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What Should We Do About Climate Change? * 1
    #25637866 -

Capitalism requires infinite growth to function. Infinite growth is not a sustainable model with climate change looming. So what should we do about that?
How do we deal with it?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from 11/25/18 06:54 AM until the end of time
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25637872 -

Please don’t use this thread to debate the merits of climate change as scientific fact. If you don’t believe it’s real just ignore the thread. Discussion should involve local, national, and global initiatives that can curb CO2 emissions and pollutions in the next decade or two.


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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25637913 -

An SO2 scrubber system is the informal name for flue gas desulfurization (FGD) technology, which removes, or "scrubs," SO2 emissions from the exhaust of coal-fired power plants.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25637967 -

The Ecstatic said:
Capitalism requires infinite growth to function. Infinite growth is not a sustainable model with climate change looming.


Can you prove this? I'm not sure that is true, it may be, but it doesn't ring as inherently true to me. I would say our current approach to capitalism may be, but I see nothing inherent about capitalism that relies on infinite growth nor anything inherently unsustainable about infinite growth.

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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: XUL]
    #25637970 -

XUL said:
An SO2 scrubber system is the informal name for flue gas desulfurization (FGD) technology, which removes, or "scrubs," SO2 emissions from the exhaust of coal-fired power plants.


What does this have to do with anything?

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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: krypto2000]
    #25637982 -

Scrubbers clean exhaust. Like the ones in coal powered plants.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25638015 -

Yeah, but ehat does that have to do eith the topic? I understand what you're saying, I don't understand why you're saying it.

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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25638027 -

XUL said:
An SO2 scrubber system is the informal name for flue gas desulfurization (FGD) technology, which removes, or "scrubs," SO2 emissions from the exhaust of coal-fired power plants.


This has nothing to do with climate change


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: koods] * 1
    #25638074 -

We need to fundamentally change our society from one that builds individual consumer units (people) that only know how to consume into one that is ok with the slowing pace of permaculture.  Convenience is used to enslave through classic conditioning,  wealth is used to remedy impatience and insulate those that are wealthy while showing the lower classes that if they sell their soul and planet they could be blessed with wealth also.

Reconnection with the environment and food sourcing is key, but the main issue is getting people off of the get rich or die trying brainwashing. If we prided ourselves on wellness and being a good person it would nip a lot of our issues out quickly. 

Instead of people hoarding money and being praised for it our culture should celebrate the people actually helping others.

Education and exposure to the world, seeing the repercussions of a disposable culture would hit home for many.  Instead we all chase the next shiny thing and pretend that we are not responsible for ourselves.

Until people value themselves and others over money nothing will change.


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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: krypto2000]
    #25638094 -

krypto2000 said:
The Ecstatic said:
Capitalism requires infinite growth to function. Infinite growth is not a sustainable model with climate change looming.


Can you prove this? I'm not sure that is true, it may be, but it doesn't ring as inherently true to me. I would say our current approach to capitalism may be, but I see nothing inherent about capitalism that relies on infinite growth nor anything inherently unsustainable about infinite growth.


You don’t see anything unsustainable about infinite growth on a planet with (already dwindling) finite resources?


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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 5
    #25638117 -

You missed the best answer:  Prepare for the end.

Humans aren't going to fundamentally change the way they live.  They aren't going to suddenly set aside their immediate desires in service of some long-term good.  That's not the way we're wired. 

Even if it were, it's too late.  If we reduced carbon emissions to zero right now, the planet would continue to warm for another 40 years.  Since zero emissions is an unattainable goal anytime soon, that only means that warming will continue for longer than 40 years and at a faster rate.

Tl;Dr: We're fucked.


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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: Enlil]
    #25638136 -

Enlil said:
You missed the best answer:  Prepare for the end.

Humans aren't going to fundamentally change the way they live.  They aren't going to suddenly set aside their immediate desires in service of some long-term good.  That's not the way we're wired. 

Even if it were, it's too late.  If we reduced carbon emissions to zero right now, the planet would continue to warm for another 40 years.  Since zero emissions is an unattainable goal anytime soon, that only means that warming will continue for longer than 40 years and at a faster rate.

Tl;Dr: We're fucked.



Yep.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25638140 -

Not unless there is a finite number of combinations and uses for those resources, no. To make a simple sustainable example you grow a tree, you make a bunch of chairs out of it and plant two more trees. When those trees are groen you harvest one and make more chairs, you still have the old chairs, now new chairs, a tree the same size growing as the original, and overall 3 trees worth of carbon sequestered.

You can keep doing this until most of the earths carbon is sequestered in chairs, at which point the oldest sets would have long since begun decomposing building more top soil and/or burning to grow more trees. At some point, if you keep doing this for millions of years, one can also presume you'll develop some type of chair technology that allows you to travel interstellarly and space for all we know may literally be infinite in size and resources. I'd wager that the lack of sustainablility is a function of the rate of growth with respect to how the resources are used, I see no obvious upper limits on the length of growth.

Besides that I was also questioning whether capitalism actually requires infinite growth to begin with though, I don't see evidence of that either. The farmer sells food to the carpenter and the logger to survive. The logger sells logs to the farmer and the carpenter. The carpenter repairs all of their houses. Throw in a black smith and miner to make the tools I guess to be complete and you have a completely sustainable capitlist society thst need not grow, only maintain what they have. So long as you are not harvesting the trees faster than they grow or iron faster than it is deposited you are net neutral on resources.

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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: krypto2000]
    #25638161 -

How much carbon was emitted to grow those trees, cut them down, mill them, work them into chairs, and ship them to their ending location?  How much fresh water?  How much soil nutrients? 

I'm not sure that you've thought this through very well.


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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: Enlil]
    #25638207 -

Are you actually saying it's impossible to make a chair from start to finish in a completely sustainable way? Growing trees doesn't release more carbon than it sequesters, if it did the earth would look more like venus and the rain forests would be causing our destruction.

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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: krypto2000]
    #25638218 -

Growing trees doesn't, but the process of converting trees to a chair might.  Unless/until you have complete data, you're just speculating that it might be sustainable, whatever that even means.

The Earth will grow trees on it's own.  I've yet to see it make a chair on it's own, however.

Besides, who cares about growing trees?  That's not a solution for the climate change problem we're in right now.  That can't even come close to keeping up with emissions, much less reduce atmospheric carbon concentration.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: Enlil]
    #25638236 -

I don't think that takes much imagination to figure out. I haven't seen a study citing there's enough oxygen in my bathroom to take a shower but I'm sure I will survive one.

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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: krypto2000]
    #25638242 -

Have at it, then.  How much carbon is emitted in the process of converting a tree into chairs and getting those chairs to end users?  I will patiently await your calculations.  Please show your work and data.  Thanks in advance.


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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: Enlil]
    #25638246 -

Enlil said:
Besides, who cares about growing trees?  That's not a solution for the climate change problem we're in right now.  That can't even come close to keeping up with emissions, much less reduce atmospheric carbon concentration.


Did you follow the thread? I'm disouting estatics two premises he rests on to support the thread. I never claimed making chairs is a solution to climate change, I claimed his question is based on unsupported reasoning.

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Re: What Should We Do About Climate Change? [Re: krypto2000]
    #25638249 -

It is, but your rebuttal is equally unsupported.  I'm just pointing that out.


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