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Invisiblemabus
anguish this!

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 956
Electronic voting and Bush
    #2408869 - 03/08/04 10:31 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

This paperless eletronic voting is going to be the biggest mistake america ever made. Election fraud has always been rampant, now with electronic voting machines its even going to be easier.


Quote:

On "Super Tuesday:" Ralph Nader on Paperless Electronic Voting
A bedrock of democracy is making sure that every vote counts. The counting of votes needs to be transparent so people can trust that their vote is counted as they cast it. Paperless electronic voting on touch screen machines does not provide confidence to ensure votes are counted the way voters intend. The software on which votes are counted is protected as a corporate trade secret and the software is so complex that if malicious code was embedded no analysis could discover it. Further, because there is no voter verified paper record, it is not possible to audit the electronic vote for accuracy, nor is it possible to conduct an independent recount. This Primary Day six million voters will be voting on paperless electronic voting machines. This is a grotesquely designed, over?complicated expensive system fraught with the potential for mistakes and undetected fraud.

On July 23, 2003 the Johns Hopkins Information Security Institute reviewed the electronic voting system in Maryland and found that it had security "far below even the most minimal security standards...." Johns Hopkins computer security experts concluded: "If we do not change the process of designing our voting systems, we will have no confidence that our election results will reflect the will of the electorate."

Computers are inherently subject to programming error, equipment malfunction, and malicious tampering. If we are to ensure fair and honest elections, and retain voter confidence in our democratic process, we need to ensure that there are no such questions. Therefore, it is crucial that any computerized voting system provide a voter-verifiable paper audit trail and that random audits of electronic votes be conducted on Election Day. Paperless electronic voting machines make it impossible to safeguard the integrity of our vote thereby threatening the very foundation of our democracy.

The seller of the machines, the Diebold Corporation, is a supplier of money to one of the major party candidates, George W. Bush. The CEO and top officers of Diebold are major contributors to the Bush campaign. This does not pass the smell test. Voters should report immediately any suspected malfunctions and deficiencies at voting precincts around the country to their Board of Elections. And voters should urge their legislators to require a voter verified paper ballot trail for random audits and independent recounts.






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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Electronic voting and Bush [Re: mabus]
    #2408987 - 03/08/04 11:10 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Diebold was also involved in the whole Florida snafu.

I believe it was their software that was also found to
have kept no less than 3 seperate sets of books and
had completely unsecure transfer and modification
functionality such that during transfer data could be
schnarfed, changed and resent without any checks or
balances. It allowed for untrackable manual modifcations
to the balance sheets.


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Invisiblemabus
anguish this!

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 956
Re: Electronic voting and Bush [Re: afoaf]
    #2409197 - 03/08/04 11:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

afoaf, http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00064.htm
you got to read this link.

Quote:

It will suffice here to cite a couple of specific examples ? these are excerpts from the soon to be published " Black Box Voting: Ballot Tampering In The 21st Century". These examples of actual events are consistent with the existence and use of an electronic vote counting hack described above.

November 1990, Seattle, Washington - Worse than the butterfly ballot, some Democratic candidates watched votes alight, then flutter away. Democrat Al Williams saw 90 votes wander off his tally between election night and the following day, though no new counting had been done. At the same time, his opponent, Republican Tom Tangen, gained 32 votes. At one point several hundred ballots added to returns didn?t result in any increase in the number of votes. But elsewhere, the number of votes added exceeded the number of additional ballots counted. A Republican candidate achieved an amazing surge in his absentee percentage for no apparent reason. And no one seemed to notice (until a determined Democratic candidate started demanding an answer) that the machines simply forgot to count 14,000 votes.

November 1996, Bergen County, New Jersey - Democrats told Bergen County Clerk Kathleen Donovan to come up with a better explanation for mysterious swings in vote totals. Donovan blamed voting computers for conflicting tallies that rose and fell by 8,000 or 9,000 votes. The swings perplexed candidates of both parties. For example, the Republican incumbent, Anthony Cassano, had won by about 7,000 votes as of the day after the election but his lead evaporated later. One candidate actually lost 1,600 votes during the counting. ?How could something like that possibly happen?? asked Michael Guarino, Cassano?s Democratic challenger. ?Something is screwed up here.?

November 1999, Onondaga County, New York - Computers gave the election to the wrong candidate, then gave it back. Bob Faulkner, a political newcomer, went to bed on Election Night confident he had helped complete a Republican sweep of three open council seats. But after Onondaga County Board of Elections staffers rechecked the totals, Faulkner had lost to Democratic incumbent Elaine Lytel.

April 2002, Johnson County, Kansas - Johnson County?s new Diebold touch screen machines, proclaimed a success on election night, did not work as well as originally believed. Incorrect vote totals were discovered in six races, three of them contested, leaving county election officials scrambling to make sure the unofficial results were accurate. Johnson County Election Commissioner Connie Schmidt checked the machines and found that the computers had under- and over-reported hundreds of votes. ?The machines performed terrifically,? said Bob Urosevich, CEO of Diebold Election Systems. ?The anomaly showed up on the reporting part.?

The problem, however, was so perplexing that Schmidt asked the Board of Canvassers to order a hand re-count to make sure the results were accurate. Unfortunately, the touch screen machines did away with the ballots, so the only way to do a hand recount is to have the machine print its internal data page by page. Diebold tried to re-create the error in hopes of correcting it. ?I wish I had an answer,? Urosevich said. In some cases, vote totals changed dramatically.

November 2002, Comal County, Texas - A Texas-sized lack of curiosity about discrepancies: The uncanny coincidence of three winning Republican candidates in a row tallying up exactly 18,181 votes each was called weird, but apparently no one thought it was weird enough to audit. Conversion to alphabet: 18181 18181 18181 ahaha ahaha ahaha

November 2002, Baldwin County, Alabama - No one at the voting machine company can explain the mystery votes that changed after polling places had closed, flipping the election from the Democratic winner to a Republican in the Alabama governor?s race. ?Something happened. I don?t have enough intelligence to say exactly what,? said Mark Kelley of ES&S. Baldwin County results showed that Democrat Don Siegelman earned enough votes to win the state of Alabama. All the observers went home. The next morning, however, 6,300 of Siegelman?s votes inexplicably had disappeared, and the election was handed to Republican Bob Riley. A recount was requested, but denied.

November 2002, New York - Voting machine tallies impounded in New York: Software programming errors hampered and confused the vote tally on election night and most of the next day, causing elections officials to pull the plug on the vote-reporting Web site. Commissioners ordered that the voting machine tallies be impounded, and they were guarded overnight by a Monroe County deputy sheriff.

N ovember 2002, Georgia - Election officials lost their memory: Fulton County election officials said that memory cards from 67 electronic voting machines had been misplaced, so ballots cast on those machines were left out of previously announced vote totals. No hand count can shine any light on this; the entire state of Georgia went to touch-screen machines with no physical record of the vote. Fifty-six cards, containing 2,180 ballots, were located, but 11 memory cards still were missing two days after the election: Bibb County and Glynn County each had one card missing after the initial vote count. When DeKalb County election officials went home early Wednesday morning, they were missing 10 cards.







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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Electronic voting and Bush [Re: mabus]
    #2410246 - 03/09/04 09:39 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

?The machines performed terrifically,? said Bob Urosevich,
CEO of Diebold Election Systems. ?The anomaly showed up
on the reporting part.?


This is why there needs to be stringent code review by an
independent body for any voting software...

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles/Landes_Ambush.htm
http://www.talion.com/election-machines.html

quite a tangled web.

check out 'The Best Democracy Money Can Buy' by Greg
Palast. The first section has is an extensive piece of what
went on in Florida in 2000 and how these voting machine
companies operate.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: Electronic voting and Bush [Re: mabus]
    #2410871 - 03/09/04 01:33 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=st...givenbadballots

use an absentee ballot..and pray that it doesnt get binned...


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Invisiblemabus
anguish this!

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 956
Re: Electronic voting and Bush [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2411582 - 03/09/04 05:49 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

from afoaf's link
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles/Landes_Ambush.htm
Quote:

Personally, I'll never vote on a machine again if I can help it. For the next election, I'll vote "absentee" (i.e., through the mail). In fact, Oregon has wisely rejected voting machines altogether and handles its entire election through the mail. The state of Washington offers that option, and Colorado is considering mandatory mail-in voting.






use an absentee ballot..and pray that it doesnt get binned...

i will.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
addict
Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 470
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Electronic voting and Bush [Re: mabus]
    #2411604 - 03/09/04 06:16 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quite obviously, it's another attempt by Bush to steal teh election so him and Cheney can use the oil we've amassed from IRaq to drown baby seals and prevent minorities from being in the government. If you don't see this, you should get beamed back up to the mother ship and have your chip replaced!


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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: Electronic voting and Bush [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2411624 - 03/09/04 06:27 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

way to ignore the facts and instead focus on partisan
hate speech.

you're a real asset to the PAL discussions!


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 470
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Electronic voting and Bush [Re: afoaf]
    #2411650 - 03/09/04 06:40 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
way to ignore the facts and instead focus on partisan
hate speech.

you're a real asset to the PAL discussions!



*beams*


I don't really care, I don't think that either candidate is more or less qualified to run the nation. I like Bush because he is hated by the liberal scumbags in this country, and I really really hate them. I think that their is a cultural warfare taking place in America, and a vote for bush is a vote for the right thing. Idon't like everything that hes done, and I think the system of politics itself is designed to root out true patriot-types before they get in a position to do some harm to the status quo. I'm pretty much just working on attaining enough capital that I can own a secluded, nice house with a garden, a stocked fish pond, ample hunting grounds, total solar power and just live away from society (for most of the time). then I can travel and go back to my "Palace of Solitude". If i'm alive when "the shit" hits "the fan", I can take care of myself and my family, until then, I'm trying to keep the sinking ship somewhat afloat.


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Invisiblemabus
anguish this!

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 956
Re: Electronic voting and Bush [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2411674 - 03/09/04 06:54 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The seller of the machines, the Diebold Corporation, is a supplier of money to one of the major party candidates, George W. Bush. The CEO and top officers of Diebold are major contributors to the Bush campaign.




Quote:

ES&S, the largest voting machine company in America, claims to have counted 56% of the vote in the last four presidential elections. Again, it's owned by the ultra-conservative Omaha World-Herald Company, the McCarthy Group, and former owners of Business Records Corporation. ES&S was created from a merger between American Information Systems (AIS) and Business Records Corporation. Bob and Todd Urosevich founded AIS in the 1980's. Bob is now president of Diebold-Global, while brother Todd is a vice president at ES&S. Business Records Corp. was partially owned by Cronus, a company that seems to have a lot of connections to the notorious Hunt brothers from Texas, as well as other individuals and entities, including  Rothschild, Inc.. Right wing Republicans Howard Ahmanson (who financed AIS) and Nelson Bunker Hunt have both heavily contributed to The Chalcedon Institute, an organization that mandates Christian "dominion" over the world.






Quote:

Danaher-Guardian is owned by billionaire brothers Steven M. and Mitchell P. Rales, who were described by columnist Jack Anderson in 1988 as "a pair of corporate raiders out of Washington DC." 




Shocking! :ooo:


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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: Electronic voting and Bush [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2411685 - 03/09/04 07:03 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

will you post something on topic or are we going
to have to continue to wade needlessly through
another one of your diatribes?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Electronic voting and Bush [Re: mabus]
    #2411779 - 03/09/04 07:49 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

This is incredible. Complete and incontrovertible evidence of an Illuminati plot. Goddammit, they're everywhere.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
addict
Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 470
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Electronic voting and Bush [Re: afoaf]
    #2411832 - 03/09/04 08:02 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
will you post something on topic or are we going
to have to continue to wade needlessly through
another one of your diatribes?




My question here, if Bush doesn't win the election, will the moron's stop whining about a conspiracy? I almost hope he wins so I can send one unit of urine (for drinking purposes) to every libbie that thinks it's a massive conspiracy.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Electronic voting and Bush [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2411853 - 03/09/04 08:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

great, another one.

ignore the partisanship and focus on the facts.

do you really think that black box voting, with
zero audit capabilities and no paper trail is
good for a voting republic?

yes or no.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Electronic voting and Bush [Re: afoaf]
    #2411877 - 03/09/04 08:11 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
do you really think that black box voting, with
zero audit capabilities and no paper trail is
good for a voting republic?

yes or no.



It's good for a voting republican.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Electronic voting and Bush [Re: TheOneYouKnow]
    #2411954 - 03/09/04 08:40 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

do you really think that black box voting, with
zero audit capabilities and no paper trail is
good for a voting republic?

yes or no.


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OfflineTheOneYouKnow
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Registered: 01/04/04
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Re: Electronic voting and Bush [Re: afoaf]
    #2420221 - 03/11/04 07:45 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
do you really think that black box voting, with
zero audit capabilities and no paper trail is
good for a voting republic?

yes or no.




Do I think that the specific scenario you mentioned is good? No.

Do I think that you are possibly misunderstanding (or not being informed and making conclusions anyway) the issue? Possibly. I'm not sure exactly how this voting system will work, what about making it computerized makes it easier to cheat than being on paper?


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