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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: morrowasted]
    #19672716 -

Sorry, can't do it and I know the difference between empathy ans sympathy.  As far as I'm concerned this guy is another species.


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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19672721 -

Unsurprising.

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: morrowasted]
    #19672724 -

I'm quite sure of that.


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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19672731 -

Unsurprising.




.

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19672894 -

zappaisgod said:
I'm not confusing psychologists and psychiatrists at all and did in fact make a specific distinction.  Read much?  But you don't seem to understand the difference yourself.  Psychiatrists do not "attempt to fix mental issues using drugs".  They just can prescribe if it is appropriate.  They do not "try to". 

You sure seem excited about CBT. 

Your experiences are a lot more limited than mine.


No you didn't. You used them interchangeably, as many people do who are completely clueless about what they actually do. Judging from your other comments, it's quite clear that you do not have any idea of the science behind either.

Yes I do think CBT has a lot of potential. I am always interested in promising research in many fields, and this is a field that has shown a lot of promise.

Your experiences are just as limited. There is a reason why sample studies do not just take one person and find his friends who have had experiences with a psychologist.. This would have been covered in your first year science courses..


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Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name

Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world?


There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K
Something abut that anaesthetic rush... :inlove:

Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences
The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine
The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #19672952 -

Quote:
There is a reason why sample studies do not just take one person and find his friends who have had experiences with a psychologist.. This would have been covered in your first year science courses.


Yo. I just had to second that.

Sorry. hahaha.

:mushroom2:


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #19672967 -

tymoteusz3 said:
zappaisgod said:
I'm not confusing psychologists and psychiatrists at all and did in fact make a specific distinction.  Read much?  But you don't seem to understand the difference yourself.  Psychiatrists do not "attempt to fix mental issues using drugs".  They just can prescribe if it is appropriate.  They do not "try to". 

You sure seem excited about CBT. 

Your experiences are a lot more limited than mine.


No you didn't. You used them interchangeably, as many people do who are completely clueless about what they actually do. Judging from your other comments, it's quite clear that you do not have any idea of the science behind either.



ORLY?  Like in this post?

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19672148#19672148

zappaisgod said:
And I know dozens of people, peers and children, who have gone to see psychologists, often for years, and have received exactly no more relief than people who see priests or wise friends.  The only mental health professionals who, in my experience, have accomplished anything that could not have been accomplished by shamans are psychiatrists and they have a mixed set of results because the prescribing of drugs is also somewhat guesswork as the best of them admit.




Suck it.

Quote:
Yes I do think CBT has a lot of potential. I am always interested in promising research in many fields, and this is a field that has shown a lot of promise.


Oh so now it has potential.  I thought you were saying it was a proven therapy that worked.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19672181#19672181

tymoteusz3 said:
Newsflash: Science has changed immensely since 1979.
Also psychology is not slapdash guesswork. CBT, which is the leading psychological treatment used, has nothing to do with guesswork or analyzing, like you see in the movies.




More suck it






Quote:


Your experiences are just as limited. There is a reason why sample studies do not just take one person and find his friends who have had experiences with a psychologist.. This would have been covered in your first year science courses..


My first year science courses taught me that psychology was not science.


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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19672994 -

zappaisgod said:
tymoteusz3 said:
Yes I do think CBT has a lot of potential. I am always interested in promising research in many fields, and this is a field that has shown a lot of promise.


Oh so now it has potential.  I thought you were saying it was a proven therapy that worked.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19672181#19672181

tymoteusz3 said:
Newsflash: Science has changed immensely since 1979.
Also psychology is not slapdash guesswork. CBT, which is the leading psychological treatment used, has nothing to do with guesswork or analyzing, like you see in the movies.






You really need reading comprehension. Everything I said there is exactly what I claimed - CBT which is the leading psychological treatment used has nothing to do with guesswork or analyzing. It also shows a lot of potential. It has been shown to be useful in many cases. It can't be said "proven to work in all cases" as #1 that would be untrue and #2 it takes time to realize if that is true or not. Again, a simple search of the studies would show you this. Instead of being stuck in your 1979 ideals, read a little on the changes psychology especially has gone through, and the differing therapy treatments used, their success rates, etc. You say you are a smart man - use some of that brain and educate yourself. Or don't. In the end it only hurts yourself.

Quote:

My first year science courses taught me that psychology was not science.


Your first year science course was also from 1979. Psychology itself has changed quite a bit in that time. Science is always changing - that's why it's important to stay up to date so that you are not spouting stuff that may have been true in 1979 but isn't anymore :shrug:


--------------------
Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name

Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world?


There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K
Something abut that anaesthetic rush... :inlove:

Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences
The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine
The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: morrowasted]
    #19673012 -

morrowasted said:
Everyone deserves empathy. I'll empathize with a murderer as I execute him. In the Song of Ice and Fire series, Ned Stark, the kind, teaches his son that he must always be the one to carry out the execution, so that he can never lose sight of the consequences of his own power.


Only to be executed at the blade of his own sword right in front of both of his daughters.


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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #19673030 -

I have kept up and I was a big adherent of behaviorism as being one of the rare instances of real science in psychology, yea verily even unto the stone age of my studies.  Yes, the principles of it were taught then.  Yes they have not changed.  I wonder, since you are such a believer in behaviorism, why you support the welfare state.


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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Dark_Star]
    #19673051 -

Dark_Star said:
morrowasted said:
Everyone deserves empathy. I'll empathize with a murderer as I execute him. In the Song of Ice and Fire series, Ned Stark, the kind, teaches his son that he must always be the one to carry out the execution, so that he can never lose sight of the consequences of his own power.


Only to be executed at the blade of his own sword right in front of both of his daughters.


George RR Martin truly does not give a fuck how much you care about his characters

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: morrowasted]
    #19673098 -

morrowasted said:
Dark_Star said:
morrowasted said:
Everyone deserves empathy. I'll empathize with a murderer as I execute him. In the Song of Ice and Fire series, Ned Stark, the kind, teaches his son that he must always be the one to carry out the execution, so that he can never lose sight of the consequences of his own power.


Only to be executed at the blade of his own sword right in front of both of his daughters.


George RR Martin truly does not give a fuck how much you care about his characters


Ned was my fucking favourite character.
I love those books but the author can be an ass. :lol:

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #19673108 -

tyrion is totes my fave

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: XUL]
    #19673174 -

XUL said:
Quote:
so why
should it be any different for prisoners.


Because some prisoners are angry already and it doesn't seem wise to further disgruntle them by threatening their food supply and fueling their possible contempt fore society, but rather to rehabilitate them and prepare them for their eventual re-assimilation into society.



fuck them, clearly these are the types of prisoners that shouldnt be
integrated back into society, what, they're mad because the man is
keeping them down? what of their victims?... they mad because they're
in prison? maybe they shouldnt have taken up a career in crime, what's
that, it's too late... well fuck them, now they learn to abide by the
fucking rules, you work, you eat... they cant follow that simple fucking
rule then how can we expect them to integrate back into society and if
they refuse to eat, you can attend their funerals because they've chosen
to avoid rehabilitation and reintegration

Quote:
Quote:
"if you dont work, you dont eat"


It seems threatening to me. But I am just one person.



how is it threatening? if it were 'work or be beaten to death' then that's
certainly a threat, food is for workers, non workers are a drain on the
system and the system needs to support it's self, cant do that if no one is
working but everyone is eating


Quote:
Quote:
first you provide incentive


I agree, but I think the manner in which we provide the incentive is very important. Giving prisoners a choice to live or die is truly different than incentive in which the prisoners may either earn freedoms or maintain minimal ones.



really? life isnt an incentive? why are so many death row inmates begging
for pardons, that's right, because they dont want to die, maybe they'd
rather work... it's an option, all in their hands. the food is there, it's
available but only if they come in through the door that workers enter
through


Quote:
Quote:
it's not a threat, a threat would be telling him he wouldnt be fed
regardless



Oh. I thought that is what you meant when you said:

Quote:
"if you dont work, you dont eat"




workers eat
non workers dont eat

wanna skip a day of work, then you skip a day of eating
wanna skip a week of work, then you chose to skip a week of eating
wanna work every day, then you eat 3 times a day every day

how long would you go without working if work meant food?

it's prison, it shouldnt be super happy fun time


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19673204 -

zappaisgod said:
Some Shroomery members think the murderer deserves some level of empathy and compassion given that his parents were pooheads and he lived in a shitty neighborhood made of people like him.



actually he grew up in middle class white suburbia, daddy was a career
military man, still married to mom, he was given lots of chances to do
well but pissed them away, he was out on bond for a burglary when he
committed his murder


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #19673207 -

Science of the mind is a stupid concept IMO.  Its not something you can really study like a science, might as well have a science of religion or philosophy.  Social sciences aren't real science.


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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: morrowasted]
    #19674921 -

morrowasted said:
i) Dude A murders Dude B.
ii) Dude B writes letter pointing out systematized marginalization of races and classes within the forced labor industry (otherwise known as the prison system).


If Dude A murdered Dude B... how did Dude B write anything?


Quote:
am i getting this right?


It would seem not.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19675050 -

lol mybad

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: morrowasted]
    #19675116 -

Quote:
Prisoner#1M


I understand your opinion.

I don't agree with everything you said but I understand.

If I didn't have 5 chapters of abnormal to read I would take a look at prison programs or something. But it's too much to get into at the moment.

Anyways. Good discussion.

:pipesmoke:


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TRUMP 2020

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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