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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25743120 -

the brain hosts the phenomenon of mind/consciousness, because the brain receives sensations, makes memories, and mixes those memories with the streaming of sensations as perceptions, any one of which could cascade into more memory (thought) including all reactions.

if you think the brain can exist without flesh, then a mind can be disembodied (at least in your thought) but you and I still think differently on this topic


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25743136 -

Personally I think the mind (as distinctly separate from the brain) can be transferred from one body to another; But that's neither here nor there in this argument. Sudly's claim is with the department of dictionaries at the university and no longer with a highschool dropout.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25743177 -

your idea of transferring a mind from one body to another is interesting, and I have no doubt that some impressions, ideas, sensations, feelings can IN PART be transferred to another brain using helmets and electrostimulation.
However, the personality and several decades of memory are non-trivial to access in a flash, and even harder to implant since memories are formed over time, and that time relation is what makes them useful to a creature so that they can form reasonable attitudes to situations as they arise.


you do not have to declare where you stand on the matter.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25743232 -

Quote:
can IN PART be transferred to another brain using helmets and electrostimulation.


...discounting telepathy. Yes, well, which jury can we have faith in on that one?

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25743260 -

it's really not up to a jury you know.


telepathy, FTL travel, other universes, these things are not made real or unreal by taking a vote.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25743311 -

Ha! I wonder if sudley's issue will be decided upon by a vote at the uni.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25743455 -

he might get some cash which can keep the issue open and active for a while.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25743563 -

Technically then, until such time as the big wigs change their tune, I win.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25743947 -

every one's a winner, BB


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: sudly]
    #25743994 -

The brain, muscles and bones have in common, that if you don't train them, they will shrink. I guess that's true for more, if not most organic components...

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25744747 -

Buster_Brown said:
Quote:
It's interesting that anyone would suggest somatic systems are not correlated to mind interactions as they are responsible for gathering environmental information and relaying it to the brain via the CNS.


Yes there is a correlation between the mind and body, the former using signals from the latter. It has not been suggested here that there is no correlation between them, but only that they are separate which could mean that the mind could continue to function after the body dies.


That by no means does mean the mind could continue to function if the body dies.

It was suggested the mind and body are distinct, yet at the same time that they hold a correlation to one another, which to me would diminish their distinctiveness.

Can you humour me then, what would it mean to you if the somatic system was a part of the mind?

I can agree with this however,
Quote:
I have no doubt that some impressions, ideas, sensations, feelings can IN PART be transferred to another brain using helmets and electrostimulation.



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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: sudly]
    #25744890 -

Quote:
what would it mean to you if the somatic system was a part of the mind?


It would mean to me that the mind acquired a vehicle and operated it.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25744933 -

I think the mind is subject to affiliations and associations that can instigate psychosomatic phenomena that can persist after the association or affiliation has been consciously rejected. For instance the affiliations with a church group or the associations with an ethnic background could underlay illness post transformation, or post relocation.

Edited by Buster_Brown (01/15/19 05:43 AM)

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #25745373 -

based on the assumptions in this thread, especially re mind and transferring memories, it would seem you all are more confident of memory being 'object like' than it is in fact...
see for example:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/07/180717194600.htm

Forty percent of people have a fictional first memory
β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”
http://brainblogger.com/2011/07/14/memory-not-as-good-as-we-think/

β€œβ€¦.However, there are a number of confounding factors: 1) as best as we know now, memories are not stored in the brain like photographs or audio recordings of events; memories are recreated when they accessed; 2) memory is unreliable; 3) false memories are common…..” etc. article
β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-memories-are-literally-recreated-each-time-they-are-remembered
Is it true that memories are literally recreated each time they are remembered?

οΏΌβ€œJeff Kesselman, Deeply read amateur,married to someone with a psych BS.
Answered Apr 13 2014 Β· Author has 11.7k answers and 15.3m answer views

"Yes.Β  This is well established in psychology.

With the exception of people with true "photographic memories" we actually have very bad memories for raw sense information such as what we saw or heard.Β  What our memories do best is build associations.Β  These take the form of impressions or feelings.Β  We remember best impressions that come with strong emotional reactions.....”

it would seem that like the self which manifests differently according to the role being played, age, and gender etc. ; that both memory and mind are to some degree rather relative, mutable, and actually always in flux, so to think of them, and discuss them as  independent from environment objects, as opposed to interrelated constantly changing (every micro second) processes (with numerous interrelated feedback loops)(as well as parallel processing) **, can only lead to inaccurate conclusions IMO.  Thus mind is very different from muscle in important respects. but also very different from any notions of an immaterial mind and very different from any notion of a silicon based "mind", using binary based switching, at this time.

**
http://jonlieffmd.com/blog/neuronal-connections-and-the-mind-the-connectome

..."In a human fetus, almost a trillion neurons are produced. During the last month, they are produced at the unbelievable rate of 250,000 per second.  Eighty-to-hundred billion of these neurons will be utilized by experience and become permanent, while the other 900 billion will be pruned – that is, carefully dismantled with the material recycled by the brain’s unique immune system.

Later, during life, a relatively small number of new cells will be added in several parts of the adult brain related to memory and learning.  Amazingly, each of the remaining neurons can connect with up to a hundred thousand other cells. This number of connections is a truly enormous number: 10 thousand trillion. Even further complicating this picture is that these connections occur in many different ways, including different placements on neurons, as well as connections with the larger number of other brain cells that aren’t neurons.  Many of these connections change every day. While popularly it is thought that there is just one axon, in reality, the one axon ends with a large number of different connections.  As well, one neuron can have as many as 100,000 dendrites."

not meaningfully like a muscle

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: laughingdog]
    #25745678 -

memory is not an object it's more of a trail left in the sand


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25745742 -

"Where oh where did I leave that acetone?" -The debilitating effect of not having an onboard computer.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25745908 -

redgreenvines said:
memory is not an object it's more of a trail left in the sand


yes that must be it,
how silly of us all not to see it.
that accounts for false memory,
creating them differently from time to time,
repressed memory,
implanted memories,
fictional first memories,
and the very occasional others
who have a photographic memory
etc.

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: laughingdog]
    #25746031 -

laughingdog said:
based on the assumptions in this thread, especially re mind and transferring memories, it would seem you all are more confident of memory being 'object like' than it is in fact...
see for example:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/07/180717194600.htm




The word "Suggest" in the article supports a hypothesis less definite than "Fact":

Quote:
"We suggest that what a rememberer has in mind when recalling fictional improbably early memories is an episodic-memory-like mental representation consisting of remembered fragments of early experience and some facts or knowledge about their own infancy/childhood.


Second article:"as best as we know now,"

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: sudly]
    #25746068 -

I sympathize with your view, sudly, although I must point out that so little is known about the brain/consciousness interface, and the causes and effects of will, that it can really only be a metaphor.

One example for it is that, after heavy cannabis use, one must work to get one's brain faster and stronger again -- by working it out. In this sense, it's a constructive comparison.

I have often thought of it this way: Anyone who has done advanced maths knows the nature of effort. But don't get caught up in the illusion that you're "doing" it. One has to flex that brain muscle to get results, and the fact of the matter is that that flexing is the extent of one's "free will." In this sense, I agree with you. But, again, it is really only a metaphor and a convenient way of thinking about it.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: The human mind is a muscle. [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25746642 -

So can the working out of the brain or mind be taking drugs..

In even high doses..

Like running an engine.. on allot of Mushrooms or DXM.. for example..

The strain on the mind is the workout specifically


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Thank you for your Time...

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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