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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25754401 -

First one suggest the somatic muscular system is a part of mind, and that so to is the autonomous system a part of mind.
Second one suggest the somatic muscular systems are a part of mind.

I think you're splitting hairs here.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: sudly]
    #25754461 -

The posit that the mind is an actual autonomous and somatic muscular system is not the same as saying the somatic muscular systems are a part of mind.

A mainframe computer system is housed in a building, but the building is not part of the mainframe computer system.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25754468 -

let's try your point of view for the moment, how is the mainframe computer system powered?


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: sudly]
    #25754474 -

An autonomous mainframe could be powered by a number of means, for one, rats on tread wheals for the sake of argument

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25754498 -

Your suggestion is not analogous to a mind body problem then is it.. because normally the computing system would be powered via the building it is contained within. If rats powered it there would be no need for a building.

And what is the difference between saying the mind is an actual autonomous and somatic muscular system and saying somatic muscular systems are a part of mind?


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: sudly]
    #25754512 -

You changed the premise, during the argument, to fit the circumstance. I don't think that holds up under scrutiny.

Edited by Buster_Brown (01/19/19 07:54 PM)

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25754541 -

The only thing different in the second statement was that I didn't mention the autonomous system because the main focus so far has been on the somatic system.

It is still my belief that the autonomous systems and somatic systems are a part of mind. That no sole system represents what the mind is, and that it is achieved through an intermingling of these systems and the brain.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: sudly]
    #25754544 -

Great, you have a modified pillar to defend.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25754549 -

What exactly has been modified?


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: sudly]
    #25754574 -

Under pressure, the premise of the mind being a muscle, changed to an autonomous somatic muscle, and then to the plausibility that the somatic muscular systems are a part of mind, as a defensive maneuver apparently, against the jury deliberating solely on whether the mind is somatic.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25754602 -

In light of comment by rgv I thought it more descriptively accurate to say my beliefs were that the mind consisted of autonomous and somatic systems. The plausibility of the claim is something I wanted to discuss and it doesn't change the premise.

The deliberation is not on if the mind is somatic, but on whether and if so, how somatic systems are a part of mind.

I must say your acts of distortion are legendary.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: sudly]
    #25755054 -

Furthermore the appeal that "some things are impossible as far as we know," confronts a stumbling block in the shape of religious conviction. From the rhetoric presented the "we", who accept that some  things are impossible, must exclude the participants in prayer. Apparently "we" in the scientific community insist that any linguistic response they receive must necessarily come somatic muscular systems, which is simply not the case. Now you'll have to impress us to the "fact" that anybody with ties to a religious organization cannot by default be a member of the scientific community.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25755066 -

As far as any understanding goes, human beings are incapable of flight through the flapping of their hands.

Quote:
Buster_Brown said: Apparently "we" in the scientific community insist that any linguistic response they receive must necessarily come somatic muscular systems, which is simply not the case.



I don't understand?

It's pretty ironic some religious folk are a part of the scientific community but they surely are, I know a guy who is pretty religious but still believes in evolution and is fascinated by chemistry.

Some of the views taken within the scientific community are surely at odds with religious texts, but cherry picking's a pretty common thing among the religiously inclined.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25755077 -

Haha, anyone who claims to receive spiritual communication must be deranged because the "we" accept that this is impossible. The "we" then reject any communication from the Church of England and from the University of Oxford by association. I think the "we" is better construed as "I".

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25755089 -

Not necessarily, though anyone who thinks humans can flap their hands to fly may need a new jacket and lots of care.

Church communications are context dependent, pushing for no contraceptives can be harmful, pushing for loving can be helpful, but not if you're gay lol


Publications by the university of Oxford are G.

Quote:
Scientists have established a link between brain damage and religious fundamentalism

A study published in the journal Neuropsychologia has shown that religious fundamentalism is, in part, the result of a functional impairment in a brain region known as the prefrontal cortex. The findings suggest that damage to particular areas of the prefrontal cortex indirectly promotes religious fundamentalism by diminishing cognitive flexibility and openness—a psychology term that describes a personality trait which involves dimensions like curiosity, creativity, and open-mindedness.

Religious beliefs can be thought of as socially transmitted mental representations that consist of supernatural events and entities assumed to be real. Religious beliefs differ from empirical beliefs, which are based on how the world appears to be and are updated as new evidence accumulates or when new theories with better predictive power emerge. On the other hand, religious beliefs are not usually updated in response to new evidence or scientific explanations, and are therefore strongly associated with conservatism. They are fixed and rigid, which helps promote predictability and coherence to the rules of society among individuals within the group.

Religious fundamentalism refers to an ideology that emphasizes traditional religious texts and rituals and discourages progressive thinking about religion and social issues. Fundamentalist groups generally oppose anything that questions or challenges their beliefs or way of life. For this reason, they are often aggressive towards anyone who does not share their specific set of supernatural beliefs, and towards science, as these things are seen as existential threats to their entire worldview.

https://www.alternet.org/2019/01/scientists-have-established-link-between-brain-damage-and-religious-fundamentalism/




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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: sudly]
    #25755094 -

Haha, "AlterNet"- Alternative history commonly regarded as "speculative fiction"

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25755102 -

Quote:
As implied earlier in the introduction, previous research indicates that certain forms of religiosity are associated with a preference for certainty and avoidance of uncertainty (Jost, Glaser, Kruglanski, & Sulloway, 2003). In particular, fundamentalism is associated with the need for cognitive closure (Brandt & Reyna, 2010; Saroglou, 2002), which mediates the relationship between fundamentalism and prejudice towards value-violating outgroups, with close-mindedness and preference for order and predictability accounting for the effect (Brandt & Reyna, 2010). A need for cognitive closure represents the desire for predictability and rigidity instead of openness, and is correlated with conservative, conforming values (Calogero, Bardi, & Sutton, 2009; Kruglanski & Webster, 1996). Recently, a number of studies have found an inverse relationship between analytic thinking and religious disbelief (Gervais & Norenzayan, 2012; Norenzayan, Gervais, & Trzesniewski, 2012; Willard & Norenzayan, 2013). These studies describe analytic thinking as an underminer of religious beliefs which may either suppress default tendencies to form religious beliefs or inhibit culturally acquired concepts. Finally, it has been argued that religious beliefs arise from deficits in perceptual tracking of ecological variation (e.g. Foster & Kokko, 2009; Guthrie, 1993). Collectively, these findings predict that fundamentalism may be related to reduced cognitive flexibility and trait openness, and that these cognitive strategies critically rely on processing in the PFC.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5500821/





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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: sudly]
    #25755110 -

I don't think the 'preference for certainty' in context with cognitive disorder is going to help your position.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25755121 -

Are you certain it's not impossible to fly via the flapping of your hands?


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: sudly]
    #25755143 -

depends on the conditions, occupant of space station, diver...

Did you change the title of this thread from "The mind is a muscle" to "The human mind is a muscle"? cuz that would constitute a change of mind.

Yes, the human mind is tied to the sensory somatic nervous system.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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