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Re: Do Libertarians Seem As Crazy As Feminists? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20620975 -

The Ecstatic said:
psyconaught said:
you're describing voluntaryism, which fits within the ideals of an anarcho capitalist society.


No.

Anarcho-capitalism is hugely different.


With communism: we all share the Apple tree
With anarcho capitalism: whoever controls the Apple tree gets to do whatever they want with it


they would have to all agree to share the apple tree, which fits perfectly in an anarcho capitalist society, we live in a capitalist country right now and theres nothing stopping you from voluntarily operating within the co-op and community owned model. Thats the beauty of capitalism, its free of coercion so you are free to live in whatever utopian hippy commune you want while everyone else can pursue profits or take part in whatever model they choose, its impossible to have universal voluntary communism.


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Think for yourself, question authority

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Re: Do Libertarians Seem As Crazy As Feminists? [Re: psyconaught]
    #20621082 -

Except the state exists here.


If I don't want to pay taxes, be drafted, obey traffic laws, etc, I'm met with violence and imprisonment from the state.

You're not wrong in that they're both similar. Though, in theory, an anarcho capitalist society would allow certain people to rise to positions of power and take hold the means of production. With communism (in theory) nobody (and everybody) owns the means of production.


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Re: Do Libertarians Seem As Crazy As Feminists? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20621147 -

until someone (me) decides i don't want you taking any of my cattle, boom, communism without the state fails.


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Think for yourself, question authority

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Re: Do Libertarians Seem As Crazy As Feminists? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20621335 -

The Ecstatic said:
Except the state exists here.


If I don't want to pay taxes, be drafted, obey traffic laws, etc, I'm met with violence and imprisonment from the state.

You're not wrong in that they're both similar. Though, in theory, an anarcho capitalist society would allow certain people to rise to positions of power and take hold the means of production. With communism (in theory) nobody (and everybody) owns the means of production.


Without the state to protect you assholes like me will own you and there won't be a motherfucking thing you can do about it.  If the kollektif controls everything it is a state.


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Re: Do Libertarians Seem As Crazy As Feminists? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #20621370 -

zappaisgod said:
The Ecstatic said:
Except the state exists here.


If I don't want to pay taxes, be drafted, obey traffic laws, etc, I'm met with violence and imprisonment from the state.

You're not wrong in that they're both similar. Though, in theory, an anarcho capitalist society would allow certain people to rise to positions of power and take hold the means of production. With communism (in theory) nobody (and everybody) owns the means of production.


Without the state to protect you assholes like me will own you and there won't be a motherfucking thing you can do about it.  If the kollektif controls everything it is a state.


they wouldn't control everything.


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Re: Do Libertarians Seem As Crazy As Feminists? [Re: psyconaught]
    #20621373 -

psyconaught said:
until someone (me) decides i don't want you taking any of my cattle, boom, communism without the state fails.


Probably why I said it was highly unfeasible a few pages ago.

Although, it wouldn't be your cattle.


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Edited by The Ecstatic (09/26/14 02:45 PM)

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Re: Do Libertarians Seem As Crazy As Feminists? [Re: D.M.T]
    #20622941 -

D.M.T said:
I don't know. I'm both and the non-average populace of Shroomery think I'm crazy. So I'm sure society does too.


agreed

except I'm not a feminist. And I honestly can't see how libertarians are more like psychotic feminists then liberals or republicans


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: Do Libertarians Seem As Crazy As Feminists? [Re: psyconaught]
    #20622998 -

psyconaught said:
until someone (me) decides i don't want you taking any of my cattle, boom, communism without the state fails.


Doesn't communism just stand for "communal ism" as in, a community that governs?

I don't see why it'd have to be an entire state, it could be separate by neighbourhood, and the only job of the state is to make sure each neighbourhood is following the rules of being... communal.

I suppose it'd be very difficult to do, and it'd pretty much be state run. But from what I know, true communism and true democracy have never existed. Communism was supposed to be communities banded together to form a communal system but each community governed by the community from what I know. And democracy was supposed to be for the people by the people, not for the people by the politicians who decide everything but yet the people can decide on the politician but that's it. As far as I know none of those things have ever existed in the form of a government

I do not believe a non dictatorial government has ever existed. The idea behind one comes up, but there is always a separation of what people can decide in a government, an idea of what it should be, but decided by the top.

However, I find it difficult to believe people could ever be mature enough to handle an entire community like in terms of industry and economy, successfully, successfully and fairly trading, each doing hard work and getting such credit for hard work, the bargaining of what work they are doing between the person they are doing it for, etc. behind an entire community. I just can't see people "agreeing" to be that organized. Most people do things when their name is in it, but when they have to cut back and be modest and work hard to help someone else achieve something without getting all the credit, they generally don't give a shit. Hence the need for government. People need things, things must be done, must be achieved, hard work must accomplish the things that need to be created for people to survive and survive comfortably, but I doubt people can organize themselves without arguing over who gets the most and why they deserve more and why should they share etc. I can't see people being that organized. The need for government is as much integral to people as a need for themselves, as it is for a government to provide it for them.

You know, travelled the world and the 7 seas, everybody is looking for something, some of them want to abuse you, some of them want to be abused. That sort of thing, really it makes sense though if you think about it


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: Do Libertarians Seem As Crazy As Feminists? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #20623014 -

zappaisgod said:
The Ecstatic said:
Except the state exists here.


If I don't want to pay taxes, be drafted, obey traffic laws, etc, I'm met with violence and imprisonment from the state.

You're not wrong in that they're both similar. Though, in theory, an anarcho capitalist society would allow certain people to rise to positions of power and take hold the means of production. With communism (in theory) nobody (and everybody) owns the means of production.


Without the state to protect you assholes like me will own you and there won't be a motherfucking thing you can do about it.  If the kollektif controls everything it is a state.


I kind of think I'd be kicking your ass and you'd be owned by imachavel

sucks to be you

However, it's obvious this was one day the way things were. People just got beat and stood in line and fucking took it because obviously some would always dominate over others. Then after wars and wars a group would eventually govern because they had all the power, and not wanting others to stand against them, would create a system of power to control others in a government. Hence the U.S.A., and every other fucking government in existence.

Otherwise it'd probably be like Afghanistan and just groups fighting all the time for power, and really no one in control


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: Do Libertarians Seem As Crazy As Feminists? [Re: imachavel]
    #20623171 -

Of course that's the way it was, imac. At first it was man against man, they soon found that groups were more powerful than individuals so cliques formed and then larger groups. The first cliques would be extended families which brought in outsiders to mate with and formed villages. Government evolved out of big gangs, the head of the gang laying down rules and settling disputes. Rome was an early city state with various inter related families. Bigger and bigger groups formed and the biggest swallowed the smaller ones and nations formed which continued the process.

We see this going on today in the streets. Its man against man and then gangs form because they have more power than individuals, then the gangs get bigger like bloods and crips or ms 13, etc. The cops and behind them the military are the biggest gangs.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Do Libertarians Seem As Crazy As Feminists? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #20624702 -

Stonehenge said:
Of course that's the way it was, imac. At first it was man against man, they soon found that groups were more powerful than individuals so cliques formed and then larger groups. The first cliques would be extended families which brought in outsiders to mate with and formed villages. Government evolved out of big gangs, the head of the gang laying down rules and settling disputes. Rome was an early city state with various inter related families. Bigger and bigger groups formed and the biggest swallowed the smaller ones and nations formed which continued the process.

We see this going on today in the streets. Its man against man and then gangs form because they have more power than individuals, then the gangs get bigger like bloods and crips or ms 13, etc. The cops and behind them the military are the biggest gangs.


the less verbose way of saying it. Power always finds a place to rest it's head


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: Do Libertarians Seem As Crazy As Feminists? [Re: imachavel]
    #20624715 -

*its


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Do Libertarians Seem As Crazy As Feminists? [Re: imachavel]
    #20624889 -

imachavel said:
zappaisgod said:
The Ecstatic said:
Except the state exists here.


If I don't want to pay taxes, be drafted, obey traffic laws, etc, I'm met with violence and imprisonment from the state.

You're not wrong in that they're both similar. Though, in theory, an anarcho capitalist society would allow certain people to rise to positions of power and take hold the means of production. With communism (in theory) nobody (and everybody) owns the means of production.


Without the state to protect you assholes like me will own you and there won't be a motherfucking thing you can do about it.  If the kollektif controls everything it is a state.


I kind of think I'd be kicking your ass and you'd be owned by imachavel

sucks to be you

However, it's obvious this was one day the way things were. People just got beat and stood in line and fucking took it because obviously some would always dominate over others. Then after wars and wars a group would eventually govern because they had all the power, and not wanting others to stand against them, would create a system of power to control others in a government. Hence the U.S.A., and every other fucking government in existence.

Otherwise it'd probably be like Afghanistan and just groups fighting all the time for power, and really no one in control


You are disorganized and mostly incoherent.  I have been a leader of men for decades.  You would have no shot


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Re: Do Libertarians Seem As Crazy As Feminists? [Re: BlackWidow]
    #20632808 -

In my geographical area, and the environments in which I spend time, I'm absolutely surrounded by liberals. Just about all of these people would call themselves "feminists" if asked.
So would I, for that matter.

However, I also identify with libertarian ideology. I desire voluntary society free of violent coercion. To me it seems that limiting government as much as possible is the best way to achieve that.

When asked if they would call themselves "libertarians" a year ago, many of these liberals would have laughed and made a joke about the Tea Party and/or Michele Bachmann. However the political atmosphere is changing.

Through much debate and education, I feel that I've played a role in showing these ex-Democrats that the systems of oppression which they hate so much (patriarchy, racism, poverty, war, etc) are almost entirely created and upheld by state institutions.

The same men, women, and gender-queer people who when I met them would have said, "Why would anyone need an 'assault rifle'?" now support the idea that the self-armament of disenfranchised people is the only way that they can protect themselves from violent, oppressive forces. Look at how the people of Ferguson are doing with their 2nd Amendment Rights restricted.

Gay Pride rallies in my city this year were filled with signs and posters attacking police. LGBT people remember that the Stonewall Riots were in response to police brutality.

The surveillance state violates the rights of Muslim, Arab, Persian, and African people more than any other groups besides the "politically radical".

Warfare is consistently waged by our country against people without white skin.

Neither feminists or libertarians are crazy. They're both sick of the violence that is committed by homicidal governing entities.

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