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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #22542475 -

Thanatos10 said:
I hear people go on and on about compassion being one of humanity's strengths but I personally find it to be a weakness. I really don't see the strength aspect of it. Seeing people crumble when horrors happen or weak at others suffering. Giving a damn about the suffering of others seems to be more of a liability than an asset. It's a trait that can be easily exploited to crush people or bend them to your will.


You're just a little too full of beans right now. Life will kick some of that out of you by and by.


--------------------
My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said.

Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking.
Saul Bellow

“People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing

Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P.  Silocybin

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #22542481 -

Thanatos10 said:
If you see strength I say you're delusional.


I probably am. But at least I'm happy. Compassion brings me joy. Strength makes me feel secure. On the other hand, it seems to terrify you.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: White Beard]
    #22542498 -

White Beard said:
yeah. you might find an injured man on the side of the road, take him back to your house, heal him up, feed him, then he turns out to be a serial killer and murders you. You were still compassionate towards him regarding his injury but ignorant about him being a serial killer.




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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22542576 -

Apparently you seek to devolve in sub-human mammalian life,where survival is trumped only by the power motive. But correct me if I'm misreading this.  There seems to be compassion evidenced by non-human animals (e.g., an elk saves a drowning marmot, a bottlenose dolphin saves a drowning seal, a hippopotamus manipulates and breathes on a drowned impala, a dog pining away on his master's grave. I'm not even putting out a feline nurturing a baby primate after killing its mother as such events are usually reduced to some aberration of an otherwise species-bound maternal instinct.

Survival is a first chakra, rudimentary, deterministic organismic response to profound bodily harm, but there are those individuals who transcend their natural mammalian instinct for self-preservation and give their life for others - even strangers. There are higher motives than that for biological survival and those who can cultivate such motive-energies (variously named) are transcendental human beings who have risen above the egoic-mind's selfish urge to survive at all costs. I can't imagine how much fine literature has been written to glorify in fiction as well as in fact, those who can put others before themselves. There are those, like firefighters, who risk terrible death to save humans and animals, not only those who would step on a floored person to save himself. :rolleyes: The human species needs more altruism and compassion for its survival, not more pathological narcissism and psychopathy.

"You're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem." - Eldridge Cleaver


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22542609 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
There are those, like firefighters, who risk terrible death to save humans and animals, not only those who would step on a floored person to save himself. :rolleyes: The human species needs more altruism and compassion for its survival, not more pathological narcissism and psychopathy.

"You're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem." - Eldridge Cleaver


Really well said man. I always wanted to be a firefighter. It's a sad truth that those who do the most work in looking after us are so underpaid for what they do, else I would be doing that right now, rather than being a corporate rescuer of money, rather than life.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #22542649 -

Too much compassion will get you raped.

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22542697 -

So, you'll be doing free therapy from now on?


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22542706 -

Jokeshopbeard said:
Thanatos10 said:
If you see strength I say you're delusional.


I probably am. But at least I'm happy. Compassion brings me joy. Strength makes me feel secure. On the other hand, it seems to terrify you.


I have strength. Compassion brought me nothing but misery and sadness. My life got much better the moment I started giving less of a damn about other people.
MarkostheGnostic said:
Apparently you seek to devolve in sub-human mammalian life,where survival is trumped only by the power motive. But correct me if I'm misreading this.  There seems to be compassion evidenced by non-human animals (e.g., an elk saves a drowning marmot, a bottlenose dolphin saves a drowning seal, a hippopotamus manipulates and breathes on a drowned impala, a dog pining away on his master's grave. I'm not even putting out a feline nurturing a baby primate after killing its mother as such events are usually reduced to some aberration of an otherwise species-bound maternal instinct.

Survival is a first chakra, rudimentary, deterministic organismic response to profound bodily harm, but there are those individuals who transcend their natural mammalian instinct for self-preservation and give their life for others - even strangers. There are higher motives than that for biological survival and those who can cultivate such motive-energies (variously named) are transcendental human beings who have risen above the egoic-mind's selfish urge to survive at all costs. I can't imagine how much fine literature has been written to glorify in fiction as well as in fact, those who can put others before themselves. There are those, like firefighters, who risk terrible death to save humans and animals, not only those who would step on a floored person to save himself. :rolleyes: The human species needs more altruism and compassion for its survival, not more pathological narcissism and psychopathy.

"You're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem." - Eldridge Cleaver


It's what appears to humans to be compassion. But there is no real way to determine whether or not it's true. Also that doesn't prove compassion is a strength. You make it sound like a failsafe against our own stupidity. It's kind of pathetic really.

Compassion is a luxury. In our present state we can afford to give a damn about others. But when resources become scarce you'll see how fast that gets thrown out the window.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.

Edited by Thanatos10 (11/18/15 06:25 PM)

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22542718 -

God damn it, we are going to make you compassionate if we have to beat it into you!


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #22542780 -

Compassion literally means shared pain...


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

To shrink a person's vocabulary is to shrink their capacity to think.

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: Rahz] * 2
    #22542794 -

Rahz said:
Compassion literally means shared pain...


Sounds like a BDSM thing.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22542918 -

Thanatos10 said:
I hear people go on and on about compassion being one of humanity's strengths but I personally find it to be a weakness. I really don't see the strength aspect of it. Seeing people crumble when horrors happen or weak at others suffering. Giving a damn about the suffering of others seems to be more of a liability than an asset. It's a trait that can be easily exploited to crush people or bend them to your will.


compassion is frequently associated with Buddhism
Why?
Because like at the peak of a psychedelic experience-it is based on the notion that-'the feeling of being a separate self' is an illusion...
hence compassion for others is not just---kindness to others---there is no such thing as an other
of course this sounds crazy---till you trip--
or consider that physics and chemistry tell us we are 90% space and made out of atoms, and matter is energy...
so truth is not common sense...
so compassion is a practice for those who want to break thru illusion
by doing that which is not self-ish.
the unconscious habit of being self-ish is thus weakened.
that's an aspect of the theory, of Buddhist practice, as I understand it at this time

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22543088 -

I don't see compassion as a luxury. Otherwise I should be feeling much more luxurious. Haha

I try to be as compassionate as I can for strangers and friends alike. Although I can see what you mean about it appearing like a weakness. In my experience I have been taken advantage of alot for it. Although it was mainly bc I was being naive about the situation. I ended up putting others first before myself. Often to an extreme. And there needs to be a balance. But I don't regret it. It's not my fault others see it as a weakness. It was only my fault if I let it become my problem when it shouldn't have been.

Many times even people who go into a service that should hold a level of compassion for others end up being douches. So I don't know how the job dictates who is compassionate....

Although OP... what weaknesses do you see in people who have been compassionate? What were they doing? Basically being a doormat or just being a good guy? We're they going out of their way to be nice and offer sympathy to someone? Did they revolve the others persons problems into their daily life causing themselves anxiety?


--------------------


:heartpump::heartpump: :heartpump::heartpump:

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: pachoo]
    #22543157 -

pachoo said:
Although OP... what weaknesses do you see in people who have been compassionate? What were they doing? Basically being a doormat or just being a good guy? We're they going out of their way to be nice and offer sympathy to someone? Did they revolve the others persons problems into their daily life causing themselves anxiety?


Great questions pachoo, I'd very much like to hear OP's response to these.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22543286 -

In short the costs don't outweigh the supposed benefits for it. The reason people are motivated to action is because it creates anxiety within us to see suffering. Since it makes us uncomfortable we try to ease it through action. But given societal pressure one doesn't just walk away from it so one is inclined to do something about it to save face and relieve stress. There is minimal benefit to getting involved. Whereas walking alway saves time and resources that could be used elsewhere.

It's weakness in how easily your actions are dictated by it, it makes one predictable. It quickly leads to be used if the person is smart enough. It also explains why being called heartless has such a negative effect on these people.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22543344 -

i think from a collective standpoint rather than purely an individualistic one, there are many benefits from compassion. that is, a culture saturated with compassionate people i think would be more successful than one lacking compassion. and this benefit would then necessarily expand to each individual in that culture. so it may take a shift from a purely individualized perspective to a more collective perspective to see the benefit.

that said, even on an individual level, i find that compassion can be a source of happiness, and supply meaning for one's life. in buddhism, compassion is not effective when it's divorced from wisdom, the two must be combined to be truly beneficial (the analogy given is that of two wings being required by a bird to take flight). this wisdom would prevent one's compassion from causing harm inadvertently, both to the recipient of compassion and to the person practicing the compassion.


--------------------


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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: deff]
    #22543451 -

Except compassion is about the self. If understanding the suffering of another was not painful, it would not give you any reason to alleviate the suffering. It's about easing the negative stimulus. As for meaning, it only gives it if you believe it does. It really makes no difference since suffering is always going to exist.

Regardless of what perspective you take you can't ignore that it's really about relieving your pain by relieving theirs. I go be to saying that it's a luxury because we can afford it right now. When times get hard and there isn't enough to go around, you'll see how fast people change their tune.

You keep speaking of benefits but fail to mention any. Compassion, as far as I see it, is irrational.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22543480 -

Man, Thantos, you got it so wrong brother. Please don't be so quick to assume you know what goes on in other peoples heads. Look, I'll explain:

Thanatos10 said:
The reason people are motivated to action is because it creates anxiety within us to see suffering. Since it makes us uncomfortable we try to ease it through action.


No. I am motivated to action for what I believe are very selfish reasons, but they certainly have nothing to do with me feeling anxiety. I'm the kind of person that feels anxiety at best, once a year. It's a very unfamiliar emotion to me. What I do see, however, is people fighting the same hard battle I am. This, in turn makes me feel empathy, which, when I nurture it, grows into compassion. They're pretty similar emotions from what I can tell, and much more likely to come to the fore when with someone I feel is a 'good' human being. Someone who's trying, I guess.

Thanatos10 said:
But given societal pressure one doesn't just walk away from it so one is inclined to do something about it to save face and relieve stress. There is minimal benefit to getting involved. Whereas walking alway saves time and resources that could be used elsewhere.


Again, no. I've absolutely zero interest in 'saving face'. Like ever. I've not given a fuck what anybody, or society thinks of me in most of my adult years. In fact I actively reject societies judgements. I am also not stressed when I see someone in need of help - I work my best under pressure (hence the line of work I'm in - banking mission critical IT systems), and indeed thrive on it. Hence, when I need to spring to action, I am [almost] consistently as calm as a cucumber.

And as for benefit for getting involved! AARRARRARARAG. How can you not see this man you're a fucking human!! I get a big fuck off dose of feel good chemicals dumped into my brain and I feel good. Spiritually good. Fuck yeah it's a selfish reason but I get the most I've ever got out of any non-extraneous-drug experience in my life through showing kindness and compassion to my fellow humans.

Thanatos10 said:
It's weakness in how easily your actions are dictated by it, it makes one predictable. It quickly leads to be used if the person is smart enough. It also explains why being called heartless has such a negative effect on these people.


Yeah, maybe for you. I had to learn to be tough in the environment I grew up in. I got bullied once (as in a single time) and vowed it would never happen again. It never did. I've had someone use me all of about twice in my life. Sure, there are people that can persuade me into false beliefs, but that's never done me a great harm - it only takes a while for me to re-asses and correct my views.

Come on man. Stop tarring the whole fucking human race with the same brush will you? It's incredibly short sighted and a touch annoying. Ever noticed how most people in your threads seem to disagree with you?

There's good reason for that.

I'm not saying pay attention to what everyone believes, most people buy into horseshit. But you're in a place where the true thinkers gather here. Maybe, just maybe, general consensus round here is a little worth giving a bit more consideration?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22543497 -

Jokeshopbeard said:
Thanatos10 said:
If you see strength I say you're delusional.


I probably am. But at least I'm happy. Compassion brings me joy. Strength makes me feel secure. On the other hand, it seems to terrify you.


Ditto. Yep my world and headspace are places of my design and I like em. I would rather be a soft touch than an asshole.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.

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Re: Is compassion weakness? [Re: Thanatos10] * 2
    #22543504 -

Thanatos10 said:
I hear people go on and on about compassion being one of humanity's strengths but I personally find it to be a weakness. I really don't see the strength aspect of it. Seeing people crumble when horrors happen or weak at others suffering. Giving a damn about the suffering of others seems to be more of a liability than an asset. It's a trait that can be easily exploited to crush people or bend them to your will.




sounds like something a sociopath would say.

Im compassionate with a heart of stone.  Perfect balance.


--------------------
When telling the truth becomes an act of treason, and society chooses delusion and deception over fundamental reality, you've been invaded and infiltrated by other beings that have now integrated into your country and community.  Bless our reptile overlords who control, harvest, and eat us.

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