Tmethyl said:

I can't resolve this, seems like a clear contradiction.
But I can't think of any religion that isn't bathing in contradiction or even based entirely upon it.

Refer to direct experience rather than man-made belief systems.
Not one person knows, and not one ever has.

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falcon said:

I think Hindus believe you can overcome your fate through fierce asceticism. That this loophole is available to anyone, god, demon or person is what IMO makes Hindu mythology interesting.

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falcon said:

I don't think it's complete fatalism. Actions influence a beings life in the future, there is no escape from the consequences of past actions, but every action made in the present adds to a beings fate.

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Quote:

Freewill is one of the fundamental principles of Hinduism. In fact, the individual is defined as the container of the freewill. The body and mind are instruments of this individual (called Jiva) to manifest its freewill. Whenever the jiva (using its freewill) decides on a course of action, a part of the action is one of the two contributors to the current result and a part of it accumulates to a store of the effects of past actions. This store is solely responsible for the situations that the jiva faces in life. This store is the other contributor to the current result. The store can be considered as the current state of the jiva. The freewill can be considered as the input and the result can be considered as the output. So, the input results in a state change and an output. Then the jiva makes another decision (input) on the new state. This results in a state change and an output. This goes on in an endless cycle. This is a steady-state model. This model cannot explain when and how this cycle started. This model cannot explain when and how this cycle will end also. But it very satisfactorily answers the current condition and the dynamics of the world and the individual. Birth and death are mere events within this cycle. The jiva’s existence runs across innumerable births and deaths. So differences in birth and death are easily explained. This model puts the complete responsibility of the situation and the action in the hands of the individual. You cannot get more anti-fatalistic than this. This is the model that Hinduism sticks to.

http://practicalphilosophy.in/2011/09/09/hinduism-and-fatalism/

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So this guy claims that Hinduism is in fact not fatalistic in principle. I guess the stuff I read about the unchangeable world and the illusion that the self makes decisions should be glossed over.

MarkostheGnostic said:

It is a rare thing to feel the same way on Monday morning as one typically feels on Friday afternoon.

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laughingdog said:

nice Markos 

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DividedQuantum said:

Fascinating insight, thank you for sharing.

Your post reminds me of the book The Self-Aware Universe by Dr. Amit Goswami. He brings up similar ideas.

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Thanks for the comparison, I have/read that book.

DividedQuantum said:

It seems to me that there is a bizarre contradiction at the heart of Hindu philosophy. On the one hand, they are hardcore fatalists, believing that one cannot change the world, and that free will is an illusion. But on the other hand, at the same time, with respect to their system of karma, they believe that everyone is ultimately and totally responsible for their actions, especially those involving right action and morality. These actions, not up to God but up to the individual only, determine the future course of one's soul. So... they are hardcore fatalists who believe in freely willed behavior. Right? What gives?

Can someone resolve this for me?

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