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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week * 1
    #24321592 -

How stupid is this man? Can we please get a special prosecutor now?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html

Quote:
President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said that Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

The information Trump relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.

The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said that Trump’s decision to do so risks cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and National Security Agency.




--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (05/15/17 03:36 PM)

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: koods] * 2
    #24321735 -

So Trump is working with Russia to fight terrorism?  That doesn't sound terribly stupid to me.

What does concern me is the person who leaked this story to the Washington Post.  From your article:

Quote:
Trump went on to discuss aspects of the threat that the United States learned only through the espionage capabilities of a key partner.

“If that partner learned we’d given this to Russia without their knowledge or asking first, that is a blow to that relationship,” the U.S. official said.



Guess what?  Thanks to that official leaking this story to the Washington Post, that partner now knows about it.  :picard:

It seems to be the leaker of this story, not Trump, who just endangered national security.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: koods]
    #24321745 -

koods said:
How stupid is this man? Can we please get a special prosecutor now?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html

Quote:
President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said that Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

The information Trump relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.

The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said that Trump’s decision to do so risks cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and National Security Agency.







at worst, he'll get 2 years probation


similar to Petraeus giving classified info to his whore and all serious charges being dropped




yet i got royally fucked financially and slapped with 4 years of probation for driving some dried flowers across state lines



go figure


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24321755 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
So Trump is working with Russia to fight terrorism?  That doesn't sound terribly stupid to me.

What does concern me is the person who leaked this story to the Washington Post.  From your article:

Quote:
Trump went on to discuss aspects of the threat that the United States learned only through the espionage capabilities of a key partner.

“If that partner learned we’d given this to Russia without their knowledge or asking first, that is a blow to that relationship,” the U.S. official said.



Guess what?  Thanks to that official leaking this story to the Washington Post, that partner now knows about it.  :picard:

It seems to be the leaker of this story, not Trump, who just endangered national security.




while i see your point, i'ma have to disagree on the whole.  Trump, without approval, leaked classified information.  That is criminal (until the courts decide it's not, which is what will happen)


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: demiu5] * 2
    #24321782 -

The classified information Trump leaked was where he got certain information on ISIS.  The reason that was classified is because if that source knew he was compromised, he might not disclose any more information to the US.  The leaker of the story is the one who likely made the source aware he was compromised.

I agree, Trump shouldn't have said anything, but the leaker decided it was more important to make Trump look bad than to keep this a secret.  The leaker should be in a lot more trouble than Trump.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: demiu5]
    #24321784 -

Is it criminal or is it poor judgment at worst?

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: qman]
    #24321822 -

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/798



that would be a criminal code, making it a criminal act




Quote:
There are several federal laws prohibiting the leaking of classified information. Here we will focus on one specific statute, Title 18 of the U.S. Code, Section 798. This law prohibits the knowing and willful transmittal of specified classified information to an unauthorized person, but it pertains only to information relating to the communications intelligence systems and activities of the United States.

This means that any person who knowingly and willfully

    communicates;
    furnishes;
    transmits, or
    otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person:
    or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of    the United States any classified information

is in violation of the law. The type of classified information is any information either:

    concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
    concerning the design, construction, use, maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
    concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
    obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes
The penalty for this crime is up to 10 years in prison, a large fine, or both.





from:  http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/unauthorized-disclosure-of-classified-information.html


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: demiu5]
    #24321846 -

demiu5 said:
that would be a criminal code, making it a criminal act



According to Koods' article:
Quote:
As president, Trump has broad authority to declassify government secrets, making it unlikely that his disclosures broke the law.




--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: demiu5]
    #24321851 -

The US President can declassify any intelligence information, so it wouldn't be a criminal act.

Also, the story is now being reported as fake news.

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: qman] * 2
    #24321904 -

The White House says it's false, which to me is confirmation that it is true .


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24321908 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
demiu5 said:
that would be a criminal code, making it a criminal act



According to Koods' article:
Quote:
As president, Trump has broad authority to declassify government secrets, making it unlikely that his disclosures broke the law.







unless he officially declassified it beforehand, it would be classified.  so we will probably never know.


however, this still doesn't explain how Petraeus got off with 2 years of probation other than by being a 4-5 star general, which apparently puts him above federal law.






Quote:
Also, the story is now being reported as fake news.




gotta love it!


is Trump reporting it as fake news?





edit:  i wonder if the president can retroactively declassify classified information AFTER committing a criminal violation.  :lol:


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

Edited by demiu5 (05/15/17 05:36 PM)

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: demiu5]
    #24321931 -

The president could give the Russian the nuclear launch codes and it wouldn't be illegal. We aren't talking about legality. We are talking about a man who has such poor judgement that he's bragging about shit another country told us with the assurances that it would not be revealed to a third party.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24321939 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The classified information Trump leaked was where he got certain information on ISIS.  The reason that was classified is because if that source knew he was compromised, he might not disclose any more information to the US.  The leaker of the story is the one who likely made the source aware he was compromised.

I agree, Trump shouldn't have said anything, but the leaker decided it was more important to make Trump look bad than to keep this a secret.  The leaker should be in a lot more trouble than Trump.  :shrug:



The information was compromised when trump revealed it to a Russian spy.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: koods]
    #24321989 -

koods said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The classified information Trump leaked was where he got certain information on ISIS.  The reason that was classified is because if that source knew he was compromised, he might not disclose any more information to the US.  The leaker of the story is the one who likely made the source aware he was compromised.

I agree, Trump shouldn't have said anything, but the leaker decided it was more important to make Trump look bad than to keep this a secret.  The leaker should be in a lot more trouble than Trump.  :shrug:



The information was compromised when trump revealed it to a Russian spy.






you want Trump gone as much as i do.  why should it not be made into a criminal matter, assuming he didn't first declassify the information?  if he reveals seemingly benign classified info, what else may he reveal?


if the president commits domestic criminal acts, they should be tried as criminals


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: demiu5]
    #24322007 -

The president can do whatever he wants with classified info. That's a problem when the president is an idiot


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: koods]
    #24322018 -

koods said:
The president can do whatever he wants with classified info. That's a problem when the president is an idiot




your own article states he can declassify information.  it did not say he can share classified information with people that do not have that degree of security clearance to receive the classified information


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: demiu5]
    #24322028 -

The president has the authority to do whatever he wants with classified information. We are supposed to trust his jusgement in these matters. Does anyone actually trust trump with anything?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: koods] * 1
    #24322047 -

koods said:
The president has the authority to do whatever he wants with classified information. We are supposed to trust his jusgement in these matters. Does anyone actually trust trump with anything?





sure, within the realms of legality


i'm sorry, but unless the Russian he shared it with had security clearance, the president shared classified information with a foreign agent without security clearance to be able to receive such information.  that is a crime.  if he wants to wipe his ass with classified information, that's fine.



whether or not one can "do whatever they[sic] want with it" does not mean they can violate established criminal codes.  that would be like giving the president a license to kill [directly; not indirectly like all presidents do]


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: demiu5] * 1
    #24322176 -

If this story was true, who leaked it to the Washington Post.

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Re: Trump revealed highly classified program to Russian ambassador last week [Re: qman]
    #24322183 -

terrorism is a concern for both parties.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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