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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
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 Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength 
#745344 - 07/14/02 11:22 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Chimpanzees (and similar monkeys and apes) are roughly 10 times stronger than a human (pound for pound). Let's NOT argue about the factor of 10. Let's instead discuss why or how we have lost so much physical strength compared to our furry brethren. (plus other things like sense of smell, speed, reaction time)
As an aside, I once saw an enraged 45 pound chimp pull apart the bars on his cage which were 0.5" iron! (Shades of King Kong.) A dozen tranquilizer darts had no effect, so he was shot & killed.
Here are a few possibilities:
Disuse
Breeding
Lowered evolutionary pressures
Humans were a physically flawed mutation (lack of fur!)
Humans are the result or alien DNA experiments (thought I would add this early)
Strength is latent, but infrequently accessed.
Our limited psychic energy is directed more into the mind than the body.
Other.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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RebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: Swami]
#745414 - 07/14/02 12:17 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think that the differences between the strength of man and the strength of chimpanzee (along with the other differences you mentioned) are mainly due to the different evolutionary paths we have taken.
Species evolve to survive. Chimpanzees (obviously) do not have the brain power that humans have for some reason evolved. They do not have language either. These are the tools that we use to survive in our environment. Since the chimpanzees do not have these tools, they have evolved great strength and superior senses in order to survive in their environment.
That is the way that I look at it. Don't ask me why we are the only species to evolve such immense brain power though 
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Namaste.
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 Larrythescaryrex
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: Swami]
#745472 - 07/14/02 12:53 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think the strength issue maybe disuse, however I am not sure about the others. I am not oppose to the idea of alien dna manipulation (including higher powers).
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RIP Acidic_Sloth
Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: Swami]
#745546 - 07/14/02 01:33 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think our evolutionary energy is being concentrated on dimensions higher than the physical.
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 { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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llib
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: Swami]
#745561 - 07/14/02 01:43 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Unfortunately, the difference has nothing to do with spirituality, dna , manipulation. The best example i can use to clarify this point is to have you look at a cat's hind legs. If you feel the tendon the tendon comes across the joint at a rather acute angle. This creates a larger "momentum arm". The answer is all about understanding moment arms.
The moment arm is the perpendicular distance from the joint to the line of the muscles pull. So if the chimp was exhibiting 10 lbs of force and his momentum am was 10 he would be generating 100 of power (units dont matter for discussion sake). The same 10 lbs of force being utilized across a momentum arm of one in a human, (these ratios arent true just an example), then the human would be exhibiting 10 units of power. The ape with a contractile force from its muscle as the human's muscle is applying 10 times the power of the human.
Animals are suited, in general with larger momentum arms than humans. Additionally, and this is peculation, I owuld guess that they have a higher percentage of "fast twitch" muscle fibers in their muscle bellies than humans
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Larrythescaryrex
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: llib]
#745591 - 07/14/02 01:55 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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your comment does not address the sensual issues of the discussion, only the physical.
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RIP Acidic_Sloth
Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011
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llib
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what do you mean by "sensual"
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EvilGir
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: llib]
#745637 - 07/14/02 02:26 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Humans are capable of great potential, we only use a very small amount of our
strength ect (including the brain). Its sorta like haveing a new device hooked up to you computer but the software dosent recognised it. We do have hidden energys that most of us are unable to tap into. I have even seen report of people blowing out tv sets cos there body is producing a high electro magnetic field and people lifting heavy objects in a crisis situation. It our minds that stops us not our bodys.
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Fighting the man the best way I can.
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llib
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: EvilGir]
#745645 - 07/14/02 02:31 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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scientifically speaking you are correct
at times of complete duress when physical strength is needed, there are numerous accounts of superhuman strength
simple caffeine makes you stronger try it
lift some weights, get your max
next day take two vivrin 45 minutes beforehand, now try your max
caffeine is an anticholinesterase inhibitor and increases cyclic amp at the muscle cell membrane which cause the sarcoplasmic reticulum to dump calcium that binds to troponin and the tropomyosin complex increasing contractility
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EvilGir
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: llib]
#745657 - 07/14/02 02:39 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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True but they are substance like PCP can praticle make you imortial. You could take massive damage to you body and still be on the move. But this could also be down to the drug inducing a primial mind set as PCP can make you extremley dangerous to you self and other people. Basicly a superhuman Pscyo.
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Fighting the man the best way I can.
Edited by jezu (07/14/02 02:42 PM)
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Larrythescaryrex
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: llib]
#745692 - 07/14/02 02:56 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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relating to the senses. I.E. sight, smell, ect.
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RIP Acidic_Sloth
Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011
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Anonymous
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: Swami]
#745711 - 07/14/02 03:04 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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"Let's instead discuss why or how we have lost so much physical strength compared to our furry brethren."
This presupposes that we once had the same strength. In order to so we have to posit evolution as the reason for the origin of man. The evidence for such is still sadly lacking contrary to the opinion of empirical science. The gap between man and other primates is huge. It always has been and it always will be.
The best answer to explain the difference so far has been llib's:
"The moment arm is the perpendicular distance from the joint to the line of the muscles pull. So if the chimp was exhibiting 10 lbs of force and his momentum am was 10 he would be generating 100 of power (units dont matter for discussion sake). The same 10 lbs of force being utilized across a momentum arm of one in a human, (these ratios arent true just an example), then the human would be exhibiting 10 units of power. The ape with a contractile force from its muscle as the human's muscle is applying 10 times the power of the human."
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Sclorch
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 Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: Swami]
#745715 - 07/14/02 03:04 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Maybe we're all just really lazy. Using our superstrength takes too much energy... we'd rather just sit back and chill with some dank... or a beer (for all you non-psychonauts that probably aren't reading this anyways).
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Posts: 15,413
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: RebelSteve33]
#745866 - 07/14/02 04:06 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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...are mainly due to the different evolutionary paths we have taken.
OK, but what is the evolutionary ADVANTAGE to being weaker? It is not an either/or proposition.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: EvilGir]
#745877 - 07/14/02 04:11 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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It our minds that stops us not our bodys.
To some degree. However, it is important to note that other animals don't have to do any form of mental training to tap into this power.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: Swami]
#745916 - 07/14/02 04:28 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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OK, but what is the evolutionary ADVANTAGE to being weaker?
It doesn't have to be an advantage, there are many instances in nature of a species loosing an ability or function which is no longer needed. Examples that come to mind are blind cave fish, eyesight is no longer needed and they have lost the ability to see.
Edited by Evolving (07/14/02 04:29 PM)
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RebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
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Loc: Arizona
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: Swami]
#745919 - 07/14/02 04:29 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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I did not say that the weakness of man's strength as compared to chimpanzee's is an advantage. That weakness is a disadvantage that is countered by our strength in mind.
Chimps are weaker in mind than humans, but that weakness is countered by their physical strength, which allows them to survive. This same difference in survival mechanisms is seen throughout the entire animal world.
A cheetah relies on its speed to survive, for example, while slow moving turtles rely mainly on their armored shells to survive. Each species evolves certain skills and characteristics that suit it best for survival.
In the case of man, our mind proved to be our best tool for survival; and so muscles became less important. In the case of chimps, strength and better senses proved to be their best tool for survival.
Does this answer your question??
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Namaste.
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jonnyshaggs420
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: Swami]
#746579 - 07/14/02 08:12 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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I personally beleive that as humans, we have removed ourselves from any evolutionary stresses. There is nothing to select for strength. When a baby is born the doctors do all they can to keep it alive, regardless of health or strengh etc. Hell even people with debilitating diseases are kept alive long enough to breed and spread the crappy genetics.
Our larger brains have removed us from the very cycle that keeps our gene pool strong. Now any freak or mutant can live to atleast 50. Hell look at shroomism, if we were still in the cycle he'd have been eaten by a lion already!
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Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice
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chemkid
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 Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
#746701 - 07/14/02 08:51 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just to let y'all know....aside from all the evolutionary answers; one of the reasons that chimps appear to be stronger is just that "appear". They have done studies on the muscle mass and density and found chimps to be only slightly higher than a well fit human. The main differance comes in how our bodies and minds interpret pain signals. When human begin to exert themselves some level of pain or perception is immediate and will increase as the exertion increases. We get to the point where it hurts too much so we "stop tying to lift 500 pounds for example. We feel pain a lot sooner and our minds and bodies interpret that as "time to quit". Pain is an evolutionary developement that tell us when our bodies are in danger of being damaged or hurt in some way. I hope this sheds some light for someone.
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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.
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LOBO
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: Swami]
#746985 - 07/15/02 01:13 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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One word "remote control"
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RebelSteve33
Amateur Mycologist
Registered: 05/28/02
Posts: 3,774
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: LOBO]
#746993 - 07/15/02 01:26 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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that's two words 
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Namaste.
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manmoutainmurphy
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: RebelSteve33]
#747220 - 07/15/02 05:24 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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LOL, good answer.
Here's another consideration. Chimps, while capable of moving fast on the ground, are no great shakes in running distances. Their whole defense strategy is based around a quick mad scramble to a tree, up the tree, and then screech at the predator down below and throw things. In Chimps, the arm is about 50% of the movement mechanism, and hence gets worked consistantly at a considerably higher leval then is the case for humans. You don't think carrying your body weight is work, try walking on your hands for a distance. Or do a lot of dips.
Humans are truely bipedal. And as such, our leg muscles are much stronger then those in are arms. After all, the legs are in constant use among humans to support our weight (plus anything we might happen to be carrying, something that being bipedal makes possible to a greater degree then is at all possible for chimps).
In a short dash, a chimp is much faster then a human. But if one is talking about covering a signifigantly larger distance, a human will easily outrun a chimp.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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There should be more chimps in the Olympics... you know, to add a little diversity, they're so species-biased now.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Anonymous
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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: Swami]
#747553 - 07/15/02 08:20 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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chemkid
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: ]
#748606 - 07/15/02 03:43 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's ridiculous.....200 years is a blink of the eye in evolutionary terms. Not enough time to have any developement what so ever. However I do agree with you that for the most part blacks have superior strength and stamina. Whites for the most part have superior intellect. Of course this is an extreme generalization at best. There are very smart black people and very good white athletes. Instead of being politically correct and trying to prove everyone is the same, lets embrace the differences between races or sexes and accept them. There is no problem in believing that there are differences, the problem comes in thinking that as a people you are better than another group of people. All races and both sexes are beautiful with much to offer the world.
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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.
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Anonymous
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: chemkid]
#748655 - 07/15/02 03:55 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Unfortunately there was a time when blacks were treated as livestock and slave owners actually arranged pairings to increase physical strength and endurance of their children. Jimmy the Greek got fired from TV (ABC?) for pointing this out.
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llib
journeyman
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: chemkid]
#748683 - 07/15/02 04:05 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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a little known fact scientifically speaking, for fear of being politically incorrcet, is that blacks possess a higher percentage of fast twitch muscle fibers in muscle sthan whites.
fats-twitch- power
slow twitch-endruance
however, i have not reconciled why some of the africans win the ultra ultra long marathons , like th ethiopians, possibly because they have to run great distances to deliver information and that ha sbeen built into their systems.
and again, when i observe a black athletes calf , i notice, while i cant measure it a larger moment arm than whites. This could also explain why they can typically jump higher than whites.
again akin to a cat, a cat can jump into the air roughly 5-6 times its height
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ArisEve
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: llib]
#748841 - 07/15/02 04:55 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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In responce to your post about the black race being able to run faster and have more stamina than whites, look at maurice green, I am to believe there is an extra muscle of some sort or a longer extension of the calf muscle which gives them than extra jump or faster run. If you look at a fully delevolped body builder that is black his leg will be much more defined. However you look at a whites and it is more stalky, thick and i dunno just my observation. But one good way people from ethopia and other countries train for running is in the mountains. Training in higher altitude creates a need for more red blood cells thus in turn creating more "carriers" for oxygen. When you come down from that altitude and run in the olympics or somewhere you are not in need of those extra red blood cells but they are still there and can provide a greater capasity for endurance for your muscles allowing them to run longer, harder, and faster.
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Simple pleasures in life are only to momentarily distract you from the obviousness of lifes reality...
-ArisEve
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llib
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: ArisEve]
#748869 - 07/15/02 05:01 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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agreed altitude training will help develop the efficiency of the hemoglogin /oxygen carrying capacity and its abiliy to convert it efficiently to myoglobin usgae intracellularly
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francisco
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Re: Human vs. Chimpanzee Strength [Re: Swami]
#751109 - 07/16/02 01:34 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Our brain is bigger,didn't need all those muscles to get by.
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Well...Maybe just a little.
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