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Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers?
    #25797913 -

Hello all,

I'm confident of my understanding with the PF Tek, and could do the PF Tek consistently with satisfactory results. My case is a little unique, being I didn't use a SGFC with my projects. Rather, I built a hygrometer-controlled humidity chamber, using filtered + fine mist. I use irrigation tubing to route the humidity from the humidifier within 2 separate clear tubs (about.2 x 3 feet; I forget the volume).

About 4 inches from the bottom of each tub is a horizontal strip of 1/4" holes, drilled 2" apart, all around each tub. I connected a hygrometer probe within the system, and its controller keeps the RH equal to or greater than 95%. I manually mist and fan at least twice a day, but I use my eyes more than a dedicated schedule. Featuring 6500K lights on a 12/12 rotation, as well as a HEPA purifier. Lysol, alcohol, etc. I'm decently prepared.

In starting with the basics, I want to use rye berries in the pursuit of a G2G rotation. I trust RR's videos on grain preparation and the like, but this is where I don't know what to do next:

- I understand growing bulk amounts relies on many factors, what should be considered when my priority is harvest weight? Genetics, substrate, environment?

- Which additives are best for G2G bulk cultivation? How are they incorporated?

- Instead of making a monotub for a bulk spawn, could I line a shallow container with black plastic (or whatever to prevent side-pinning) and sit that in my HC?

- What bulk sub would be best for rye berries? Casing layer recipe?

Thank you all so very much!


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“We live in the condensation of our imagination.” ― Terence McKenna

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Re: Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers? [Re: MycSplice44]
    #25797955 -

Use unmodified tubs and spawn to hydrated coir. That's it.


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Never give up, never surrender.

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Re: Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers? [Re: Failboat]
    #25798222 -

Okay; aware of any trusted tub-tek suggestion(s)? Thank you for your feedback. Just trying to do things right the first time. Willing to listen to anybody here. I've only been at this since October 2018.


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“We live in the condensation of our imagination.” ― Terence McKenna

Edited by MycSplice44 (02/07/19 09:24 PM)

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Re: Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers? [Re: MycSplice44]
    #25798326 -

Here is a good place to start. Are you planing on doing agar work?
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=25274461&page=0&vc=1#25274461
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22337800


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How I make and preserve tea


Consuming consumes a man That was never a purpose of life To only crave for material joys Is believing the lie - Mellow Mood

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Re: Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers? [Re: MycSplice44] * 1
    #25798353 -

MycSplice44 said:
In rain preparation and the like, but this is where I don't know wh
- I understand growing bulk amounts relies on many factors, what should be considered when my priority is harvest weight? Genetics, substrate, environment?

- Which additives are best for G2G bulk cultivation? How are they incorporated?

- Instead of making a monotub for a bulk spawn, could I line a shallow container with black plastic (or whatever to prevent side-pinning) and sit that in my HC?

- What bulk sub would be best for rye berries? Casing layer recipe?

Thank you all so very much!


Environment is most important. If you can’t keep it stable it’ll play havoc with your tubs moisture level and that will certainly effect your yield. Keep it steady keep it moist, just like the wife :wink:

Ive tried additives in my subs from gypsum to hpoo to straw & verm and I’ve gone back to plain ol coco. There’s no point trying to add these ingredients that will make a 1% difference when you can’t maintain a stable tub with the basics 99% of the time. I recommend for first few bulk keep it simple it’s all about dialing in your tubs environment.

Yes you could. No need for black liner, just Mix the sub properly and lay it level. If you keep surface conditions good side pinning is not a problem. This shouldn’t be hard in your HC.

Best is coco coir. Can get dried bricks from most garden centres or hydro stores. Amazon/google to. I personally don’t case and if you can keep an eye on your tubs moisture levels you shouldn’t need to with coco&rye.

I think you get the gist of what I’m trying to say...... surface moisture level.... PAY attention.

I recommend reading through everything on this Page

Good luck and keep us in the loop!

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Re: Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers? [Re: SFS96]
    #25798760 -

Indeed I plan on doing agar work after this grow; I'm gonna try to isolate a few caps and see if I can't get some isolates going soon thereafter. I really appreciate the links!!! Gonna dive into this as soon as I get my berries in the mail! Thanks!!!


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“We live in the condensation of our imagination.” ― Terence McKenna

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Re: Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers? [Re: Zoltanvinegar]
    #25798772 -

The surface moisture level was what I was personally most concerned with; I find that when I rolled my BRF cakes in verm (not a true casing, would never use for a tub), I had a nice contamination barrier, moisture reserve, and it helped promote greater pinning as well as a double-ended casing.

I have work 45 minutes from the house, and I work 10 hours a day, 4-6 days a week. Most amount of time I'm typically away from my tubs is 12 hours, and I found I could regulate the moisture just well enough with that added verm casing. I guess I'm looking for something that would promote pinning, as well as water retention, etc. Would RR's casing recipe with peat moss be satisfactory?

I may have no other choice; also why I attempted to create a semi-automatic humidity chamber, so I could be away from the house and the mushies still get constant levels of fine-mist RH & FAE currents established by the propulsion of the mist, the 1/4" vent holes drilled around, and by slightly cracking the lids on top. The only thing I can't maintain in my lab is heat; temps fluctuate between 69-77 degrees, but hasn't posed many issues. Just slowed growth in high 60s.

I've got a few bricks of coir, I have some pickling lime sitting around that I kinda wanna use. I believe it's for pH but I'm unaware of the relationship. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions; will definitely keep the thread updated along the way for anybody else learning G2G and bulk grows.

Bout to read a bunch of Bod's stuff, thanks again!


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“We live in the condensation of our imagination.” ― Terence McKenna

Edited by MycSplice44 (02/08/19 06:58 AM)

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Re: Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers? [Re: MycSplice44]
    #25798849 -

How much do your organic rye berries cost? Oats are cheap, abundant, and EZ AF. Come over to the oat side...


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Never give up, never surrender.

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Re: Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers? [Re: Failboat]
    #25799011 -

About $1.68 per pound of organic rye grains. I only wanted to use rye because of its psychedelic history with ergot and LSA and such.. I have a hunch about the nutrients from rye, but no proof. Oats seem easier and more efficient to use, obtain... perhaps after I run out of rye :grin:


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“We live in the condensation of our imagination.” ― Terence McKenna

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Re: Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers? [Re: MycSplice44]
    #25799018 -

There's nothing mystical here. They both work equally as well in that sense. You're paying 5 times as much for something functionally equal. 15 bucks for 50lb, do it next time. If you want to play with ergot alkaloids then I suggest you grow your organic rye.


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Never give up, never surrender.

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Re: Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers? [Re: Failboat]
    #25800323 -

Just the nature of the rye genetics is what compels me to use it I guess, I'm weird. Definitely gonna expand my grain varieties in the future; also thought rye grains were easier to shake and disperse during colonization. Oh well.


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“We live in the condensation of our imagination.” ― Terence McKenna

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Re: Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers? [Re: MycSplice44]
    #25800642 -

You are asking too many questions at once man :lol:
I also see that you are really over thinking everything before you have a firm understanding of the basics.


Side pins are caused by the favorable microclimate that forms between the substrate and walls. They are not caused by light, a black strip would do nothing. A good, thick enough liner that holds against the substrate as it shrinks away from the walls will eliminate that microclimate. But it is better to learn to maintain proper surface conditions that are more favorable than the sides/bottoms - rendering the need for a liner unnecessary.

If you want to work with grains you first have to learn proper sterile procedure in a still air box and agar work. It's a must. 


Just use tubs. A properly dialed in tub needs virtually no maintenance at all.
Reading over your set up for BRF cakes, it sounds over complicated and flawed from a misunderstanding of what mushrooms need. I would suggest you forget all about hygrometors and RH and HEPA purifiers.


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Amateur Mycologists United
AMU Q&A

Edited by mushpunx (02/09/19 03:42 AM)

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Re: Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers? [Re: mushpunx]
    #25800694 -

I appreciate the assistance; I've been an "over-thinker" my entire life, it seems. Helps me more than it hurts me, given I ask the right questions. Lol

Thank you for clarifying the micro-climate and side-pinning dilemma; definitely gonna dive a little deeper into surface moisture level & micro-climate research since I obviously need it.

I'm keen on agar techniques and practices, I just don't have a lot of space in my tiny apartment. To do any inoculations or sterile procedures, I usually have to wait until I have a day to myself here (amidst neighbors and family, etc).

I only use a HEPA purifier cause I keep my inhabitants in my bedroom closet where there's otherwise no ventilation. Was simply trying to maintain a cleaner environment.

You suggest I forget about RH and hygrometers; what's most important for you? Where am I misunderstood of what mushrooms need? Thank you very much.


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“We live in the condensation of our imagination.” ― Terence McKenna

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Re: Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers? [Re: MycSplice44]
    #25800762 -

I hear you on being short on space, last year I was living in a tiny studio apartment after moving from a house with 2 spare bedrooms and a finished basement :lol: . But you'll have to work it out. If you are living with other people who don't know what you are doing it's probably not a good idea to grow there though

Anyways. As far as RH goes- the only humidity that we need concern ourselves with is right at surface level, and a hygrometer can't measure that. Take a monotub for example, in a tub the substrate is large enough to provide it's own humidity (much like in nature). At the surface level there should be a constant layer of tiny water droplets. The constant evaporation of the tiny drops off the sub is a major pinning trigger. In a fruiting chamber we need passive FAE for this to happen.
But too much FAE can cause that surface to dry up and need misting. In a monotub we aim to find a balance between the max FAE we can allow before things start to get dry, so we only need the minimum maintenance.
In a monotub with holes for example, the passive FAE is happening all the time through those large holes. We stuff those holes with poly fill to restrict the FAE. If the surface droplets start to dry up, we restrict the FAE more by stuffing the poly fill tighter. If we start to see puddles, we allow more FAE in by loosening the poly. A perfect balanced ("dialed in") tub should need next to no misting.
There are other ways to restrict that FAE- in a tub without holes , we simply tighten or loosen the crack in the lid.

BRF cakes are too small to produce their own humidity in a big FC - they dry out too quick. The SGFC design doesn't allow you to adjust the amount of FAE but it is balanced to need minimum misting. It's probably the best design to keep lots of cakes in one big chamber.
If you were to say, keep the BRF cake in the jar with lid off, and place a ziplock bag over top, in that size FC it is able to produce it's on humidity and needs very little of anything.

Make any sense?

The humidity needs to fluctuate. If you pump in humidity and keep the RH high like 90%, you are actually inhibiting the tiny water droplets from evaporating off the substrate surface.

The only time a humidifier should be used in home cultivating is in small greenhouses.


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Amateur Mycologists United
AMU Q&A

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Re: Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers? [Re: mushpunx]
    #25801487 -

To be fair, the humidity fluctuates fairly often. The controller is on until the RH is at or above 95%, and remains off until 90% RH is measured. Small fluctuations.. about 5 mins on/off. I understand what you're saying, though. Perhaps a picture would help. I am leaning towards using tubs, more in the realm of "set it & forget it."

Leads me to want to try out Bod's S^3 shoe-boxes. He uses a bag to contain the humidity and barely mists them at all. Seems to work perfectly. Gonna get some agar supplies and see if I can't start making isolates after the first flushes. Got me wondering...

Are there any in-vitro grain/quart jar teks? About to do some research myself. This sounds exciting. Thank you for the help; is this a good link for surface moisture?


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“We live in the condensation of our imagination.” ― Terence McKenna

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Re: Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers? [Re: MycSplice44]
    #25801490 -

I didn't like me experience using bags, but I'm not writing them off. If you really want set and forget, something I adpre, then use unmodified tubs. Bod even has a tek for them :awesome:


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Never give up, never surrender.

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Re: Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers? [Re: Failboat]
    #25801543 -

You're the second to suggest unmod-tubs.. looks like this is the winner. I'll give it a go, for sure. Updates upon grain arrival!


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“We live in the condensation of our imagination.” ― Terence McKenna

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Re: Looking to begin a brand new bulk operation using organic rye berries. Pointers? [Re: Failboat]
    #25801564 -

MycSplice44 said:
You're the second to suggest unmod-tubs.. looks like this is the winner. I'll give it a go, for sure. Updates upon grain arrival!


Quirkmeister92 said:
Use unmodified tubs and spawn to hydrated coir. That's it.


I was first tho...:popcorn:


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Never give up, never surrender.

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