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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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I am playing with Google translate
    #22138274 -

and my thoughts are starting confound me; what are some cool transliterations and phrases to toy around with? anyone?

eg. Morning Star. it means Lucifer in Latin. why that is so cool to me... it is because of the transliteration - say you put it in Greek "Morning Star", you get "Αυγερινός". but you put in "Lucifer", you get "Εωσφόρος".


WTF is the difference here? i mean both Morning Star and Lucifer (ya know, the guy downstairs, right?) are the same thing in Latin, but in Greek it is clearly different, and i'm wondering what do both words in the Greek mean separately? in what way would they be used? in what phraseology?

language is awesome and it confounds me.

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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22138281 -

Well, classical Latin was influenced by earlier Greek you see.

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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: Le_Canard]
    #22138284 -

i always thought lucifer translated to light-bringer. but i dunno shit about these things :shrug: i probably heard it watching ancient aliens or some shit

Edited by Adolin (08/25/15 02:09 AM)

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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: Le_Canard]
    #22138289 -

yes, exactly! i know that much (even some parts of Greek can be found in  Hebrew, if i remember correctly).

but i am dying to know if there is a difference here in meaning between say Αυγερινός and Εωσφόρος?

i have a long way to go understand my language, let alone another...but i am enamored with the concept of etymology.

me and my endless hours of hope.

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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: Adolin]
    #22138290 -

I think it does. I was reading about that the other day but I'm too stone to recall right now. Sorry. But a quick Google search will inform you.

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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22138293 -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus_%28morning_star%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesperus

Venus is both the morning star and the evening star. It probably has something to do with that. I don't think google translate is the most trustworthy translation source.


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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: Adolin]
    #22138305 -

Gresh said:
i always thought lucifer translated to light-bringer. but i dunno shit about these things :shrug: i probably heard it watching ancient aliens or some shit


close. it's light bearer, i believe.

but the name Lucifer means Morning Star and...also Light Bearer? because bearer in Latin is Signifer - close etymologically to "Lucifer; and light or "lux" has alot of different connotations to many things, and then you put them together like "lux signifer" and you get "light bearer", not "morning star" or "Lucifer".

WHY?

do i have to like brush up for many years to understand what the fuck is going on here? :confused:

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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22138310 -

clock_of_omens said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus_%28morning_star%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesperus

Venus is both the morning star and the evening star. It probably has something to do with that. I don't think google translate is the most trustworthy translation source.


no, certainly not. but it must at least be close a good percent of the time, plus these are relatively easy translations, no?

PS: that's cool about Venus being both morning and evening star. i was screwing around with "born and dead now", which is in itself a confounding sentence.

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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22138325 -

this shit makes me feel like an idiot.

:smugjerry:

so if anyone can think of more cool shit to try out, i'd appreciate your response.

ie look at this: He as in Hebrew (ה) is also short form for God, in some manner of speaking.

"He is often used to represent the name of God, as He stands for Hashem, which means The Name and is a way of saying God without actually saying the name of God. In print, Hashem is usually written as He with a geresh: ה׳." -wiki

no wonder the anthropomorphic English deity exists as a Him.

i will die not knowing much of this stuff, how sad.

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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22138335 -

akira_akuma said:
no, certainly not. but it must at least be close a good percent of the time, plus these are relatively easy translations, no?



Probably, but translating through a few languages is already going to bring up problems. Languages a lot of times have more than one word with the same meanings, and taking that through a few languages is just going to get mired in insanity. Lucifer means morning star which refers to Venus, so they probably have a separate word for Venus, then evening star also refers to Venus, but Lucifer doesn't refer to evening star. It's crazy stuff.


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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22138347 -

i know. i know it's crazy, it fucking blows my mind.

like this :mindblown:

i am going to learn a fucking easy language like French, which is already cool, but it's like not even as cool. Spanish and French and Italian are all so...different, but...but similar and less complex between the three, the differences they have.

i wanna learn some of the old school...Latin...Greek...Indian languages. but i never will, i'll be all like :braindamage:

never in a million years... damn you Brain, you idiot! FUUUUUUUU--

Question: when you're fluent in Latin, and you use Morning Star and Lucifer and Venus interchangeably, wtf do you get?

see: Venus the Morning Star is Venus matutinus or "early/morning Venus" but then you start to explain this shit vis-à-vis from the beginning of the sentence onwards, "Venus the Morning Star, is..." and you get "Venus Luciferi est" "est" meaning a bunch of different crazy-shit... but also without the punctuation, it's just "Venus est matutinus" or Venus is early.

there's gotta be a better way. :curbyourenthusiasm:

Edited by akira_akuma (08/25/15 02:44 AM)

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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22138367 -

Yeah language is :feelsweirdman:

French, Spanish and Italian are all romance languages descended from Latin, so they are relatively similar.

I would like to learn ancient Greek as well, reading all the philosophy and literature in the original language would be sweet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus#Early_studies

It says here that Lucifer refers to the morning aspect of Venus. So that would be the morning star part. The planet itself on the other hand would just be Venus named after the Roman godess. So they have different words for the same object only with slightly different meanings. Then when you try translating those subtly different words into other languages that themselves have words with subtle shades of meaning, you just end up all over the place.


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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22138378 -

reading not only the old school but Greek has gotten a major resurgence in modern literature! i'd love to read some of the new crazy Greek novels that are coming out...you know, in Greek! not the translations which by all means must be brutal to attempt to achieve.

Quote:
It says here that Lucifer refers to the morning aspect of Venus. So that would be the morning star part. The planet itself on the other hand would just be Venus named after the Roman godess. So they have different words for the same object only with slightly different meanings.


you know what i'd love to do? i'd love to concoct a fluent sentence involving all those aspects of Venus. literally all of them...is it even possible without becoming convoluted?

also of course i'd love to know how accurate this translator is, to some extent. :tongue:

"Veneris stellam matutinam titiae illuminatrix Lucifer" or "Venus is the morning star, Lucifer the Light-Bearer."

is that even correct? and more importantly...would any speaker of Latin even utter such a thing?

or would "Lucifer signifer Veneris stella matutina lux" or "Lucifer the Light-Bearer is Venus the morning star" be more apt?

lets just say if some one, in Latin, was trying to explain this shit to me...that person would say something akin to that, right?

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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22138387 -

"Lucifer matutinus illuminatrix Venus Genetrix" or "Lucifer the Light-Bearer is Venus the Morning Star." i forgot to capitalize "Morning Star", it's a name afterall... so when you do that, you get the above..."Genetrix" means "Mother".

obviously there is some mythology going on here.

but why the sudden change? and does it mean anything? i mean Morning Star is either Lucifer (Light Bearer) or Mother!1 which one Latin!?

or maybe "the Light-Bearer is Venus, Lucifer the Morning Star" or "Venus Genetrix illuminatrix Lucifer stellam matutinam".

fuck, no wonder religious people are fucked in the head.

LOL

personally, i think Religion would be more aptly called Relegion; but of course that's probably just me not knowing shit.

نجم الصباح or Morning Star

holy Q i am starting to sound insane even to myself. :puddingpop:

Edited by akira_akuma (08/25/15 03:06 AM)

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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22138397 -

But then ancient Greek is different than modern Greek, so you would almost have to learn two languages.

Haha I have no idea. For a long time, they didn't even know that the morning star and the evening star were the same thing, so I guess it depends on what time period this hypothetical Latin speaker comes from.

:whippedcreamhead:


akira_akuma said:
fuck, no wonder religious people are fucked in the head.

LOL

personally, i think Religion would be more aptly called Relegion; but of course that's probably just me not knowing shit.


Haha right. The books have only been translated through multiple languages over centuries and arranged by randoms. Basing your whole life around that sounds like an amazing idea.


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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22138403 -

Quote:
For a long time, they didn't even know that the morning star and the evening star were the same thing, so I guess it depends on what time period this hypothetical Latin speaker comes from.


WTF are you saying man!?

how didn't they know that 'ish? it's their friggin' language!

Quote:
But then ancient Greek is different than modern Greek, so you would almost have to learn two languages.


true for any language, but then again that's what the linguistics is for, right? determining from various sources in history what means what and when it meant so.

i suck at math, so this is like my infinitely complex puzzle. it will be the force that drives me, and that drives me insane. until i have kids, then all bets are off on that.

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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22138434 -

akira_akuma said:
how didn't they know that 'ish? it's their friggin' language!


Haha ancient civilizations thought that they were two separate stars, although by the time the roman civilization came around I think they knew it was just Venus and named the different aspects differently based on the Greek. So I bet the Romans could make a coherent sentence out of all of it. What if an ancient Roman came to our time and tried to make a coherent sentence out of this shit in English using google translate? How ridiculous would it sound to us?

Quote:
true for any language, but then again that's what the linguistics is for, right? determining from various sources in history what means what and when it meant so.

i suck at math, so this is like my infinitely complex puzzle. it will be the force that drives me, and that drives me insane. until i have kids, then all bets are off on that.


Indeed. Being a translator of ancient texts would be an insane profession.

Haha no one needs kids. That's time you could devote to becoming the language master of the universe.


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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22138454 -

oh but i need to join the club. my loins are speaking an entire different language, and i know what girls want...BABIES! :crankey: (how inherently orthodox is that thinking....:lol:)

"Sígoura oi Ro̱maíoi tha boroúse na kánei mia synektikí̱ prótasi̱ apó ólo af̱tó . Ti tha symveí an éna archaío ro̱maïkó í̱rthe gia ti̱n epochí̱ mas kai prospáthi̱se na kánei mia synektikí̱ prótasi̱ apó af̱tí̱ ti̱ malakía se anglikí̱ metáfrasi̱ ? Póso geloío tha akoúgetai se emás ?"

yeah, the translator bot lady sounds like she's stifling laughter at the end of that translation, so i dunno if they'd appreciate our drifting language proper.

dude, i want some Πράσινο Πράσο Σούπα με Πατάτες.





Edited by akira_akuma (08/25/15 03:47 AM)

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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22138470 -

If I ever have a baby, I'm going to force it to study nothing but languages non stop forever.

There are too many damn words in English, they wouldn't even know what was going on.


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Re: I am playing with Google translate [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22138482 -

Chthonic thanatotic Abulia.

can this even be imagined? i think i've got it....


"i am so over this!"

or

"Χθόνια Θάνατος αβουλία!"

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Community > The Pub
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