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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: Crystal G]
    #20877833 -

You can go for a PhD with just a bachelor's? I didn't know that; over here, you definitely need a Master's first. Also, this measure is obviously not intended for PhD students and I would be surprised if they are legally eligible for it.

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: koraks]
    #20877838 -

koraks said:
You can go for a PhD with just a bachelor's? I didn't know that; over here, you definitely need a Master's first. Also, this measure is obviously not intended for PhD students and I would be surprised if they are legally eligible for it.


Nope; you can actually go straight for a PhD program with just a bachelors, and get the master's along the way.

Actually my university professor gave me a very helpful tip. At the time I was thinking of applying for graduate school, and she said that I would have a higher chance of getting in by applying for a PhD program instead of a master's. Apparently schools are more likely to accept PhD students than people applying for master's.

She told me, "Apply for the PhD program at whatever school, and you can always change schools or transfer somewhere else again after you get your master's."

She thought that I was one of her brightest students, and kept encouraging me to pursue a PhD, but unfortunately my last semester of senior year I relapsed on heroin, and was too burnt out to keep studying.

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: Crystal G]
    #20877848 -

Now you mention it, I think I heard something about PhD students picking up a Master's as a first step towards their PhD. Either way, you need the Master's to get the PhD; it's just a matter of what kind of contract you're on, I suppose. Over here, you generally get your Master's first. And if you're a decent enough student, it's easy to get in mostly due to the low financial barriers and limited risk for both the student and the university. Sometimes a pre-master year is required to get a student to the required knowledge level.

PhD tracks generally come in three different variants (with several more combinations of those): publicly funded, through the university, privately funded through gifts and grants from companies and other organizations and privately funded by allowing an employee to pursue a PhD as part of an employment contract (the limited guidance from the university can then either be funded from public budgets or by private organizations). These days, it's getting more common for the first type (the publicly funded, full-time PhD track) to only or primarily allow students in who did a 2-year research Master specifically intended to make the first steps in academic research and to get one or two peer-reviewed publications. My own PhD was about 2/3 privately funded and 1/3 publicly and I didn't have the specific research Master (it didn't exist back then; in fact, we didn't have a Master as we know it now, but a predecessor to it of the same academic level).

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: koraks]
    #20877855 -

Here, you can get an MA either before a PhD, en route to PhD, or not at all. You don't need an MA to either get a PhD or to be admitted to a PhD program.

However, most students elect to get an MA "en route" to PhD because it's "free" and you can get it before you take the exams that decide whether or not you get to stay in the PhD program or are booted out. And naturally it happens before you have to do a dissertation also.

So, if you later fail either your exams or your dissertation then you still end up with an MA.

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: nooneman]
    #20877859 -

Where is "here?" Where are both of you posters from?

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: Crystal G]
    #20877860 -

California.

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: nooneman]
    #20877864 -

nooneman said:
California.


Okay, I am too, and your information is on par with what my professor said.

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: Crystal G]
    #20877865 -

Europe. Doesn't matter much really; just not the US. Basically, every country has its variations on the same theme. It would be interesting to investigate to what extent these variations are caused by differences in funding structures, or if they (also) are due to other reasons.

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: nooneman]
    #20877868 -

nooneman said:
However, most students elect to get an MA "en route" to PhD because it's "free" and you can get it before you take the exams that decide whether or not you get to stay in the PhD program or are booted out. And naturally it happens before you have to do a dissertation also.


Yeah fuck that. Sounds like a lot of work. I'm already discouraged. :lol:

I think I'll go back for an MBA once I finish my patents. My company will be paying for it completely so it will be free for me, and getting an MBA is easy as shit. It's fucking monkey work. Even George Bush Jr has an MBA, therefore any retard can get one. :lol:

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: Crystal G]
    #20877872 -

I'm in a grad program here, so yeah. I know about it from my own situation and from the other students in my department, friends, professors etc.

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: nooneman]
    #20877879 -

An MBA can be useful, although precisely because they come to easy at some places, the title has appeared to have devaluated quite a bit. Still, relevant topics are taught, so go for the content, not for the title.

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: Crystal G]
    #20877883 -

MA programs are really good for the money and time. They take only a fraction of the time that a PhD program does, and they qualify you for almost everything that a PhD does. They're way harder than undergrad classes, but still doable.

PhDs are just complete nightmares. The amount of people who start PhD programs and never finish is insane. A lot of people kill themselves in the later stages of PhD programs. Many develop drug and alcohol problems. It's a really bad idea to go for a PhD.

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: nooneman]
    #20877888 -

I disagree, but it depends on the system you find yourself in. In theUS, it definitely seems more detrimental to people; in Europe, I think less people drop out of the program and it can certainly be rewarding and at times even fun.

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: koraks]
    #20877890 -

koraks said:
An MBA can be useful, although precisely because they come to easy at some places, the title has appeared to have devaluated quite a bit. Still, relevant topics are taught, so go for the content, not for the title.


I think the reason the MBA has become devalued is because many young, inexperienced people get it with no work experience. Usually people get several years of work experience first, before getting an MBA, and then that makes them qualified later on to get into corporate.

I'm not really doing it for the title so much, I would like to learn things such as valuation, for when it comes time to approach investors or sell a business or something.

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: koraks]
    #20877895 -

koraks said:
I disagree, but it depends on the system you find yourself in. In theUS, it definitely seems more detrimental to people; in Europe, I think less people drop out of the program and it can certainly be rewarding and at times even fun.


I know this Swedish guy who has been studying in Japan for his PhD program. He was 25 when I met him. He is 33 now, and still hasn't finished yet. He always says "it'll happen in about a year or so." :lol:

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: koraks]
    #20877904 -

I personally know people who developed drug and alcohol problems, and who killed themselves, so I may be biased. A lot of people developed drug problems, a handful died, the vast majority dropped out.

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: Crystal G]
    #20878131 -

Well, I see a lot of mid- to late-career managers with ample practical experience but just not the brains getting MBA's; in the end, I think that's much worse in term of devaluation of the title.

@nooneman: yeah, personal context shapes our views; around me, the vast majority just got their PhD's within a reasonable 5 years or so.

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: nooneman]
    #20879626 -

nooneman said:
I personally know people who developed drug and alcohol problems, and who killed themselves, so I may be biased. A lot of people developed drug problems, a handful died, the vast majority dropped out.


That totally sounds like something that would happen to me. Crack and Oxy-world, I'm back at it again! :flowstone:

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Re: University Students: DON'T unnecessarily max out your Student Loans [Re: Patlal]
    #20879829 -

Patlal said:
Other than mortgages, loans should be avoided at all cost.


What aboot the government?


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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