, present and future is everywhere. Like moving like its alive. Moving everywhere in time. This is a hard concept. But try too bear with me.

Space is infinite, so at every view point the time is different everywhere and anywhere.

We were raised too think time everywhere is the same in Space.

But that is not true.

So time is just too measure cycles at certain view points in Space.

Time is just an illusion...


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InvisibleMr_Gubjet


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Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: Mr_Gubjet]
    #2589845 - 04/22/04 04:56 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Now can be anywhere in time, there-forth time is an illusion.


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InvisibleMr_Gubjet


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Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: Mr_Gubjet]
    #2589976 - 04/22/04 07:51 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Also there is only one dimension.


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Offlinefaelr
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Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: ]
    #2591797 - 04/22/04 06:16 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dustin said:
If time exists, then it is a measurable force that refutes the idea of eternity. Nothing can be measured if it is immeasurable. Time is just a measure of a portion of what we call eternity.

If something is neverending then how do we measure it? how do you know for sure an hour is an hour?

How do you know that your perception of time is the same as another'? How is it that a dream can seem to last hours but in this conscious reality only consist of a few seconds?

Are we all connected somehow so that our perceptions of time are the same in our awaken life?



time is nothing more than an idea. i feel that the people that finalyzed the rules of time had another agenda to complete.....control.
sensable rules can be exploited.


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where i walk, i walk alone. when i fight, i fight alone. i am no one and i am nothing. yet all is that i am.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: faelr]
    #2591849 - 04/22/04 06:35 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

We are born, age and die, no matter what idea of time you, or anyone else, holds, nor what kind of semantic games anyone plays.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: ]
    #2593011 - 04/23/04 12:35 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Trendal:
"If the expansion were reversed, would we move the other way"

I think black holes are where the universe is reversing. Science says that the black holes are growing larger, so mabye at some point they will overtake the curreent state of the universe? That is talking billions of 'years' but is alot of speculation because we do not really know a whole lot about black holes...

Does anyone know where the nearest black hole to the milky way galaxy is?

Mr Gubjet:
"Also there is only one dimension"

I can not see how this is so unless you mean with multiple levels within the one dimension??? Within all life there is system, along with the chaos that drives time foreward. Even the human mind state can be broken down into 7 main areas that control most functions of exitence for the percieved reality.., so surley on the global scale there are different dimensions... because we mimik the universe. i think


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OfflineToad_Stool
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Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2593103 - 04/23/04 12:58 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i think that the nearest black hole is at the center of the milkyway... last show i watched bases all galaxies on having a center which all the stars and solar systems follow an elliptical path around... At the center of these galaxies black holes are being found.. not sure exactly how far the center of the milkyway is but i know we are towards the side


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Time vs Eternity [Re: Toad_Stool]
    #2593353 - 04/23/04 02:09 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

don't worry about trying to figure out how time works unless you can already manipulate it. you're not going to be able to manipulate it by pondering how it works.


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