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InvisibleKurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
Humor
    #23361091 - 06/19/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quick one...

What is this intersection, or roundabout maybe of what we can consider our values? In comedy we see our values precede and proceed through conceptions, or even whether a statement is true or not in a different way. Humor is something that seems to go through this circuit.

I have noticed, and can appreciate that George Carlin is a kind of a philosopher. You can see that the way comedy works is similar to philosophy when he speaks (even though in final consideration, people will level it to "social or cultural criticism"- ie. politics). It is the same loop.

How about Bill Hicks?

Joe Rogan is a comedian who is pretty interesting to hear talk about society and culture, and DMT, on his podcast. I used to listen. He is good at interviewing and engaging people, in a light way that opens them up, but not superficially.

What is Louis CK doing? This is not a commentary on values. It is (as he put it), at best, "getting paid to be an asshole" basically. Oh brother Socrates, gadfly on thy shit, is that you? 

I think either Trey Stone or Matt Parker has a philosophical degree, but with them I forget who is who. But I don't think they are doing politics on South Park - they are lampooning everyone as much as they can.

...

What is humor, and how does it relate to philosophy? What is "it", when someone finds something and keeps getting at it, till the whole house is upside down?

Back in the day they said it a relation between one's temperament and some "stuff" inside you. Humor is also light though, effervescent, just as much. Well it seems to be something in this feeling of momentum of the roundabout, in the gut, in the intersection and the cutting knives of life..

So here is another one, about what we say and the way we say it, and the way we find it. I am no comedian, but maybe just crazy to ask... what is humor?



Edited by Kurt (06/19/16 04:16 PM)


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InvisibleKurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
Re: Humor [Re: Kurt]
    #23361106 - 06/19/16 03:14 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Bill Hicks "It's a ride"



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InvisibleKurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
Re: Humor [Re: Kurt]
    #23361112 - 06/19/16 03:17 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I had heard this song so many times, and maybe I never thought too much about it when I heard Jimi Hendrix's take.

Quote:


"There must be some way out of here" said the joker to the thief
"There's too much confusion", I can't get no relief
Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth
None of them along the line know what any of it is worth.

"No reason to get excited", the thief he kindly spoke
"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late".

(All Along the Watchtower...)
- Bob Dylan




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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Humor [Re: Kurt] * 1
    #23361120 - 06/19/16 03:21 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Comedians are the modern truth tellers. And they are the only ones who can get away with telling the truth.

I like Bill Hicks because behind his words was a real love of humanity and truth and justice. He wasn't laugh out loud hilarious but he was real and he was cool :cheers:


--------------------


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Humor [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #23362689 - 06/20/16 02:51 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting questions.

One of the comedians who never failed to get me crying tears with laughter was Joan Rivers. Yes, in a way her humour was cruel, because she lambasted people, but usually the people she did it to were such egos that maybe they desrved it. But the bottom line was she was funny and made me alugh.

However, the laughter stopped when I saw a video clip where she was seriously saying that the Palestinian peoples, men women and children 'deserved what they got' after Israel attacking them maiming and killing them. This is when my anger came out and I tweeted her showing her what she said was wrong, and showing her stuff. Not that long after I heard she had died. I felt this weird mixed emotion--sadness losing someone who had so made me lugh, and yet also thinking she deserved to die after being SO heartless about such a truly terrible REAL horror committed against other human beings!

Another comedian has me crying with laughter is Paul Moony



But aside from all that your question is 'what is humor'?

I would say your best teacher into this would be the magic mushrooms! IE when you giggle on shrooms do not suppress it. Why are we giggling? because we are seeing in-between things. Body language, word-puns, pretentiousness, behind pompous masks, the real, the truth behind things. But ALSO we--and this is my experience--are seeing that 'serious' and 'jovial' form a dynamic. You can be both ambiguously


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Invisiblemt cleverest
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Re: Humor [Re: Kurt]
    #23363364 - 06/20/16 09:59 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)



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InvisibleKitch
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Re: Humor [Re: mt cleverest]
    #23363409 - 06/20/16 10:19 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I'm on team Bill Burr.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Humor [Re: Kurt]
    #23363622 - 06/20/16 11:47 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)



Funny? Funny, how?


--------------------


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InvisibleKitch
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Re: Humor [Re: Kurt]
    #23363701 - 06/20/16 12:17 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

^ That amused me.

Quote:

Kurt said:
What is "it", when someone finds something and keeps getting at it, till the whole house is upside down?





Comedy is an art form. There is so much to it, to being able to make a whole audience laugh.

Content, delivery, stage presence, the ability to handle hecklers, do it in front of a large audiences, what to do if no one laughs etc etc are all part of it.

Some people just have "it." That ability to string all these things together and make multiple people laugh at once.

I just went to my first arena comedy show and it is pretty incredible when thousands of people are all laughing at once.

Thank God for humor..


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Humor [Re: mt cleverest]
    #23363727 - 06/20/16 12:36 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I really enjoyed the video where he is talking about humour. Humour is strange, and even though I do have a sense of humour, this doesn't mean I cannot judge if I think humour has gone over the top, though i laughed at what that comedian was saying about pedophilia, I was VERY angry one time when the comedian Billy Connolly was doing a stand up and was talking about this guy who was hostage of 'Al-Qaeda' who had threatened to cut his head off (and they eventually did!) and he said to the audeince about all the talking about it and to 'get ON with it!' I was fkin furious, and it really put me off him. When he was approached by some media people about it he was really pissed off and told them to fuck off.

So I can switch. I can on one hand put up with some really wild comedy, but if I feel some comedian has gone too far, for me, I would let them know it


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InvisibleKurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
Re: Humor [Re: mt cleverest]
    #23363748 - 06/20/16 12:43 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Nerdwriter is alright. :thumbup:

He is doing something that is done pretty unconsciously in our popular culture. We all like to read between the lines in our opinionated culture, but he is actually interpreting it.

The gap Evan brings up, between "intent and effect", is something we all dwell on, if only unconsciously, whether it means something simple, like speaking and being heard, or a significant polarity  like for instance between the "intent" of the author, and the "effect" of the content on culture. Which is it? The difference in content could actually be vast, but as much as a difference there may be, a comedian with a microphone, whether as author or someone just shooting the shit, is just going to be direct, and the idea is to be blunt sometimes.

A comedian happens to touch on what is directly relevant to our lives, in a way that is unlike any "author" or writer's "distribution of content". So should we be reading in between the lines or interpreting comedians then? I agree with Evan that we pretty unconsciously read into everything (especially in a  information/consumer driven society), and we can give some leeway to someone just speaking mind. Yeah a standup like Louis CK is just basically talking, and we can see this. He is also someone who thinks alot about his routines though too, and it is his living, so on the other hand, consider that too.

What has on the other hand become a general political issue of political correctness in our culture (without any sense of comedic irony apparently) is a broad issue. Clearly there is no ideal response to our present world of diverse information and interconnectedness. The level of rhetoric, speech intended to impress, in this sense, to me does not bode well at all.

I mean let's talk straight. It is great that we do not have any evangelical Christians running for president this term, (thank you republican party) but since when was the dialogue so anti-intellectual? That was the shift in the party, one thing compensates another. :shrug:

The world is tough, and complicated, and it is what it is. So let's acknowledge that. Nobody knows too well a one dimensional solution to its problems. Some self examination is easy - an appreciation of little Platonic ironies, say. It does not take much time or analysis to think through what is happening in terms of reactions these days. "Why are people so sensitive"? Well why does it seem like the anti-politically correct movement is the group that is raising the big protest, and talking about how people should speak and think? It seems to me that the key difference, is that people who do open up the issue of interpretation of the way we speak to  pay attention and have sensitivity to some relative differences of perspective, have a principle that is not immediately self-ironic. But this of course, is all humor aside.

Idk about the issues nerdwriter raises in final consideration. He says we should bear consideration to both authors intent and effect, in comedy because we are doing this unconsciously anyway. Generally, I think that today we have to start dealing with the sheer fact that the world as "we" see it is based alot on where you stand and there are many aspects to it, and that needs to be opened up, not closed. Comedy may be a player in that. You gotta be tough to do that today, and the joke is getting pretty literal...

Quote:


http://www.vox.com/2016/5/9/11645418/jon-stewart-donald-trump

"I'm not a constitutional scholar, so I can't necessarily say, but are you eligible to run if you are a man-baby or a baby-man? I don't know," Stewart said at an event hosted by the University of Chicago's Institute of Politics on Monday. "But he is a man-baby. He has the physical countenance of a man and a baby's temperament and hands."

"Donald Trump couldn't handle us [The Daily Show] making a joke about him," Stewart said. "Graydon Carter did a joke about Donald Trump's hands 25 years ago. He's still not fucking over it." He added, "The idea being that, Muslims, hey man, all he's saying is they're evil and shouldn't be allowed in this country — he's just telling it like it is. But god forbid you say happy holidays in December; it's fucking war. So who is it who's exactly sensitive here?"




Edited by Kurt (06/20/16 01:52 PM)


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Humor [Re: zzripz]
    #23368635 - 06/21/16 11:09 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
However, the laughter stopped when I saw a video clip where she was seriously saying that the Palestinian peoples, men women and children 'deserved what they got' after Israel attacking them maiming and killing them. This is when my anger came out and I tweeted her showing her what she said was wrong ...





She held an opinion you didn't.    Does that maker her "wrong"?

I'm convinced 99% of human anguish comes from our infatuation with "right and wrong"


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Humor [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23369346 - 06/22/16 08:37 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

zzripz said:
However, the laughter stopped when I saw a video clip where she was seriously saying that the Palestinian peoples, men women and children 'deserved what they got' after Israel attacking them maiming and killing them. This is when my anger came out and I tweeted her showing her what she said was wrong ...





Quote:

She held an opinion you didn't.    Does that maker her "wrong"?




Yes. VERY wrong, and I let her know like I would if someone said raping a child was right!



Quote:

I'm convinced 99% of human anguish comes from our infatuation with "right and wrong"




Every child needs to learn the difference between right and wrong. If you haven't, then I feel sorry for you, and for those around you!


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InvisibleKurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
Re: Humor [Re: zzripz]
    #23369776 - 06/22/16 12:01 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

The reward of laughter never seems to be in what they say is 'good taste'.

Just one of those things.


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InvisibleKurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
Re: Humor [Re: Kurt]
    #23369795 - 06/22/16 12:08 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

It's kind of like philosophy...

People seem to be bored, or offended by it; one or the other. :tongue:


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Humor [Re: zzripz]
    #23371958 - 06/22/16 11:38 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:

Every child needs to learn the difference between right and wrong. If you haven't, then I feel sorry for you, and for those around you!






As you know, this idea of "right and wrong" is the absurd lunacy that plagues human existence.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Humor [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23372292 - 06/23/16 02:52 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

oh. if your determined to believe that, then...we must agree to differ


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InvisibleKurt
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Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
Re: Humor [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23374109 - 06/23/16 03:14 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Good and excellent aim, is natural. It follows we have a term for a miss too. Even humorists know this in their way.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Humor [Re: zzripz]
    #23375732 - 06/24/16 12:24 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
oh. if your determined to believe that, then...we must agree to differ




The ideas of "right" and "wrong" are our tickets to hell.  Front row seats.

To abandon our meaningless ridiculous judgments is so difficult.

We cling to our judgments like an infant to their mother.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Humor [Re: Kurt]
    #23375736 - 06/24/16 12:27 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Kurt said:

Good and excellent aim, is natural. It follows we have a term for a miss too. Even humorists know this in their way.




Good and excellent aim is a product of ego.

We "feel good about our self" when we judge we did well.

The concept of failure helps to solidify this perspective.


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