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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25704547 -

A plan? No, there was/is no plan.
My point was the gains made have been thrown out the window as well as 2 very experienced people let go.
I don't claim to understand the middle east problem either, it's too complex, something Trump needs to understand.
Add 9/11 to the mix and hey presto an unsolveable problem, far beyond Trump or anyone else probably.

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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: Stable Genius]
    #25704776 -

Stable Genius said:
A plan? No, there was/is no plan.
My point was the gains made have been thrown out the window...


Syria has been discussed at length in other threads.  I'm not aware of any gains we made there, but if you can fill me in, I'm all ears.

The country is almost stable now except for the US occupied territories, and I'm willing to bet our exit will serve to hasten the country's stabilization.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: krypto2000] * 2
    #25704891 -

krypto2000 said:
Being opposed to change in itself isn't bad, we all appreciate stability, but being opposed to change in the face of facts or a changing reality is incredibly detrimental.


There are a lot of changes that I would like to see in America, and I would like for those changes to happen abruptly, but I think the fact that our system is resistant to change is actually a benefit of our way of doing things.

Republicans didn't take over America overnight. It has been a calculated, concerted effort, spanning decades. Half of the country is Gerrymandered in their favor. They have honed in on a message that resonates powerfully with their base. They are absolutely belligerently partisan in congress.

All-the-while, Democrats have been spineless, and their constituents have demanded nothing more of them, until recently. We will get the changes that we want to see, when we earn them. We have to fight, the way Republicans have fought. We have to develop a message that resonates. We have to elect people who do more than pay lip service to our issues. The Democratic party needs to focus less on identity politics and centrism, and more on inspiring the country, and exposing bad ideas for what they are.

It is frustrating, and imperfect. I think it may be for the best, but I may be wrong.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #25704930 -

I agree change should be slow, too fast could be detrimental. That change should be slow because you're being mindful of the consequences though, not because you have to argue with people over established facts who refuse to research anything on their own yet feel their opinion is just as valuable on a given subject. Take global warming for example, or the flst earth theory.

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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25704957 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Stable Genius said:
A plan? No, there was/is no plan.
My point was the gains made have been thrown out the window...


Syria has been discussed at length in other threads.  I'm not aware of any gains we made there, but if you can fill me in, I'm all ears.

The country is almost stable now except for the US occupied territories, and I'm willing to bet our exit will serve to hasten the country's stabilization.


It’s like nobody cares about the genocide of the opposition


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: krypto2000] * 1
    #25704967 -

krypto2000 said:
I agree change should be slow, too fast could be detrimental. That change should be slow because you're being mindful of the consequences though, not because you have to argue with people over established facts who refuse to research anything on their own yet feel their opinion is just as valuable on a given subject. Take global warming for example, or the flst earth theory.


I agree.

I think the problem here is that Republicans and Democrats are playing different games. Republicans have a way of connecting to people on an emotional level. They do this by pretending to be ardent defenders of religious values, and family values. They talk like tough guys, act like bullies, and it makes them look like powerful leaders. All-the-while spreading a message of fear (of immigrants, socialism, other countries and cultures, etc). They play on the tribal nature of their constituents, and they've developed a nationalist message that resonates with their base.

(Democrats also play on our innate tribalistic nature, in a different way, using identity politics, which requires many different messages, in an attempt to unite many different 'tribes', and often precipitating into an anti-white sentiment, these days. It is far less effective, and I believe it has a galvanizing effect on their opponents.)

None of these things are intellectual in nature. Republican constituents vote with their heart, not with their head. They would never admit it, but Republican voters are incredibly emotional.

That's the crux of the problem in American politics. You can't have an intellectual discussion, when one side isn't playing that game at all.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25704978 -

Quote:

Syria has been discussed at length in other threads.  I'm not aware of any gains we made there, but if you can fill me in, I'm all ears.



Off the top of my head the 2000 mostly special forces troops the U.S. has in the north of Syria have assisted Kurdish fighters with U.S. led air strikes and broken IS into smaller groups.
The Kurds have led the ground battle which has not led to significant casualties for the U.S.
Leaving now is premature. Russia and Iran will end up with greater influence in the region.
If all this has already been discussed I’m sure you don’t need me to start Googling links. I can if you like though?

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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: Stable Genius]
    #25705009 -

Stable Genius said:
Off the top of my head the 2000 mostly special forces troops the U.S. has in the north of Syria have assisted Kurdish fighters with U.S. led air strikes and broken IS into smaller groups.
The Kurds have led the ground battle which has not led to significant casualties for the U.S.
Leaving now is premature. Russia and Iran will end up with greater influence in the region.
If all this has already been discussed I’m sure you don’t need me to start Googling links. I can if you like though?


What rights to the Kurds have to overthrow the democratically elected Government?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: koods]
    #25705013 -

koods said:
It’s like nobody cares about the genocide of the opposition


You mean nobody cares about civil war deaths?  I care; why are we stoking the flames?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25705066 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
What rights to the Kurds have to overthrow the democratically elected Government?


Shouldn't the question be "What has led the U.S. government to back the Kurds?"

Answer. This conflict has more sides to it than a simple civil war. Look at the countries involved.

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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #25705124 -

Stable Genius said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
What rights to the Kurds have to overthrow the democratically elected Government?


Shouldn't the question be "What has led the U.S. government to back the Kurds?"

Answer. This conflict has more sides to it than a simple civil war. Look at the countries involved.


Do you think we have a right to invade other countries against their will to further the interests of our petroleum industry?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25705141 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Do you think we have a right to invade other countries against their will to further the interests of our petroleum industry?


No sir, I do not. What's oil got to do with this topic? I was commenting on Trump's tweets re loosing Mattis and McGurk.

Let's face it, from where I sit there are only 3 thing that could fix the Middle East... Time... a Magic Wand... and we won't mention the 3rd.

Edited by Stable Genius (12/27/18 08:19 AM)

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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: Stable Genius] * 2
    #25705269 -

More Jews?

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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25705550 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
koods said:
It’s like nobody cares about the genocide of the opposition


You mean nobody cares about civil war deaths?  I care; why are we stoking the flames?


That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the systematic execution of prisoners of war and political prisoners.

https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/02/saydnaya-prison-amnesty-international/515838/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/world/syria-bodies/?utm_term=.a37d09531a28

Quote:
BEIRUT — As Syria’s government consolidates control after years of civil war, President Bashar al-Assad’s army is doubling down on executions of political prisoners, with military judges accelerating the pace they issue death sentences, according to survivors of the country’s most notorious prison.

In interviews, more than two dozen Syrians recently released from the Sednaya military prison in Damascus described a government campaign to clear the decks of political detainees. The former inmates said prisoners are being transferred from jails across Syria to join death-row detainees in Sednaya’s basement and then be executed in pre-dawn hangings.

Yet despite these transfers, the population of Sednaya’s once-packed cells — which at their peak held an estimated 10,000 to 20,000 inmates — has dwindled largely because of the unyielding executions, and at least one section of the prison is almost entirely empty, the former detainees sai



--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: krypto2000]
    #25705999 -

krypto2000 said:
More Jews?


... LSD25 into the water supply

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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: koods] * 1
    #25706038 -

What about the hundreds of thousands of people killed as a result of the US supported rebellion?  Should the slaughter just continue?  The country is becoming peaceful now; I'm even thinking about a trip there similar to my trip to Crimea last year which showed the official US stories are the ones that are untrue.

Again, the Amnesty International story was only based on anonymous testimony from released opposition prisoners.  Even the Amnesty Internation report says:  "Despite repeated requests by Amnesty International for access to Syria, and specifically for access to detention facilities operated by the Syrian authorities, Amnesty International has been barred by the Syrian authorities from carrying out research in the country and consequently has not had access to areas controlled by the Syrian government since the crisis began in 2011."

If we are to rely on testimony, we have Amnesty International's anonymous sources on the one side saying there are mass executions in the prisons, and we have non-anonymous sourses on the other side calling it fake news:

Associated Press:  Syria rejects Amnesty's report of mass hangings as 'untrue'

You can make believe that you know the truth, but until we have sufficient evidence, we don't actually know what the truth is.


Here's are more articles saying the Amnesty Report is bogus:

Global Research:  “Fake News” and Crimes against Humanity: Amnesty International Admits Syrian “Saydnaya” Report Fabricated Entirely in UK
MintPress News:  Amnesty International’s Kangaroo Report On Syria
Moon of Alabama:  Hearsay Extrapolated - Amnesty Claims Mass Executions In Syria, Provides Zero Proof
CounterPunch:  Amnesty International: Trumpeting for War… Again
Consortium News:  Amnesty International Stokes Syrian War


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: Stable Genius]
    #25706046 -

Stable Genius said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Stable Genius said:
This conflict has more sides to it than a simple civil war. Look at the countries involved.


Do you think we have a right to invade other countries against their will to further the interests of our petroleum industry?


No sir, I do not. What's oil got to do with this topic?


What are the "more sides to it" that you were referring to?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25706072 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
What about the hundreds of thousands of people killed as a result of the US supported rebellion?  Should the slaughter just continue?  The country is becoming peaceful now; I'm even thinking about a trip there similar to my trip to Crimea last year which showed the official US stories are the ones that are untrue.




Wow, you just sent me down a rabbit hole. I didn't know you went to Crimea! Do you have a blog, by any chance? Those pictures are beautiful, Falcon! Were you there for business?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25706080 -

I was referring to the presence of AlQueda/ISIS as well as this being a proxie war of strength between Russia and the U.S. as well as the growing influence of Iran in Syria. It's a mess, and that's the short version.
Did the Syrian government use barrel bombs on their own people or did the Rebels use them on themselves as propaganda. We are led to believe it was under the direction of Bashar al-Assad, but I don't know.
The truth is the first casualty of War.
We don't have access to the information the military does, so how can anyone really know the truth?

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Re: The Trump shutdown [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25706086 -

Quote:
the Amnesty International story was only based on anonymous testimony from released opposition prisoners.


Yeah I wonder why they don’t go on the record.

There is testimony. There are satellite images. There are the missing people. Syria is running a Nazi style death camp and you don’t want to believe it because it doesn’t fit your narrative.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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