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OfflineThe_LosT_SouL
Experimentor
Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 83
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars
    #2108331 - 11/15/03 03:57 AM (13 years, 29 days ago)

Here is my idea. Use ziplock bags for substrate. Im not thinking this would go over to well in a PC heh heh. But it might be okay in just a pot of boiling water.

Here's what I did to spark my interest in the possibility of this experiment working.

1.filled a zellers brand ziplock bag with some salt and corn flakes for the hell of it.

2. Bag was placed in a pot of water, which was on the way to boiling. The bag melted or split open somehow on the bottem corner of the bag, filling it with quite some ammount of water

3. The water is on it's way to being boiled.
4. Got new bag, filled with some table salt.
5. wrapped some tinfoil around bag.
6. place bag in boiling pot of water

it's been in there for a little while now, and it didn't really melt the bag, it was a little disfigured but no signs of anything actually melting, if you know what i mean. Seems the tinfoil is adding that extra protection i thought it might.. I might be wrong however.

I'm going to do an actual experiment later on in the day with some BRF substrate, since I don't have anything else.

What sparked this experiment, was the idea of PC sterylizing a bag of substrate, which i hear is possible, thanks to some good people of the shroomery, one of which will probably end up visiting this post here :smile:

But here i am at home thinking of different ways to grow mushlarooms. Maybe this tek could help the growers who find all their stores sold out they're jars due to to many people making jam on the holiday seasons :smile: lol

Good luck to me and this experiment.

I'll be back to post the results of my experiment, with all the details probably in the evening of later today in EST... Check back then :smile:


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The light dimmed, as I further, helplessly staggered down the cold stoned ramp, into the stagnent depths of the Ananaki Catacombs. |The walls are covered in Mushrooms.. Gulp, chomp, glump! mmmmm goood!


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InvisibleMilkVein
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Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: The_LosT_SouL]
    #2108632 - 11/15/03 08:50 AM (13 years, 29 days ago)

best of luck!...


--------------------
I've been first and last
Look at how the time goes past.
But I'm all alone at last.
Rolling home to you.


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OfflineLoveForGrowth
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Registered: 08/26/03
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Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: The_LosT_SouL]
    #2109206 - 11/15/03 04:00 PM (13 years, 29 days ago)

i would like to hear what happens to your bags, PM me the details, i think everyone has thought of this before, but only you have the guts to try it


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OfflineThe_LosT_SouL
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Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 83
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: LoveForGrowth]
    #2113442 - 11/17/03 12:04 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Hey guys sorry I didn't get to report back as soon as I thought. Here's how the little experiment went down.

1. I filled 2 "Truely" brand (zellers brand) ziplock bags with 500ml of brf substrate each.

2. I squezzed all the air out of the bag's and ziplocked them, then proceeded to wrap the bag's in a layer of tinfoil.

3. I ploped the shiney bags into a big pot of low boiling water and waiting 1.5 hours.

4. With hope in my heart, and a gleem in my eye, I removed the hot tin foil covered bags and opened the tin layer.

5. Alas, to my dissapointment, the bags had a breech, the substrate was soaked.

6. Subsrate was discarded :frown:

So I said "I need a material of plastic that has a much higher resistance to this hell hot steam". I remember someone here told me that, the bags that perlite, vermiculite, peatmoss, topsoil etc come in are autoclavable, meaning, they aren't going to melt if you boil (steam sterylize) or even if you PC as long as the bag does NOT touch the hot hot sides of the PC. On this note, I decided to make up another batch of subsrate. I mixed up 135cl (centaliter, or 1350ml if a cl exists :smile:) of fresh subsrtate and put it into a bag that once contained perlite (of course this bag was washed out and sterylized with lysol :smile:), wrapped it in tin foil, and SS it for 1.5 hours. After the time expired, I went over to my pot and noticed it wasn't steaming. I don't think that it even got to a boiling point. Regaurdless I took the subsrate out of the opaqe bag and transfered it into a SS 1L clear plastic yogurt container and nuked it for 2 minutes on high, because I was afraid there still might be contam's.

After further dilberation I decided not to innoculate this spawn, because chances are It'd just get attacked by the evil green mold and i would have wasted some perfectly good mycelium.

I am however going to make up a new batch of subsrtate later on tonight, except I'm going to transfere the spawn I make into those truley brand ziplock bags, and re-sterylize for about 45 minutes, to kill anything I let get in during transfere. The reason I'm not just leaving it in the perlite bag is because it's not see through, and I won't be able to check progress without opening it. And just incase there is a very deadly black evil lurking within, I don't want to open the bag and inhail deadly evilness!

I'll let you know how it goes!


--------------------
The light dimmed, as I further, helplessly staggered down the cold stoned ramp, into the stagnent depths of the Ananaki Catacombs. |The walls are covered in Mushrooms.. Gulp, chomp, glump! mmmmm goood!


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OfflineThe_LosT_SouL
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Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 83
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: The_LosT_SouL]
    #2113475 - 11/17/03 12:10 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

I also failed to mention what happened with my previous experiment

When I put the bags in just by themselves, without the tinfoil layer, there was a breech in the corner within the first 15 -20 minutes. After I had it wrapped in tinfoil, it withstood the steaming for 40 minutes,(there was no actual subsrtate in these bags, as they were just a test) so I proceeded with actually trying it with subsrtate, with the tin foil layer blah blah you already no that so I'll stop posting info! hehe.. lates, thanks for the luck wishes


--------------------
The light dimmed, as I further, helplessly staggered down the cold stoned ramp, into the stagnent depths of the Ananaki Catacombs. |The walls are covered in Mushrooms.. Gulp, chomp, glump! mmmmm goood!


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Offlinejonas
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Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: The_LosT_SouL]
    #2113482 - 11/17/03 12:12 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Those bags for vaccum sealers might work.


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OfflineThe_LosT_SouL
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Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: jonas]
    #2113581 - 11/17/03 12:35 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Hmmm that's not a bad Idea actually.
Where could I get the bags for vaccum sealers, if you know. I'll try and see if they work if they aren't to expensive :smile:


--------------------
The light dimmed, as I further, helplessly staggered down the cold stoned ramp, into the stagnent depths of the Ananaki Catacombs. |The walls are covered in Mushrooms.. Gulp, chomp, glump! mmmmm goood!


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Anonymous

Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: The_LosT_SouL]
    #2113634 - 11/17/03 12:47 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

good on ya lost soul
its people like you who will find new ways and make new discoveries in this rewarding hobby!
5 shrooms to you buddy!


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OfflineThe_LosT_SouL
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Registered: 03/22/03
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Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: ]
    #2114334 - 11/17/03 03:56 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

I took some pics but im not sure if I should waste the bandwidth so for now it's text.

Here's what I did

1.made up 6 jars worth of substrate(1350ml) and devided it into 3 truely brand ziplock bags.
2.folded the top part of the ziplock bag over itself, unsealed, and placed them into a bag that had vermiculite, not perlite in it.
3.wraped up the verm bag and wraped in tin foil (2 layers)
4.placed in boiling pot of water for 1.5 hours

Here's the result

No water leakage into verm bag
No breeches in Ziplock bags - however bags slightly more plyable
3 steamed ziplock bags were ziplocked and placed into what is going to be it's maturation chamber, just a little see threw tote that will be taped up.

I unwraped the tinfoil cover which wasfull of water, so was the second tin foil lair. The outside of the verm bag was completely wet.
I put the bag into a little plastic tote and it's foggy in there, :smile:
(BTW if you want to see pics pm me)

SUCCESS! The ziplocks bags are undamaged, substrate isn't dry, consitancy looks good(maybe a little moisture gain, and they are very very very warm... So I think it worked, but lets wait for the colonization process.

----
Do you think it's a good thing or a bad thing that my tote is very humid, well what i mean is, the walls of the tote are condensating and everything.
----
well i hope to innoculate very soon with some mycelium from a cake.
but i gtg, my big sis is having a baby and two little ones are on their way.. cheers


--------------------
The light dimmed, as I further, helplessly staggered down the cold stoned ramp, into the stagnent depths of the Ananaki Catacombs. |The walls are covered in Mushrooms.. Gulp, chomp, glump! mmmmm goood!


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OfflineThe_LosT_SouL
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Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 83
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: The_LosT_SouL]
    #2117829 - 11/17/03 07:57 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

12 hours went by since I last posted and I took the giant leap.

3 bags of spawn have had the pleasure of being introduced to a nice peice of mycelium from a previously colonized cake.I tried to be as steryl as possible let's hope that everything goes okay and the bags become snow white very very soon.

If anyone knows where to get vaccum bags for vaccum sealers, let me know.. That's my next experiment..

I say that this method is pretty sound so far only one thing is, the heat kinda fubared the ziplock on the bags, so after I added the mycelium culture so to speak, the bags were folded and placed in another zip lock bag.

Also, before I added the peice of mycelium, I loosened up all the substrate, it was kinda brickey. Is this good or bad?


--------------------
The light dimmed, as I further, helplessly staggered down the cold stoned ramp, into the stagnent depths of the Ananaki Catacombs. |The walls are covered in Mushrooms.. Gulp, chomp, glump! mmmmm goood!


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OfflineThe_LosT_SouL
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Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: The_LosT_SouL]
    #2121435 - 11/19/03 01:27 AM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Seems like everyone stopped reading. Oh well doesn't matter. When everythings done I'm going to tell you guys alll about it, hopefully include many pics and such. But it would be some help if I could get some insight from anyone who has done spawn or knows anything more about what im doing. Everything is helpful.


--------------------
The light dimmed, as I further, helplessly staggered down the cold stoned ramp, into the stagnent depths of the Ananaki Catacombs. |The walls are covered in Mushrooms.. Gulp, chomp, glump! mmmmm goood!


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OfflineThe_LosT_SouL
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Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 83
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: The_LosT_SouL]
    #2121467 - 11/19/03 01:43 AM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Here is the ZIPLOCK bag tek.

(if your ziplock bag can't handle Steam Sterylization or Pressure Cooking)

1. Make up a huge batch of the subsrate of your choice
2. Fill each Ziplock bag to 1/2 capacity, squeeze out air, fold bag over, do not seal.
3. Place all your ziplock bags into one of those bags that contain perlite or vermiculite should do.
4. Wrap up the verm/perlite bag (that contains the ziplock bags) around itself and tape closed.
5. Wrap bag in 2 layers of tinfoil, crimple all edges.
6. Boil a pot of water, bring to slowest possible boil (slightly over med. on most stoves, but make sure the water is bubbling)
7. Place the tinfoil package in the pot , place lid on pot, and SS (steam sterylize) for 1.5 hours. SS by leaving the pot lid on, and not touching the pot until 1.5 hours AT LEAST has gone by.
8. After time has expired, ready a second empty ziplock bag for each ziplock bag of substrate.
9. Open up your package and as steryly and quickly as possible place the folded bags of subsrate length wise (the opposite way of the other bag) and seal the second bag (to prevent contams from getting in when the bag cools)
10. I reccomend these bags are placed in a storage tote, and left for about 12 hours (bags cool much faster then jars, you can even put it in the fridge to speed things up)

AFTER COOLED
11. Take about 1/4 of a colonized (250ml wide mouth) jar and place in the bag of subsrate, seal bag and shake substrate around so that the mycelium chunk is burried. Place bag in dark area and let it giver like you would a cake, accept occasionally shake the bag up to allow the mycelium to cover EVERYTHING.. Then when its ready, CASE!

(if you know your ziplocks will survive the proceedure, just plop em in the water, make sure they are good and sealed though, you don't want water to be the majority)

ALWAYS REMEMBER TO PRACTISE STERYL PROCEEDURES WHEN DEALING WITH MYCOLOGY! CONTAMS ARE ANNOYING SO LETS JUST PREVENT THEM FROM COMMING ALL TOGETHER.

*note, those big bags of perlite i was talking about... You could just fill that with a shitload of subsrate, I did a test and the subsrtate was okay.

Any questions? Just ask, if I can't answere them someone else might be able to. I really hope this little tek can help you all, and my progress reports on the ziplock tek should be comming in within the next couple of days so stay tuned into this forum :smile:


--------------------
The light dimmed, as I further, helplessly staggered down the cold stoned ramp, into the stagnent depths of the Ananaki Catacombs. |The walls are covered in Mushrooms.. Gulp, chomp, glump! mmmmm goood!


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Offlinehavatampa
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Registered: 10/07/03
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Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: The_LosT_SouL]
    #2122320 - 11/19/03 11:52 AM (13 years, 25 days ago)

Why don't you try putting the bag inside another bag and then wrapping that in tinfoil, just for shits and, you know, giggles?


--------------------
There he goes, one of God's own prototypes--some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too wierd to live, too rare to die.


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OfflineSuby
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Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: havatampa]
    #2123920 - 11/19/03 11:17 PM (13 years, 24 days ago)

nice experiment. keep us informed. I wonder how well a real thick bag would hold up?
like a commerial/ industrial style 4mil bag?


--------------------
"Why don't they make the whole plane out of that black box stuff."
Steven Wright.

Some say the glass is half empty, some say the glass is half full, I say, are you going to drink that?

"I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets."


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Offlineunclem
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Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: Suby]
    #2123938 - 11/19/03 11:25 PM (13 years, 24 days ago)



OK normally i dont put my 2 cents in...but i have already tried the foodsaver bag method. It works just fine. Here's what you do...fill a foodsaver bag with pf substrate (no grains), and then vac seal it. Then place it in the microwave....heat it until the bag expands to the point of almost exploding..then stop the microwave..and repeat 3 times. Let the bag cool...then inject with mycelium water and tape shut. Works like a charm..no PC, no Boiling, quick microwave sterilization. The foodsaver bags wont melt...but the substrate gets beyond boiling hot..so be careful

and good luck


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OfflineThe_LosT_SouL
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Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: unclem]
    #2126690 - 11/21/03 05:01 AM (13 years, 23 days ago)

havatampa said

"Why don't you try putting the bag inside another bag and then wrapping that in tinfoil, just for shits and, you know, giggles? "

Well I basically did do this when I put the ziplock bag into the big bag of verm. I think 2 bags may work though.

This bag of vermiculite I have has a 15L capacity, and as long as I could fit this in a pot, well I could make up that much substrate.


I am still waiting to see any signs of mycelium growth on the 2 baggies since the mycelium transfere took place.. But I'll post up some pics with the first signs of mycelium growth. All I can say right now though is, the big bags of verm work great! Appearently they are PCable.

I am trying out the popcorn subsrtate method with my bag experiment, only I think I'm going to leave the substrate in the bag of verm only by itself, wrapped in tinfoil etc, then transfere the substrate into either 1 very large icecream tub, or 2 Litre containers and a small penut butter jar, or all 4 of the above. I won't be sure how much substrate I have until It's done boiling!

Here's a question though, I have PF tek cakes on the go colonizing. How well will things blow over if I add a slice of a BRF cake into a container of popcorn substrate? I guesse we will find out since I'm getting ready to go do it. But if this method works great, I'm going to definatly recomend it, and if there isn't a tek already, I'll create on and put it in the tek section. If all Is good, I will report back here soon :smile:


--------------------
The light dimmed, as I further, helplessly staggered down the cold stoned ramp, into the stagnent depths of the Ananaki Catacombs. |The walls are covered in Mushrooms.. Gulp, chomp, glump! mmmmm goood!


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OfflineMisstressChrissha
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Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: The_LosT_SouL]
    #2126744 - 11/21/03 07:00 AM (13 years, 23 days ago)

The Seal A Meal bags don't melt in boiling water...Just in case you go farther in your experimenting. Thanks for letting us know your ideas and details.


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OfflineThe_LosT_SouL
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Registered: 03/22/03
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Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: MisstressChrissha]
    #2140732 - 11/27/03 07:40 PM (13 years, 17 days ago)

Is a Seal A MEal bag like a vacum sealer bag?


--------------------
The light dimmed, as I further, helplessly staggered down the cold stoned ramp, into the stagnent depths of the Ananaki Catacombs. |The walls are covered in Mushrooms.. Gulp, chomp, glump! mmmmm goood!


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OfflineHippySmoke
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Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: The_LosT_SouL]
    #8352597 - 05/02/08 06:32 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Your experiment so far is very very interesting! I'd like to try your tek if the result's come out decently. :smile: keep it up!


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Offlineshro76nonz
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Re: Using Ziplock Style Bags Instead of Jars [Re: HippySmoke]
    #8352627 - 05/02/08 06:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Wow, this thread is OLD!


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