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schizophrenia and psilocybin?
    #22055546 -

So I can't find what I'm looking for so I figured I'd ask the smartest community on the webs about the subject at hand.

my 23 year old younger sister suffers from schizophrenia  She hears voices, fixates on irrelevant ideas or fears, and is convinced she's always at fault. She'll apologise for an earth quake. It's not like it's an everyday problem, but it is a problem.

she's been taking 1mg of abilify for a while now. It seems to keep her well managed but there are still some major trigger issues and thought processes that need work. I'm curious if anyone has any experience with schizophrenia and psilocybin?

I've read about psilocybins ability to make new neural path ways, potentially good bad or indifferent. I cannot find any studies done on the subject of schizophrenia and psilocybin, if anybody has, please drop a link

I've experimented with micro dosing at 1mg cyans for 30 days felt no ill effect but also no significant positive effect. although it's hard to judge my own actions, what becomes natural won't feel different.

I'm wondering if with some coaching and micro dosing perhaps even just a few guided trips could help her reprogram her brain.

My hopes ate not to just drug up my sister and hope she's okay, I'd like to find a way to help her integrate into a normal adult life. If anyone has suggestions I'd love to hear.


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Have a nice day!    psilocybe cyanescens time lapse

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: N05482]
    #22055641 -

Never heard of shrooms curing schizophrenia. I've seen it cause it. Do you have a source for this idea?

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: Love_spirit]
    #22055689 -

it could do the opposite of help. it could throw off her psychological balance. on the other hand you could be onto something. it might help who knows. I'll ask my psychonautic schizophrenic friend and get back to you


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #22056341 -

Here's an article about the potential for use in psychotherapy

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-treatment

And one on the way the connection of neurons is increased

http://www.iflscience.com/brain/magic-mushroom-chemical-hyper-connects-brain

These and many similar articles are are what lead me to believe that there may be more to it then what I've found. And I'm wondering if there's anyone able to lead me in the right direction, or give some useful advice or information.

Again I fully understand the risks involved in psycho active drugs and mental conditions, I have no intentions of giving her anything anytime soon.

This is merely a way to think aloud, and converse with those who find interest in the idea.

I'm a believer in the healing power of fungus and wanna see something I believe in help someone I love.


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Have a nice day!    psilocybe cyanescens time lapse

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: N05482] * 1
    #22056674 -

Schizophrenia is a complex illness about which very little is understood.  At the present time, research into the illness has centred around abnormalities with how the prefrontal cortex communicates with itself and the rest of the brain.  The prefrontal cortex has a role in short term memory, emotional and behavioural regulation, judgement and problem solving, concentration, and awareness. People suffering from schizophrenia have been found to have reduced innervation between the frontal cortices and the rest of the brain, i.e., fewer physical pathways for neurotransmission.

Superficially, it might appear as though psilocybin mushrooms could be useful there.  After all, if schizophrenia involves inadequate signalling between the frontal lobe and the rest of the brain, and if psilocybin mushrooms increase the brain's interconnectivity, that sounds like a cure, right?  Unfortunately that's not the case.  The prefrontal cortex becomes dysfunctional in schizophrenics in part because of abnormal concentrations of an excitatory neurotransmitter called glutamate.  Glutamate release in the prefrontal cortex is mediated by a serotonin receptor called 5-HT2A, which is also the primary target site of psilocybin and most other psychedelic drugs.  Knocking on this receptor causes glutamate concentrations in the prefrontal cortex to increase.  If that occurs in someone with schizophrenia, they are liable to get much worse.

Psilocybin mushrooms probably have a role in psychotherapy.  They probably do not have a role in neuropsychiatric disorders, i.e., brain disorders, and their use where brain disorders are present is most likely to aggravate the existing condition.


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: Ped] * 1
    #22056708 -

Here's a pdf you may find useful in gaining knowledge and understanding as try to better your sister's condition and well being.
Relying on these 'science' articles may push you to a misinformed place. Sort of a "can't see the forest for the trees" scenario.

http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/8/3/189.full

The pdf looks overwhelming at first but break it into small parts, and you'll have it figured out.  As you look up what you need to, you will learn more thoroughly.

Edited by BayerPhi (08/07/15 06:07 AM)

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: N05482] * 1
    #22056724 -

Yes, don't be giving your sis any shroomys. It could make things worse for her.

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: Le_Canard]
    #22056736 -

Hell, it makes things worse for some of the 'normal' people on here.


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Μανθάνων μὴ κάμνε

:alert: Mycology Fundamentals and Misc. Info :mushroom:

:chemistry: Stains, Reagents, and Media :alert:

Tradelist

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: BayerPhi]
    #22056749 -

:lol: Good point.

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: Le_Canard] * 1
    #22057480 -

Schizophrenic here. Psilocybin has never caused me problems with my illness, both temporary and chronically.
It was the psycho-stimulants that fucked me up.


BUT... I would not take the risk. it might make someone else worse.


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Pain is temporary. It may last for a minute or an hour or a day or even a year but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it will last forever.

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: N05482]
    #22058135 -

The results of experimenting on schizophrenics with psychedelics is considered unpredictable, and of dubious benefit.  Researchers seem to try really hard to eliminate subjects with a mental illness history from their experiments.  The prevailing theory is that the possible bad would outweigh the possible good.     

It's also very difficult to study schizophrenics who self report psychedelic use, because they are generally difficult to work with, in that they often have bad insight into their own condition, don't show up to appointments, lie, confabulate, don't take prescribed medications, and many have polysubstance abuse issues.  Since schizophrenia isn't very well understood on its own, it's pretty difficult to even guess what effect a psychedelic had in the past on someone with the disorder.

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: Hippocampus]
    #22058412 -

Thanx ped you are kinda exactly one of the kinds of people I wanted to hear from on this, your knowledge and insight is infinity valuable.

And Bayer phi thanks for the link, it's been about 3 years since she was diagnosed do I've read quite extensively into the topic, but I'm happy to peruse the info for something I may have not paid enough attention too before.

I understand that there are great risks over benefit, I've been considering that potentially someone who's dealt with delusions while sober and was able to overcome them may also have some tools to deal with a bad trip better than those of us without experience.

Daz01 would you mind elaborating on your experience?


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Have a nice day!    psilocybe cyanescens time lapse

Edited by N05482 (08/07/15 12:03 PM)

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: N05482]
    #22058790 -

I have a type of schizophrenia and have NEVER had a good mushroom trip.

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: eeso]
    #22059477 -

Can you elaborate on the types of trips you did have and the resulting effects?


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Have a nice day!    psilocybe cyanescens time lapse

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: N05482]
    #22061444 -

It's weird for me, I have a diagnosis of schizophrenia, which I blame on cannabis. However, I have had quite a few REALLY positive mushroom trips whilst unknowingly schizophrenic. I later took some with medication, and there must have been a really bad interaction because I was utterly depressed / 'flattened' in 'affect' for a good 3 months. Then later I did it again, who knows why, and it was just sorta trippy, no real mood change, no bad after effects. Recently I've smoked ice, maybe 10 times, in about 20 weeks, because I was hoping for some sort of holiday from my low mood (which persists) and I'm yet to have any sort of aggravation of schizophrenia or any unwanted side effects during or after the meth high. In fact I'm better than ever.

It's not black and white. Who knows what schizophrenia is.

For me, my schizophrenia, it has something to do with cannabis.


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My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: circastes]
    #22062268 -

i don't think cannabis can make someone schizophrenic...


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #22062318 -

tryptkaloids said:
i don't think cannabis can make someone schizophrenic...


THC has widely been regarded as psychosomatic and increase chance of developing mental illnesses.


--------------------
Pain is temporary. It may last for a minute or an hour or a day or even a year but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it will last forever.

Edited by daz01 (08/08/15 11:31 AM)

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: daz01]
    #22062427 -

So I get the cannabis thing, my sister it's very sensitive to certain strains. She smokes og kush for personal cause she says it helps slow her brain down. But give her a sativa dominant strain and she will become paranoid, stressed out, and uncomfortable. I don't think it caused her schizophrenia but it certainly can agitate it.

I'm interested by the fact that you circastes had good trips before knowing and taking meds.

My sister tried some shrooms once years ago before she was diagnosed and she had a good time. She was with some friends and split an eighth with her bf, She wandered the woods with some friends at night. Called me at 3am asking if I knew where I was so she could find me. Wound up being just fine that night but hasn't tried it since.

Id be concerned that the abilify and shrooms may have a bad reaction.

The meth though I'm not at all versed in so I'll leave that one alone. No judgement.


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Have a nice day!    psilocybe cyanescens time lapse

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: daz01]
    #22062438 -

daz01 said:
tryptkaloids said:
i don't think cannabis can make someone schizophrenic...


THC has widely been regarded as psychosomatic and increase chance of developing mental illnesses.


... to people who were already susceptible to these mental illnesses. AKA runs in their family history.

THC can't make one schizophrenic. It can only bring out preexisting schizophrenic, or schizotypal personality disorders.


If you won the genetic lottery of not having any proneness to mental illnesses then these drugs can't exacerbate it in that aspect.  That isn't to say that over doing any psychoactive drug won't lead to a temporary fit of insanity/delusions, or mild mental instability in a normal person. As they most certainly will and do.
Then there are those who will say, "I have such and such diagnosis but when I did it, it didn't effect me."  Then there will be the ones with the same diagnosis who do it, and it leaves them in shambles.

Just be careful and make thoughtful decisions.


EDIT: Just read the post above mine. That abilify is more than likely saving her life and mental stability from a paranoia induce mushroom trip while at the same time mellowing out the entire trip with its antagonistic properties.  The absolute worse thing is for her to believe the mushrooms have fixed her, and abruptly quit her medication.
It will be like a building imploding and collapsing on itself.
For you: http://psychopharmacologyinstitute.com/antipsychotics/aripiprazole/mechanism-of-action-aripiprazole/


--------------------
Μανθάνων μὴ κάμνε

:alert: Mycology Fundamentals and Misc. Info :mushroom:

:chemistry: Stains, Reagents, and Media :alert:

Tradelist

Edited by BayerPhi (08/08/15 12:11 PM)

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Re: schizophrenia and psilocybin? [Re: BayerPhi] * 1
    #22062486 -

Whether it makes people more susceptible or causes it directly, they are both the same things.


--------------------
Pain is temporary. It may last for a minute or an hour or a day or even a year but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it will last forever.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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