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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25746782 -

Buster_Brown said:
laughingdog said:
based on the assumptions in this thread, especially re mind and transferring memories, it would seem you all are more confident of memory being 'object like' than it is in fact...
see for example:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/07/180717194600.htm




The word "Suggest" in the article supports a hypothesis less definite than "Fact":

Quote:
"We suggest that what a rememberer has in mind when recalling fictional improbably early memories is an episodic-memory-like mental representation consisting of remembered fragments of early experience and some facts or knowledge about their own infancy/childhood.


Second article:"as best as we know now,"


And your point is what?
That memory is a stable permanent always reliable record?
And you have statistical evidence of this?
And you have studied the literature on false, but well intentioned, first person witnesses from court cases.
And can account for false and implanted memories?
And  that very few have any sort of photographic memory?
And many are absent minded?
And fail tests on material they just studied?
Just because all the details aren't worked out, and one can point this out, doesn't mean that some accurate conclusions can't be drawn. This nonsense is typical of creationist arguments.
Especially when one has no superior theory capable of making any accurate predictions.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: laughingdog]
    #25746821 -

Quote:
Just because all the details aren't worked out, and one can point this out, doesn't mean that some accurate conclusions can't be drawn.


The chance that the arrived at conclusions are false are included in a well worded hypothesis; Something your source from Quora seems to have overlooked.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25746824 -

I’d argue a heck of a lot is known about the brain and its various pathways throughout the body.

As too are the effects of will known. As for the causes that’s debatable as it may differ between individuals.

What do you mean don’t get caught up in the illusion that you’re doing it?

And I’ve recently come across an idea that I’m looking further in to that posits, ‘action precedes perception’.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25746924 -

DividedQuantum said:
...One has to flex that brain muscle to get results, and the fact of the matter is that that flexing is the extent of one's "free will." In this sense, I agree with you. But, again, it is really only a metaphor and a convenient way of thinking about it.


flexing is not the extent of "free will" but rather it is the opposite of slothfulness, it is the application of mental energy.

free will is what transcends reflex (including the reflex to get things done).

this transcending of reflex response to one's predicaments occurs when you are aware of your mental contents and can see a way to make a desired change over time, and then you also do use the flexing or application of mental energy to keep steering towards your perceived goal.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #25746957 -

sudly
Many of Robert Louis Stevenson's
stories came to him in dreams

I wonder how that fits the theories here

must be someway to make it fit.

Perhaps the greatest psychological healer Milton Erickson,
when asked about his theory of psychology,
said he formed a new one for every patient.

just might be something to learn from that attitude

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25746966 -

Buster_Brown said:
Quote:
Just because all the details aren't worked out, and one can point this out, doesn't mean that some accurate conclusions can't be drawn.


The chance that the arrived at conclusions are false are included in a well worded hypothesis; Something your source from Quora seems to have overlooked.


You are of course welcome to disagree. And to try and show you are better informed and more logical, but as far as I can tell have nothing interesting to say on the subject of memory itself.
So there would be no point in replying, especially as no interesting view has been presented by yourself on the subject of memory, and I have no need or desire to score some sort of debating points, if there even are such things.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: laughingdog]
    #25747034 -

Quote:
You are of course welcome to disagree.


I did, and once again you lose.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25747302 -

according to you which is a v. small sample of a population.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: sudly]
    #25747322 -

sudly said:
What do you mean don’t get caught up in the illusion that you’re doing it?



I mean that the ego-self might feel it has just cleverly solved a difficult equation, when in reality it was a happening in the subconscious mind that one really had nothing to do with in an intentional way. Such brain output seems just to happen; we are present merely at the beginning and end of the chain. The nature of self can be decidedly ambiguous at times.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25747490 -

redgreenvines said:
according to you which is a v. small sample of a population.


Ah! an innuendo supporting the ability of a democracy to elevate a theory to the status of fact.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25748366 -

clearly one man is making a very good go of being the only one who believes a wall has to be erected at the northern limit of Mexico, and all of his facts are unique as well.

very strong muscle in the head there perhaps.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25748400 -

"your brain is like an engine, and you can blow out parts"

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25748665 -

DividedQuantum said:
sudly said:
What do you mean don’t get caught up in the illusion that you’re doing it?



I mean that the ego-self might feel it has just cleverly solved a difficult equation, when in reality it was a happening in the subconscious mind that one really had nothing to do with in an intentional way. Such brain output seems just to happen; we are present merely at the beginning and end of the chain. The nature of self can be decidedly ambiguous at times.


So you're saying that math equations aren't solved intentionally?

When I was studying I read the material and put in effort to figure out the solutions so I can only see this sort of happening if someone is a math professor and they're doing an equation they've done a thousand times over to the point they've developed some sort of muscle memory to figure it out..

So to me it seems these equations may be solved more efficiently through motor learning.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: sudly]
    #25749112 -

Well, to look at it that way, it is one's intent to solve an equation, of course. My contention is that it's a little disingenuous, in an objective way, to brag about it, since one's subconscious mind carried out the computations, and one's "self" is only aware of the input and output. I will say, though, that in some way, one's flexing of the brain muscle is necessary for the process to be carried out. So it's rather subtle.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25749361 -

It’s disingenuous to say I solved a math equation?

Where are you getting this information from..


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #25749432 -

"Disingenuous" perhaps in that "neurological circuits... involve a redirection of consciousness through pathways in the fabric of the cosmos itself."

http://nine.dividedquantum.info/

Which could mean that your mind is not actually performing the task.

The information being distributed by the Akashic Hall of Records, so to speak.

Therein laying the principle that if the mind is a muscle at all, it merely needs to push the right buttons to get what it needs.

Edited by Buster_Brown (01/17/19 02:17 PM)

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: sudly]
    #25749481 -

sudly said:
It’s disingenuous to say I solved a math equation?

Where are you getting this information from..



No. It's disingenuous to take full credit for a process that is almost entirely automatic. Buster's suggestion is also relevant, for related reasons.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25749742 -

I could say the exact same thing about muscle movement, that it’s disingenous to take credit for moving your foot or arm.

No one looks at a math equation and then has it automatically or subconsciously calculated for them without their knowledge. Sure, neural processes happen, though they also happen when you move your foot or blink. In one way blinking could be considered a subconscious action, as too could breathing, but to suggest math equations are subconsciously completed is utterly ridiculous to me.

This is an incredibly silly suggestion in my opinion. Plus what Bb linked was full of quantum flapdoodlery with little to no substance I could see. Again feel free to fill me in. Or at least to point out its relevance.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: sudly]
    #25749796 -

Your point is well taken, and I think what is happening is that we are taking different perspectives on the same phenomena. Your way of seeing it is not wrong, and my way works for me.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25750171 -

My way of seeing it still doesn’t see how what Bb said is related.

I don’t even know what phenomena you’re talking about.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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