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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Enlil]
    #20745080 -

Enlil said:
If you can't articulate an objective test to determine what is and isn't political speech, then just say so.  There's no shame in that.  I know I wouldn't be able to.


I just said it, and I'll say it again - Political speech is pretty much any speech about politics.

What is the problem with that?  :shrug:


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #20745097 -

So tons of movies and television shows are political speech.  Since they are expensive to produce, they'd have to be banned.  The news would be banned.  Documentaries would mostly be banned. 

What a wonderful plan.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Enlil]
    #20745258 -

Enlil said:
So tons of movies and television shows are political speech.  Since they are expensive to produce, they'd have to be banned.  The news would be banned.  Documentaries would mostly be banned. 

What a wonderful plan.


You obviously haven't bothered to read what I already wrote, so I'll say it again:

"I support all political speech except that which is paid for by the by the party delivering the message if it exceeds the individual political contribution limit.  The NY Times doesn't pay money to get their message out; people pay them for their material.  If someone from either side wants to post a political add in the NY Times, then I believe it should be paid for my multiple individuals, none of whom chip in more than their individual contribution limit."

Any other questions?


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #20745301 -

The Times does pay to circulate their paper, yes. All movies cost money to make.  Your argument seems to be that if there's a profit motive, then it's acceptable to spend money on political speech, but otherwise it's not.  Is that basically where you draw the line?


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Enlil]
    #20745340 -

Enlil said:
The Times does pay to circulate their paper, yes. All movies cost money to make.  Your argument seems to be that if there's a profit motive, then it's acceptable to spend money on political speech, but otherwise it's not.  Is that basically where you draw the line?


Once again, here's what I said in a previous post:

"The difference is fairness.  Anyone can choose if they want to read the NY Times or the NY Post.  Anyone can choose if they want to watch Fahrenheit 911 or Obama's America.  But when you force your opinions to be viewed by others through commercials and advertising, the rich have a huge advantage, because only the rich can flood the airwaves with attack adds that can't be countered by people with less money.  That makes things unfair.  Get it???"

In other words, spending on political speech that is voluntary for others to listen to is fine.  Speech that people have to listen to (advertising) should have limits.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #20745349 -

What country do you live in where you're forced to listen to advertisements?


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Enlil]
    #20745833 -

If I'm in a movie theater and they play advertisements before the movie starts, I have little choice but to watch them (or do people in your country scramble outside the theater until an 'all clear' goes off?) 

My point is that people can choose to watch/read political speech, which I don't have an issue with, or someone can pay to put it in front of them, not by that person's choice.  The latter should have per person spending limits.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #20746400 -

In my country, people have many options for watching movies and television shows...even listen to music...without any advertisements at all.  Many people opt for sponsored sources, however, because they're cheaper.  Freedom is wonderful.

You seem blissfully unaware of the fact that advertisements are embedded in nearly every "entertainment" piece you ever watch.  Yes, even political advertisements.  Your test naively singles out those advertisements that are clearly defined by a cut to a commercial or a boxed-in ad in a magazine.  At the same time, you exempt the most ubiquitous, and perhaps most effective, techniques of advertising out there.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Enlil]
    #20746442 -

Quote:
If I'm in a movie theater and they play advertisements before the movie starts, I have little choice but to watch them (or do people in your country scramble outside the theater until an 'all clear' goes off?) 



how you that going to a movie in voluntary but watching the ads before them is forceful is beyond me.


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Think for yourself, question authority

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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Enlil]
    #20748036 -

Enlil said:
So tons of movies and television shows are political speech.  Since they are expensive to produce, they'd have to be banned.  The news would be banned.  Documentaries would mostly be banned. 

What a wonderful plan.


A great many of them are


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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: zappaisgod]
    #20748059 -

I'm pretty sure "Pootie Tang" would still be available, though:



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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Enlil]
    #20748409 -

Enlil said:
In my country, people have many options for watching movies and television shows...even listen to music...without any advertisements at all.  Many people opt for sponsored sources, however, because they're cheaper.  Freedom is wonderful.


Of course.  I've never argued that advertising should be banned; only that there should be limits on how much any one person can spend on political advertising.

Enlil said:
You seem blissfully unaware of the fact that advertisements are embedded in nearly every "entertainment" piece you ever watch.  Yes, even political advertisements.  Your test naively singles out those advertisements that are clearly defined by a cut to a commercial or a boxed-in ad in a magazine.  At the same time, you exempt the most ubiquitous, and perhaps most effective, techniques of advertising out there.


I am aware of this, and the same rules would apply.  If you want to allow political ads in your movie at no cost to the advertiser, fine.  If you want to get paid for this, then the individual contributor limit should still apply.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #20748444 -

So, I can fund my movie with as much of my own money as I want...and I can put as much political advertising as I want in that movie, and that doesn't run afoul of your plan.  Sounds like I'm allowed to spend millions promoting political candidates and issues.  SCORE!


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Enlil]
    #20748546 -

Fin
Enlil said:
So, I can fund my movie with as much of my own money as I want...and I can put as much political advertising as I want in that movie, and that doesn't run afoul of your plan.  Sounds like I'm allowed to spend millions promoting political candidates and issues.  SCORE!


Correct.  And I probably won't watch your movie unless I already agree with your message, so you won't gain much.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #20748578 -

You won't, no.  But many people will because I'll make sure that the trailer is really cool and I'll advertise the shit out of the trailer.  As you know, in the U.S. people are forced to watch advertising, so I'll make sure that every man, woman, and child is forced to watch the trailer at least 100 times.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #20748616 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If I'm in a movie theater and they play advertisements before the movie starts, I have little choice but to watch them (or do people in your country scramble outside the theater until an 'all clear' goes off?) 

My point is that people can choose to watch/read political speech, which I don't have an issue with, or someone can pay to put it in front of them, not by that person's choice.  The latter should have per person spending limits.




BULL-PUSSY!!!  A private business can run whatever advertisement they want.  It's a PRIVATE business.

The response to them is to tell them you will not patronize their services because of their political advertisements.  If you don't like their viewpoint--which probably isn't their viewpoint, it is a paid advertisement--then don't patronize them.

And seriously, is a Koch Brothers advertisement played at a movie theatre going to move you so deeply that you start voting republican????  :grin:


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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Enlil]
    #20748692 -

Enlil said:
You won't, no.  But many people will because I'll make sure that the trailer is really cool and I'll advertise the shit out of the trailer.  As you know, in the U.S. people are forced to watch advertising, so I'll make sure that every man, woman, and child is forced to watch the trailer at least 100 times.


Corporations can already do that and this method likely wouldn't change.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #20748706 -

Well, it took awhile, but at least you've made it clear that you haven't thought this out at all.  Your plan is both unworkable AND ineffective.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Enlil]
    #20748806 -

Enlil said:
Well, it took awhile, but at least you've made it clear that you haven't thought this out at all.  Your plan is both unworkable AND ineffective.


One of the finest one-two shots I've seen here in years.  Maybe ever.


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Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: starfire_xes]
    #20749069 -

starfire_xes said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If I'm in a movie theater and they play advertisements before the movie starts, I have little choice but to watch them (or do people in your country scramble outside the theater until an 'all clear' goes off?) 

My point is that people can choose to watch/read political speech, which I don't have an issue with, or someone can pay to put it in front of them, not by that person's choice.  The latter should have per person spending limits.




BULL-PUSSY!!!  A private business can run whatever advertisement they want.  It's a PRIVATE business.

The response to them is to tell them you will not patronize their services because of their political advertisements.  If you don't like their viewpoint--which probably isn't their viewpoint, it is a paid advertisement--then don't patronize them.


Relax.  No one said that advertising should be banned.  Only that there should be political contribution limits.  :shake:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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