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clam_dude
stranger in astrange land

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Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization
#22123381 - 08/21/15 04:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Greenpeace's anti-gmo stance is evil, antiscientific, and doing bad things for the future of humanity. I have heard a lot of talk recently about the evils of Monsanto. But the more I look into it, the more I find that these rumors are mostly conspiracy theory bs, and that greenpeace are in fact the evil ones. At this point, being anti-gmo is about equivalent to denying climate change. And poor, malnourished people in developing countries are paying the price for the prevalence of pseudoscientific nonsense here in the west. Anyone agree?
-------------------- "I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: clam_dude]
#22123872 - 08/21/15 06:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think you're going too far to call it evil. I agree that being anti-GMO is ignoring the overwhelming scientific knowledge on the subject. GMOs are one of the most marvellous tools we have, but being against them does not make you evil.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: clam_dude]
#22123921 - 08/21/15 06:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think Monsanto has undue influence in laws that govern GMOs. Although I don't think GMOs are dangerous, I also don't think they should be given patents that gives them sole discretion on what can be done with a GMO organism or that people that developed them should have proprietary rights once they've sold the product to anyone.
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BoldAsLove
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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: falcon]
#22124002 - 08/21/15 07:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Why shouldn't you be able to patent a GMO? If you spend large amounts of money and years developing something why shouldn't you be allowed to capitalize on it? Where is the incentive for that kind of investment if you can't patent?
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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falcon



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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: BoldAsLove]
#22124031 - 08/21/15 07:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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There isn't any. But I don't think the crafting is a big expense, it's the testing. I'm not convinced that it's in the best interest of any one nation to defend this as property.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: falcon]
#22124111 - 08/21/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I disagree on your last couple of sentences anyway.
GMOs are used heavily in other parts of the world. The fact that there's a lot of unscientific opinions here in the west about GMOs really isn't hurting the industry.
There's some amazing shit happening with GMOd rice by the way. Drought tolerance and all sorts of cool stuff
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
Edited by paperbackwriter (08/21/15 07:45 PM)
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Stonehenge
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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: paperbackwriter] 1
#22124223 - 08/21/15 08:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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GMO's are frankenstien food and some day humanity will pay the price for this abomination. Green peace goes too far sometimes but they are right about this matter.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: Stonehenge]
#22124236 - 08/21/15 08:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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You're joking right?
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Stonehenge
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Posts: 14,850
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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22124323 - 08/21/15 08:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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You haven't been following my posts very well to say that. Read the why we should label gmo thread and you will see all the studies showing gmo is bad, showing roundup is toxic and carcinogenic, etc. Plus the fact they don't produce much bigger yields and yields are dropping from them rapidly.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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falcon



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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22124343 - 08/21/15 08:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm not seeing how you're disagreeing with me, I haven't said anything about the science.
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clam_dude
stranger in astrange land

Registered: 09/10/03
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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: BoldAsLove]
#22124676 - 08/21/15 09:44 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
BoldAsLove said: I think you're going too far to call it evil. I agree that being anti-GMO is ignoring the overwhelming scientific knowledge on the subject. GMOs are one of the most marvellous tools we have, but being against them does not make you evil.
Well it's true, just being against GMOs is one thing. But as an example of the harm Greenpeace has done - there is a small ngo in the Philippines that was trying to produce a variety of the golden rice with the added vitamin A, which the farmers could replant each year. This is in contrast to the corporation which was previously trying to do this but realized that there was no profit incentive since the government wanted re-plantable seeds to fit the needs of poor farmers. So the ngo took over, with a solely humanitarian mission.
Greenpeace organized a protest in which they trampled the testing fields. This goes far beyond simply criticizing the corporate interests involved with GMOs. GMOs have also been banned in almost every nation in Africa, due to paranoia and lack of scientific understanding in the west. Greenpeace plays a large role in this. Crops which could potentially help feed millions of starving people are entirely banned. Pseudoscience seems harmless, until it isn't
-------------------- "I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais
Edited by clam_dude (08/21/15 09:44 PM)
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clam_dude
stranger in astrange land

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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22124724 - 08/21/15 09:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: I disagree on your last couple of sentences anyway.
GMOs are used heavily in other parts of the world. The fact that there's a lot of unscientific opinions here in the west about GMOs really isn't hurting the industry.
There's some amazing shit happening with GMOd rice by the way. Drought tolerance and all sorts of cool stuff 
Yes, and while this rice has been developed, almost the entire continent of Africa has banned it, as well as India - because of scare tactics used by the likes of Greenpeace.
-------------------- "I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: clam_dude]
#22124964 - 08/21/15 11:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
clam_dude said:
Quote:
BoldAsLove said: I think you're going too far to call it evil. I agree that being anti-GMO is ignoring the overwhelming scientific knowledge on the subject. GMOs are one of the most marvellous tools we have, but being against them does not make you evil.
Well it's true, just being against GMOs is one thing. But as an example of the harm Greenpeace has done - there is a small ngo in the Philippines that was trying to produce a variety of the golden rice with the added vitamin A, which the farmers could replant each year. This is in contrast to the corporation which was previously trying to do this but realized that there was no profit incentive since the government wanted re-plantable seeds to fit the needs of poor farmers. So the ngo took over, with a solely humanitarian mission.
Greenpeace organized a protest in which they trampled the testing fields. This goes far beyond simply criticizing the corporate interests involved with GMOs. GMOs have also been banned in almost every nation in Africa, due to paranoia and lack of scientific understanding in the west. Greenpeace plays a large role in this. Crops which could potentially help feed millions of starving people are entirely banned. Pseudoscience seems harmless, until it isn't
You're preaching to the choir man. If you read any part of the GMO labeling thread, you'll see that I've been one of the most vocal supporters of GMOs. I researched them for a few years and I think they are absolutely fantastic tools.
I just think that Greenpeace has no evil intent. They're misguided and doing harm, but I think they legitimately think they are doing good.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: Stonehenge]
#22125823 - 08/22/15 07:45 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
clam_dude said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: I disagree on your last couple of sentences anyway.
GMOs are used heavily in other parts of the world. The fact that there's a lot of unscientific opinions here in the west about GMOs really isn't hurting the industry.
There's some amazing shit happening with GMOd rice by the way. Drought tolerance and all sorts of cool stuff 
Yes, and while this rice has been developed, almost the entire continent of Africa has banned it, as well as India - because of scare tactics used by the likes of Greenpeace.
Really? Alright nevermind then that's fucking dumb.
Quote:
Stonehenge said: You haven't been following my posts very well to say that. Read the why we should label gmo thread and you will see all the studies showing gmo is bad, showing roundup is toxic and carcinogenic, etc. Plus the fact they don't produce much bigger yields and yields are dropping from them rapidly.
I have been following that thread. I don't post there because Enlil has made some excellent arguments and I haven't read any strong counter arguments.
I think you're conflating Roundup and Monsanto with the technology that's GMO. It would be like banning computers because of Windows and Microsoft.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22125871 - 08/22/15 08:03 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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There may be some gmo crops which are a good thing but we don't know because long term testing has not been done, only short term. They would never have allowed a drug on the market with so little testing but they allow this. That is because of political pressure and the revolving door between the fda and Monsanto and other big biotec companies.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: Stonehenge]
#22126215 - 08/22/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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That is a myth. Both long- term and multigenerational studies have been conducted. I've linked some for you several times. We've also been eating them for 30 years.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: BoldAsLove]
#22126237 - 08/22/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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That is a falsehood. Moder gm techniques have only been around for a few years. Most testing has been for 90 days or so. Your position has been thoroughly debunked in the gm labeling thread despite your and enlil's prevarications.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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BoldAsLove
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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: Stonehenge]
#22126684 - 08/22/15 12:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'll just leave this short list of long-term original studies that find no negative effects of GMOs (1,2,3,4,5) and multi-generational studies here (1, 2, 3,4,5,6,7). And the most commonly used techniques for genetic transformation have been around since the 80s (source, source). Care to provide a source to defend your position?
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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Douglas Howard
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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: clam_dude]
#22127790 - 08/22/15 04:26 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
clam_dude said: Greenpeace's anti-gmo stance is evil, antiscientific, and doing bad things for the future of humanity. I have heard a lot of talk recently about the evils of Monsanto. But the more I look into it, the more I find that these rumors are mostly conspiracy theory bs, and that greenpeace are in fact the evil ones. At this point, being anti-gmo is about equivalent to denying climate change. And poor, malnourished people in developing countries are paying the price for the prevalence of pseudoscientific nonsense here in the west. Anyone agree?
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Does this pays a lot more than what monsanto is paying you for trolling?
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Douglas Howard
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Re: Greenpeace - an evil and antiscientific organization [Re: BoldAsLove] 1
#22127804 - 08/22/15 04:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
BoldAsLove said: Why shouldn't you be able to patent a GMO? If you spend large amounts of money and years developing something why shouldn't you be allowed to capitalize on it? Where is the incentive for that kind of investment if you can't patent?
For one thing, their products cross contaminate into other fields, and eventually their will be no more conventional seeds left which that will make the patent holder the controller of all seeds. And so no one will be able to start an organic farm if they want to.
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