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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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MS: Strain Isolation vs Cloning Question
    #19810427 -

I know that strain isolation and cloning are two separate things all together and that there are a lot of posts on this subject already, however I still don't understand fully in detail the concepts/differences between them and wanted to ask about a scenario.  Right now, I have spores and am looking for the least involved (least amount of trial an error as I only have one tub to grow/test them in, and i'd prefer not to do cakes, although if crucial, then I will).  Although a pure isolate would be great, my goal is simply to achieve a nice even pin set, with nice homogenous growth all around, thus I don't necessarily care about achieving a true isolate.  My question is, would there be a big difference between these options?

A) Inoculate MS on agar and transfer until I see a strong sector, grow that out in my tub, then clone tissue from a cluster of the best looking fruits, to then further isolate that tissue on agar.

B) Just do a MS grow, and then take tissue from a nice cluster of the best looking fruits, and then further isolate.

Would the only main difference be that in option A, the growth might be a little more uniform/better in that initial first grow? or would there also be less strains when I then took tissue from a clone?  However on the contrary, would option A possibly be a drawback as I could unknowingly choose a weak sector or sector which produces small fruits etc.  Thanks for any insight! And I apologize if any of these questions seem ignorant, this will be my first experience with agar!


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Edited by bengal (04/08/14 12:17 AM)

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Re: MS: Strain Isolation vs Cloning Question [Re: bengal]
    #19810442 -

you nailed it, go with b, if your hunting genetics just get some clean growth to work with


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Re: MS: Strain Isolation vs Cloning Question [Re: cronicr]
    #19810536 -

Quote:
A) Inoculate MS on agar and transfer until I see a strong sector, grow that out in my tub, then clone tissue from a cluster of the best looking fruits, to then further isolate that tissue on agar.


Quote:
B) Just do a MS grow, and then take tissue from a nice cluster of the best looking fruits, and then further isolate.


This doesn't make sense.  For one thing you're going to "further isolate" an isolate?:confused:  When something is isolated, you're done there is no further isolating.  A and B almost sound the same.

You don't transfer til you see a "strong" sector.  You transfer to acquire a single sector isolate.  You transfer rhizmorphic mycelium til you have isolated several single sectors.  Again you wont have just one isolated sector you'll have several, you'll need to test/grow them out to find which one is the best.  When you determine which one is best and grow it out, you do not clone the fruit as its pointless and inefficient.   

You go back to the single sector agar dish which you will have saved in the fridge instead of cloning the fruits of your isolate grow.

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Re: MS: Strain Isolation vs Cloning Question [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #19810554 -

who says he's gonna further isolate an isolate, clones sector sometimes:shrug:
he's talking about cloning and isolating from there to avoid the method your talking about which is isolating from spores and having to test them out


--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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Re: MS: Strain Isolation vs Cloning Question [Re: cronicr]
    #19810627 -

Yes, sorry if my post was unclear.  By "Just do a MS grow", I meant just fruit straight from the MS, then take a clone to then try to isolate from. So it would be trying to isolate from a clone tissue, not isolating an isolate.  Of course, I would still have sectors to eventually test out but not as many if I am not mistaken?  If I am understanding it correctly, cloning can be used to in a way to skip over having to test a large amount of sectors by using tissue/myc that has already proven to fruit decently.  Once I grow that tissue out on agar,  I will still have some sectors to test out, just not as many?  The only downside as to not doing an isolate straight from MS and testing out all the many individuals is that I very well might miss out on the true best performing strain?  Am I some what correct or totally off in my logic?


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Re: MS: Strain Isolation vs Cloning Question [Re: bengal]
    #19810689 -

with cloning you don't even have to isolate anything thats really up to you, it's already proven it's ability


--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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Re: MS: Strain Isolation vs Cloning Question [Re: bengal]
    #19810716 -

A clone tissue is a SET of multiple genes...

an isolate is a specific gene.

Why you would isolate a nice set of genes in this case "cluster genes"? If they are perfect like that?


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Re: MS: Strain Isolation vs Cloning Question [Re: cronicr]
    #19810718 -

damn you cronic you post it first !!!


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My Perfect wheat preparation TEK
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Re: MS: Strain Isolation vs Cloning Question [Re: bengal]
    #19810738 -

cronicr said:
who says he's gonna further isolate an isolate, clones sector sometimes:shrug:
he's talking about cloning and isolating from there to avoid the method your talking about which is isolating from spores and having to test them out


Clones dont sector sometimes, they nearly always sector and have more than one substrain in them.  If youre isolating from multispore or isolating the substrains of a clone, you still have to grow/test them out period.  I've found isolating a clone to be pointless.  In my limited experience, the isolates of a clone do not preform any better than the composite clone.  I've read a hypothesis somewhere that the strongest/best substrain of a clone basically overrides the weaker poorer preforming substrains of the clone.

bengal said:
Yes, sorry if my post was unclear.  By "Just do a MS grow", I meant just fruit straight from the MS, then take a clone to then try to isolate from. So it would be trying to isolate from a clone tissue, not isolating an isolate.  Of course, I would still have sectors to eventually test out but not as many if I am not mistaken?  If I am understanding it correctly, cloning can be used to in a way to skip over having to test a large amount of sectors by using tissue/myc that has already proven to fruit decently.  Once I grow that tissue out on agar,  I will still have some sectors to test out, just not as many?  The only downside as to not doing an isolate straight from MS and testing out all the many individuals is that I very well might miss out on the true best performing strain?  Am I some what correct or totally off in my logic?


Id just use the clone as is for the reason I explained to cronicr.  I made a post a while back where I outlined my experiences isolating the substrains of a clone.  I tested each isolate in monotubs, I had like 4 or so.  They didnt preform any better than the composite clone, in fact one of substrains I tested out didnt even fruit at all.

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Re: MS: Strain Isolation vs Cloning Question [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #19810919 -

Mush 4 Brains said:
Clones dont sector sometimes, they nearly always sector


i know i was being cheeky:biggrin:
i've also found it pointless to isolate any further after a clone, but i just say option b because iut gets him to his harvest/genetics the fastest


--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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Re: MS: Strain Isolation vs Cloning Question [Re: cronicr]
    #19812616 -

Thanks for all the valuable information and for clearing up my misunderstanding.  Alright, I will definitely opt for cloning then as although it would be super fun and interesting, at this point, I don't have the space or time to test out a high amount of strains for true isolation.


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