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Re: If you want legal weed, acknowledge its dangers, and maximize its benefits [Re: TheMovement] * 2
    #23161913 -

I'm pretty sure most of the real, not made up or exaggerated dangers of weed stem from illegal production and distribution methods.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: If you want legal weed, acknowledge its dangers, and maximize its benefits [Re: TheMovement] * 1
    #23162024 -

once again, mainstream marijuana advocates do not say that marijuana is harmless--i don't understand why people keep coming into this thread acting as if pro-pot advocates have never acknowledged that marijuana is not 100% harmless, or that further research wouldn't be immensely beneficial

i am a medical marijuana patient, and have been very involved in the canadian legalization movement for both medicinal and recreational use--i can tell you that anyone who is taken seriously within this community does not go around claiming marijuana as a harmless cure all

nothing can be done about the folks who choose to continue to spout pro-pot misinformation, other than continue to correct them and go about our day; just nothing can be done for those who choose to continue to spout out anti-pot misinformation, other than correct them and go about out day




as for your 100% anecdotal belief, the link between marijuana and psychosis is tenuous and much more study is required before any sound claims can be made--jumping the gun in claiming what the causal relationship between these two complicated elements is, only provides a disservice to folks who could actually benefit from understanding the relationship between psychosis and marijuana

to start, we have both THC and CBD--now, it is true that research has shown that THC can induce psychosis-like effects in otherwise healthy individuals--but! did you also know that CBD has been shown to have antipsychotic properties and that CBD heavy strains may actually provide a promising tool in the treatment of psychosis--especially when one considers that CBD has drastically fewer side effects than traditional antipsychotic medication--Marijuana Compound Treats Schizophrenia with Few Side Effects: Clinical Trial


moving back to THC and it's link to psychosis--three causal models have been proposed:



each of the theories have merit at this time--i recommend you read each link as it provides a good summery of the evidence for and against each causal model


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Re: If you want legal weed, acknowledge its dangers, and maximize its benefits [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #23162051 -

Sophistic Radiance said:
I'm pretty sure most of the real, not made up or exaggerated dangers of weed stem from illegal production and distribution methods.


The studies were trying to show that a lower IQ resulted from marijuana and alcohol use and that the substance was the direct reason for that "result".

The study didn't take into account the substance abusers are also less likely to come from stable environments and are therefore less likely to achieve as well in the academic world. Therefore, it's a flawed conclusion.

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Re: If you want legal weed, acknowledge its dangers, and maximize its benefits [Re: qman]
    #23162118 -

i posted a more recent study that was attempting to replicate some of those original findings but ended up with conflicting results showing no significant difference in brain structure

one sentence in particular jumped out:
Quote:
Groups were matched on a critical confounding variable, alcohol use, to a far greater degree than in previously published studies.


you would think that controlling for alcohol would have been commonsense for those behind the original studies--unless, of course, their source of funding led them to have ulterior motives


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Re: If you want legal weed, acknowledge its dangers, and maximize its benefits [Re: coAsTal]
    #23164058 -

coAsTal said:
Cancer! Cures fucking cancer!!

It's not all pollyanna positive, and it's not sufficient to say "this stuff cures cancer, it's obviously therefore harmless".




Stop telling people it cures cancer. Besides giving sick and dying people false hope it also makes the general population suspicious all medical use is bogus. People who believe weed cured cancer are usually crazy anti vaxer types who like to use the term big pharma a lot. If you get cancer go ask your doctor for advice instead of acting like you know better, because you don't.

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Re: If you want legal weed, acknowledge its dangers, and maximize its benefits [Re: my3rdeye]
    #23164071 -

I agree, evidence that it inhibits tumor cell growth is not the same as curing cancer at all. Mild preventative maybe.

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Re: If you want legal weed, acknowledge its dangers, and maximize its benefits [Re: larry.fisherman] * 2
    #23164118 -

XLCaps said:
I agree, evidence that it inhibits tumor cell growth is not the same as curing cancer at all. Mild preventative maybe.


We see a similar case with nearly all the claims of medical efficacy. Most of the studies and data have severe limitations. People are quick to point out the weaknesses of studies examining links between MJ and psychosis, but ignore the shortcomings of the data showing favorable results.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: If you want legal weed, acknowledge its dangers, and maximize its benefits [Re: badchad] * 1
    #23164167 -

i think that this is partly due to the history of marijuana prohibition and scientific studies that amount to little more than anti-pot propaganda--there is definitely a valid reason for marijuana advocates to be highly suspicious of ulterior motives behind scientific studies


that being said, i once again don't understand why people are continually acting as if marijuana advocates are completely blind to the negative aspects--as was said above, people who tend to believer that marijuana is a cure all, are general holders of many fringe beliefs (such as being anti-vaxxers) or just some dumb kids--they are not typical of your maintstream marijuana advocate

take a look at organizations such as norml if you want to have a better understanding of the postion most advocates who are taken seriously hold




or look at me, i am terribly pro-pot, but without a doubt i have provided the most balanced information on marijuana in this thread


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Re: If you want legal weed, acknowledge its dangers, and maximize its benefits [Re: my3rdeye]
    #23164749 -

my3rdeye said:
coAsTal said:
Cancer! Cures fucking cancer!!

It's not all pollyanna positive, and it's not sufficient to say "this stuff cures cancer, it's obviously therefore harmless".




Stop telling people it cures cancer. Besides giving sick and dying people false hope it also makes the general population suspicious all medical use is bogus. People who believe weed cured cancer are usually crazy anti vaxer types who like to use the term big pharma a lot. If you get cancer go ask your doctor for advice instead of acting like you know better, because you don't.


Brother, I think you've missed my point- the nature of my comment there was to display the Holy Sacrament/Miracle Cure version of some Cannabis advocates-- I understand, as do most here, that there is no magic at play, and there is much work to be done on medicinal uses for cannabinoids-- until we throw millions at the study of the plants we're still talking anecdotal evidence for everything. That doesn't mean there is no evidence that indicates there could be excellent uses for this plant someday.

Another question for those in here:

Do you think all of the conflictory information that seems to follow these studies (regarding harm potential and therapeutic benefit alike) could have to do with the psychology of the individual user?

What I mean is, there is a lot of (underplayed) value in the mindset of the user that may significantly dictate the physical benefits (as well as the negative results) that doesn't appear to be accounted for in controlled physical studies.

Since the thought process/mood of the brain is significantly changed by use, can that element be quantified scientifically to better hone in on who it seems to help/hurt? For example, a depressed, paranoid person can be freaked out on weed, and may nullify potential benefits of the plant, where someone more centered going into it might show changes that help--perhaps *because* they are already more relaxed and at ease.

When dealing with psychoactives, the set/setting is well known to dramatically shift experience, and I wonder that it affects the physiological as well as the emotional effects.

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Re: If you want legal weed, acknowledge its dangers, and maximize its benefits [Re: coAsTal]
    #23164887 -

Man.
I just discovered the cure for EVERYTHING and ANYTHING....

A vegan weed user!!!

:ahahaha:


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Pain is temporary. It may last for a minute or an hour or a day or even a year but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it will last forever.

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Re: If you want legal weed, acknowledge its dangers, and maximize its benefits [Re: coAsTal] * 1
    #23165032 -

coAsTal said:
Do you think all of the conflictory information that seems to follow these studies (regarding harm potential and therapeutic benefit alike) could have to do with the psychology of the individual user?

What I mean is, there is a lot of (underplayed) value in the mindset of the user that may significantly dictate the physical benefits (as well as the negative results) that doesn't appear to be accounted for in controlled physical studies.
.


Of course there is. Due to ethical constraints, nearly every study of the beneficial effects of MJ is done in MJ users. So the reality of the study results is that you get a bunch of pot lovers, bring them into the lab and ask them: "did the pot help you?" The responding bias is huge.

In addition, there are huge challenges in blinding the effects of inhaled drugs. Effectively, none of the studies are placebo controlled, which is the gold standard.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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