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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, 10cc Syringe, Agar, Herb Grinder, Laminar Flow Hood, Malt Extract, Paul Stamets, Petri Dish, Potato Dextrose, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite

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Offlinekbone
enthusiast
Registered: 03/30/99
Posts: 140
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Rye
    #10840 - 04/03/00 11:19 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Im gonna be doing the same pretty soon. did you presoak the rye before you sterlized?? i have never used it so im just going by what i heard. keep me posted because it's a way good idea :smile: :smile: :smile:


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Invisiblerebelmoon
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Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 204
Re: Rye
    #10842 - 04/04/00 01:35 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

i am using rye. ill never go back to those tedious 1/2 pint cakes with vermiculite layers and shit. rye is way better and much more simple if oyu know what you are doing. first off - you need a pressure cooker/canner. if you dont have one then forget about it.
i dont pre-soak the grain. it is very important to hatch all the endospores on the grain and this is one way to do it. i have found that cooking the grain is more productive. this hatches the endospores and gives you the perfect water content.
cook the grain for about 45 minutes at a low boil. stir every five minutes or so - especilaly near the end. when done pour the rye into a strainer and fluff it. get out are much excess water as you can and then dump it into jars. load the jars up with at least enough extra space so that you can shake them up late. this is between 1/2 to 3/4 full or so. i use pint or quart jars.
cook the grain at at least 15psi for at least 1hr. another pro of precooking the garin is that there is no standing water in the jars. if you use that mehtod, you cant cook the grain for very long or else the kernels will burst and make a mess. it is also more difficult to get the correct water ratio. but when you pre cook the grain you can pressure cook for over 2hrs and at higher pressures without bursting the kernels of grain.
after sterilizing in the pressure cooker, innoculate with mycelium or spores (preferably you would have a pure strain grown out on agar instead of spores). i have innoculated pint jars with liquid mycelium solution that have colonized in 8 days. ive heard even more impressive results than that.
cased rye grain is simpler than pf methods and produces larger quantities.
it makes other teks just seem silly.
-daniel.


--------------------
"habit is the ballast that chains the dog to its vomit" - s beckett


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Offlinevts1134
member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 159
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: Rye
    #10843 - 04/04/00 02:39 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Daniel, you are the shit dude. Ok enough explicitives. Thank you for the advice, I have never heard of this method before and I think that it will save me alot of heart ache. Do you use grain to grain transfers? Or all agar to grain transfers.


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Invisiblerebelmoon
enthusiast
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 204
Re: Rye
    #10844 - 04/04/00 02:58 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

aww shucks
i just go from agar to grain. i always have a stock of agar mycelium on hand so it seems the easiest for me. i want to look into liquid growth mediums next. in a liquid medium such as malt, the mycelium is able to grow three dimensionally instead of only two dimensionally on the agar. this makes for faster colonization.
generally what i do is take an agar plate (i actually use 1/2 pint jars or baby food jars cuz their easier to use than petris) and dump it into a coffee grinder, blender or food processor (my housemate has this little food processor that works perfectly). add a 1/2 cup or so of distileld water and about 5 teaspoons of h2o2 (the diluted 3% variety from the drug store). the mycelium should bubble and fizz. blend the mycelium using short 3 second bursts. do it maybe 3-5 times. suck the resulting innoculant into a syringe. i like to use 5-10ccs innoculant per jar. if oyu are doing ~10 jars one agar plate and 1/2 cup of water makes plenty innoculant. closo the jars and shake. fastest growth ive ever seen.
you can case the rye grain or use as spawn for straw, compost, etc. i would recommend you case the rye by itself the first couple times to get a hang of it. check put shroomgods straw tek for semi-bulk growing on straw. im really excited about the electric composter that was posted a few days ago. makes compost easy and manageable.
-daniel.


--------------------
"habit is the ballast that chains the dog to its vomit" - s beckett


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OfflineTriGuy
Skeptic

Registered: 08/28/99
Posts: 105
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
Re: Rye
    #10845 - 04/06/00 06:00 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Keep talking rebelmoon, I'm listening.

And I have a question. What is the color and smell of a healthy colonized rye jar? In other words, how can I tell that the jar is NOT contaminated.

Let me tell you where I'm at. I know that the healthy myce in rice/verm is pure white and sort of stringy looking. I have been fairly successful with PF and ShroomWiz
teks. I have a good pressure cooker, but still need work on my sterile transfers. I have never used agar and don't know how: it seems that it requires even MORE sterility that I have now. How in the world do you get and keep the food processor sterile? Your preboil/fluff method seems like it would solve the uneven moisture problem. Good idea. Ok, enough of that.

I'd hate to waste a big tray full of straw and go though that tek for nothing. The few pictures I've seen in the Gallery here of colonized rye jars are out of focus. I have 5 pint jars that are well colonized with something. It is mostly white, but if there is a faint mushroomy smell it is masked by the smell of the grain I think. That pleasant musky mushroom smell of success is very obvious with rice/verm. I'm going to break up and case these rye jars anyways, since I have nothing to lose.

So how do YOU know that you have good jars?

And a couple more little questions. What is agar, is it nutritious or is it just the part that makes it gel and you have to add malt for myce food? Is it something I shoudl be able to buy by walking into a store of some kind in Atlanta? Where do you get yours? Since most people including the "breeders" who use agar swear by it, it's obviously something I should learn to do.

Thanks alot.



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Invisiblerebelmoon
enthusiast
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 204
Re: Rye
    #10846 - 04/07/00 05:45 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

"What is agar, is it nutritious or is it just the part that makes it gel and you have to add malt for myce food?"

yes. malt extract or potato dextrose or something else. people have even had success with ground up dog food - fucking mad scientists.

"Is it something I shoudl be able to buy by walking into a store of some kind in Atlanta?"

i understand that health food stores and asian gorcery stores have it. also supply houses, fungi perfecti, mushroompeople, etc.

"Where do you get yours?"

i bought some a while back in a pre-mixed form from shroom god. if it wasnt for him i might have never made the leap into agar cultures. i havent exhausted my supply of shroomgods formula yet (mya + wheat flour). im interested in a cornmeal recipe that is less nutritious for preserving strains on though, in which case ill have to see.

"Since most people including the "breeders" who use agar swear by it, it's obviously something I should learn to do."

if you want a pure strain then yes. growing off of agar allows for better colonization speeds, larger yields and faster "start up" times when spawning.

check the agar teks in the find/grow section of the shroomery for more info or do a search for agar on the msg board. actually i have a cut and paste file of just about every useful bit of agar info ever posted on the shroomery. i also have it for the rye info and for straw. its a good habit if you are an obsesive bastard like myself. if you want i can email it to you. its like 10-15 pages of info on each subject.
ok what else -
the healthy smell of a rye jar is the smell of cooked rye grain. it is a lingering smell in my experience and overpowers the msuhroomy smell except for right after shaking the jar. if it smells sour or distinctly foul then its probably contaminated. if not then im sure the jar is fine (that is if there is no visible sign of contam and it still shows vigorous growth). when you are ready to spawn, smell the jar to make sure it doesnt have that sour bacteria smell. but it doesnt matter too much. i have cased an obviously contaminated jar (green mold) and it fruited very well. just try and pick out the actually visible mold. dont use a jar you even suspect to be contaminated as a spawn for straw or compost though. thats pretty risky since there is more time for the contam to spread and a greater potential loss.
-dnaiel.



--------------------
"habit is the ballast that chains the dog to its vomit" - s beckett


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Offlinevts1134
member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 159
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: Rye
    #10847 - 04/07/00 02:26 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

rebel moon could you mail that info out to me please, vts1134@hotmail.com also what alternitaves do I have when working with agar and no laminar flow hood?


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OfflineTriGuy
Skeptic

Registered: 08/28/99
Posts: 105
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
Re: Rye
    #10848 - 04/07/00 05:38 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Send to me too, please.

Thanks, I think you could also use the "turkey bags" to sterilize a LARGE amount of grain in the oven after pre-cooking.

I'm actually trying that now with one of those filter patch bags. As long as I'm super careful with a sterile inoculation with spores (inject through pinhole which is then immediatly taped up), then I can't see why it should not thrive. I can mix it all very easily by kneading it for a few seconds whenver I look at it.

Opps, I think I may have just wasted some straw by putting my unknown jars into it. We'll see.

Have a great weekend!



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Invisiblerebelmoon
enthusiast
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 204
Re: Rye
    #10849 - 04/07/00 09:25 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

ok ill sned my info out to both of you. i havent yet made a good edited version. what i did was to read through it all and highlight the most important stuff. it can be redundant but i bet you learn a few things...
-daniel.


--------------------
"habit is the ballast that chains the dog to its vomit" - s beckett


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Anonymous

Re: Rye
    #10850 - 04/07/00 11:50 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

quote:
i am using rye

In a single gram of commercial rye there is an estimated cell count of 50,000 to 100,000 bacteria, more than 200,000 actinomyces, 12,000 fungi and a large number of yeasts.

MuhahahahahahHAhAHHAhAHAH *cough* *choke* *wheez*

err ahem... well party on dudes!

[This message has been edited by The Learner (edited April 07, 2000).]



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Anonymous

Re: Rye
    #10851 - 04/08/00 01:29 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I have been reading through this thread for a while now. Here's my two cents. I've been using rye for about three years now. Just let me say, yes it kicks all yer rice/cake whatever methods. Read some commercial books (Stamets, or whatever you like) and almost all of them use rye, especially for psilocybes. It is important (as Rebelmoon) mentioned to pre-soak rye, it does germinate endospores and makes for less likelyhood of contamination. Those of you who have had problems with rye, look no further than the very beginning, the rye itself. If your rye contaminates easily, that means it is cheap, probably not organic and likely designed for animal feed where sterility isn't too important. Buy some decent rye from a health food store that is labelled "Pure organic rye KERNELS", it's important to get kernals, the ground stuff sucks. As for the sterilization, I just pressure cook for 45-60mins. I then allow them to cool, then innoculate via agar wedge or liquid mycelium mix. I have found little difference between the two, if you have a good strain on agar it will cover a plate in 3 days and will colonize a jar in 8. The biggest advantages of rye over anything else are these; the kernal shape allows growth over a maximized surface area, very high nutritional content, easy to obtain. When your shrooms go from pins to fruitbodies, the mycelium has to amass large amounts of water and nutrients. The rye and a moist casing allows for this. I have gotten 14" shrooms with 1/2" to 3/4" stems before on rye. I once went away for the weekend and when I cam back the shrooms had pushed the lid right off my cooler! Anyways, I am really into using rye, it's the best as far as I'm concerned, not to say that anything else won't work, by why re-invent the wheel?

BTW What's up Rebelmoon?



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Anonymous

Re: Rye
    #10852 - 04/08/00 03:38 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Rebel would you please send me your agar info at deepthreat2005@hotmail.com. All your help is appreciated. Thanks!

------------------
Only you can prevent forest fires.
-Smokey the Bear

[This message has been edited by Diamondback (edited April 08, 2000).]



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Invisiblerebelmoon
enthusiast
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 204
Re: Rye
    #10853 - 04/08/00 04:05 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

whats up dirtydog!
diamondback, i will send you my agar notes along with a bunch of other shit. i consolidated it into one file for those other people so thats what youre getting.
anyone else while im at it?
-daniel.

[This message has been edited by rebelmoon (edited April 08, 2000).]



--------------------
"habit is the ballast that chains the dog to its vomit" - s beckett


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Anonymous

Re: Rye
    #10854 - 04/08/00 04:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Rebel, could you please send me your agar info too? You can do it at your leisure, and it is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

mattypie82@hotmail.com.



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Anonymous

Re: Rye
    #10855 - 04/08/00 05:10 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

YAY the herb image on posts is back
ohya, id like that info too...it would
probably be easier if someone were to post
it somewhere in the web, or in the grow/find section. seems like alot of ppl want it. well happy shroomin

------------------
Lady finger, dipped in moonlight
writing "What for?" across the morning sky
sunlight splatters, dawn with ansewer
darkness shrugs and bids the day goodbye



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OfflineHumidity
Mad Scientist
Registered: 04/02/00
Posts: 358
Loc: Somewhere in Northeast OH
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Rye
    #10856 - 04/08/00 05:36 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Hey rebel moon could you please send me the info that you were talking about above on rye and agar.

I have about 5MB for a web page that I do not use I could put it up so you don't have to e-mail everyone.
Thanks.



--------------------
_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


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Offlinevts1134
member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 159
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: Rye
    #10857 - 04/08/00 07:53 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

for all of you here who is asking for information though e-mail I would like to offer for sale The Mushroom Cultivator I have an extra copy and could give it away for 20+ whatever it would cost to ship it this is a great book and I reference it daily.


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, 10cc Syringe, Agar, Herb Grinder, Laminar Flow Hood, Malt Extract, Paul Stamets, Petri Dish, Potato Dextrose, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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