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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19671728 -

i like the pit idea. murderers go in the pit. has a nice ring to it.

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Asante] * 2
    #19671773 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
http://gawker.com/a-letter-from-ray-jasper-who-is-about-to-be-executed-1536073598



Discuss, and remember empathy is putting the shoe on the other foot.


I read this the other day.
I find most people judge others using their own lives as a reference point - which is flawed because the person doing the judgement did not have the same childhood, the same experiences, the same triggers which manifested itself in the crime. The whole culture of revenge is very disturbing (many responses in this thread are actually kind of sick). The thing about revenge which strikes me odd is that the act of revenge will never bring the person who was killed back, it also won't help the victim's family heal. Revenge just eats away at people. Rehabilitation, on the other hand, actually has a tangible item at the end. 

It's too bad as a society in general we do not value psychologists / counsellors in the same way we value the police.


--------------------
Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name

Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world?


There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K
Something abut that anaesthetic rush... :inlove:

Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences
The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine
The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #19671799 -

Quote:
It's too bad as a society in general we do not value psychologists / counsellors in the same way we value the police.


If you backtrack in the thread you will find a large conversation between Prisoner#1 and myself. In that conversation I talked a lot about my experience as a student of psychology.

Forensic psychologists and expert witnesses are becoming more popular these days. Things are changing. I am taking a forensic psychology class now and it is damn interesting. I never knew how much influence the social working community had on the courts and the police force.


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (03/09/14 04:11 PM)

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19671803 -

The pit thing sounds like something that could be put on pay per view and the proceeds go to the victims' families.

As for the letter, it's just another murdering fuckbag trying to play the victim.

luvdemshrooms said:
He slit a mans throat and held him down while an accomplice finished the job.

He's getting exactly what he deserves. The only sad part is the state will be merciful in how they execute him.


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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #19671808 -

tymoteusz3 said:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
http://gawker.com/a-letter-from-ray-jasper-who-is-about-to-be-executed-1536073598



Discuss, and remember empathy is putting the shoe on the other foot.


I read this the other day.
I find most people judge others using their own lives as a reference point - which is flawed because the person doing the judgement did not have the same childhood, the same experiences, the same triggers which manifested itself in the crime. The whole culture of revenge is very disturbing (many responses in this thread are actually kind of sick). The thing about revenge which strikes me odd is that the act of revenge will never bring the person who was killed back, it also won't help the victim's family heal. Revenge just eats away at people. Rehabilitation, on the other hand, actually has a tangible item at the end. 

It's too bad as a society in general we do not value psychologists / counsellors in the same way we value the police.


Society doesn't have a brain to value with and psychologists and counselors are no better than priests or other shamans.  You are right that I cannot walk in this man's shoes since I never muredered anybody. Fuck him.  Fry him.


--------------------

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19671844 -

Quote:
Society doesn't have a brain to value with and psychologists and counselors are no better than priests or other shamans.


Don't forget judges and juries too. They are permitted to use large amounts of discretion in the courts. And you (maybe not) are the jury.

The psychologists, social workers, doctors of any science, or any professional makes up the expert witness population. And the expert witnesses testify on behalf of todays best theories findings and thus the judge rules the expert's testimony either probative or prejudicial. Essentially the judge rules that the information is relevant or irrelevant and decides whether it is useful in the trial.

These expert witnesses certainly have their place in a court room if you ask me. Do you think judges are experts at science or the multitudes of other disciplines? That is why psychologists and other experts are useful -- because their input is needed in order to provide the case with relevant information.

And like I said, if the information presented by the expert witness is not relevant then judge will use his discretion and rule it prejudicial/irrelevant to the trial.



--------------------
TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (03/09/14 04:25 PM)

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: XUL]
    #19671882 -

:shrug:

I see everyone taking a side, "this bastard deserves to be tortured and killed" and on tr other side of the fence I see "he's changed and blah blah." I think that it's somewhere in between most likely.

I couldn't judge whether to kill him or save him.
It wouldn't be right of me.


--------------------
...also, go to hell, huh?

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19671885 -

Quote:
Society doesn't have a brain to value with and psychologists and counselors are no better than priests or other shamans.



I do not put too much faith in a your opinion on psychologists and counsellors. The studies are out there showing psychologist can and do help people. Your opinion is flawed because it contradicts what studies show.

zappaisgod said:
You are right that I cannot walk in this man's shoes since I never muredered anybody. Fuck him.  Fry him.


Missing the point..
The various factors that played into this guys life to lead him to be involved in this scenario. It can most always be backtracked to childhood issues, etc. The empathetic reasoning is figuring out why this man chose the path he did and how it can be prevented in the future. It's never as black and white as you tend to make it out to be.

The goal should be rehabilitation, not revenge. Revenge turns you into a bitter person, gnawing away at your being.


--------------------
Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name

Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world?


There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K
Something abut that anaesthetic rush... :inlove:

Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences
The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine
The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #19671905 -

Shamans helped the world long before you were even thought of, son.

Yeah, they got a little sideways but hell, a lot of it works.


--------------------
...also, go to hell, huh?

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: XUL]
    #19671913 -

XUL said:
Quote:
Society doesn't have a brain to value with and psychologists and counselors are no better than priests or other shamans.


Don't forget judges and juries too. They are permitted to use large amounts of discretion in the courts. And you (maybe not) are the jury.

The psychologists, social workers, doctors of any science, or any professional makes up the expert witness population. And the expert witnesses testify on behalf of todays best theories findings and thus the judge rules the expert's testimony either probative or prejudicial. Essentially the judge rules that the information is relevant or irrelevant and decides whether it is useful in the trial.

These expert witnesses certainly have their place in a court room if you ask me. Do you think judges are experts at science or the multitudes of other disciplines? That is why psychologists and other experts are useful -- because their input is needed in order to provide the case with relevant information.

And like I said, if the information presented by the expert witness is not relevant then judge will use his discretion and rule it prejudicial/irrelevant to the trial.




Do you think psychologists are scientists?:lolsy:


--------------------

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #19671932 -

tymoteusz3 said:
Quote:
Society doesn't have a brain to value with and psychologists and counselors are no better than priests or other shamans.



I do not put too much faith in a your opinion on psychologists and counsellors. The studies are out there showing psychologist can and do help people. Your opinion is flawed because it contradicts what studies show.


Right.  There are studies that show priests and shamans help people.  Placebos have also often been shown to be quite effective.
Quote:


zappaisgod said:
You are right that I cannot walk in this man's shoes since I never muredered anybody. Fuck him.  Fry him.


Missing the point..
The various factors that played into this guys life to lead him to be involved in this scenario. It can most always be backtracked to childhood issues, etc. The empathetic reasoning is figuring out why this man chose the path he did and how it can be prevented in the future. It's never as black and white as you tend to make it out to be.


No, you're missing the point.  I really don't give a shit what his excuse is.  Excuses are like assholes.  Everybody has one.
Quote:
The goal should be rehabilitation, not revenge. Revenge turns you into a bitter person, gnawing away at your being.


Actually I find revenge quite soothing.

And while we're at it

FRY MUMIA!


--------------------

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19671951 -

dude made a choice..

he is now suffering the consequences from that choice.


--------------------

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: rackem]
    #19671964 -

Hopefully he won't be suffering much longer.


--------------------

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19672007 -

Quote:
Do you think psychologists are scientists?:lolsy:



Yes, some. This is because one receives either a B.S. or a B.A. during an undergraduate education and a M.S. or a M.A. during graduate education, typically.

You seem to have a narrow view of psychology. Maybe you are thinking school counselor or therapist but I can assure you that there is a wide variety of fields a psychologist may go into. Neuropsychology. Social psychology. Behavioral psychology. The list goes on.

Do you think psychologists just pull ideas out of a hat these days? Maybe Freud did a bit of that but today most ideas are backed up with mathematics, statistics, probabilities, and published results. Furthermore there are standards a researcher has to meet in order for the data to even be relevant. Such as a correlation coefficients of + or - 0.5 or more.

And then you have those individuals who studied biology during their bachelor's degree, neuroscience during their master's degree, and (psychology) cognitive behavioral therapy during doctoral studies. What does that make them?


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Asante]
    #19672032 -

I love how they use dilaudid for lethal injections. It was that with a barbiturate(or was it benzo) and this other chemical but the last chemical was pulled by the company that produces it.

So unless they replaced it its just a downer combo to kill you off. I'd love to see the look on their face as they tried killing an opiate tolerant individual

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: XUL]
    #19672071 -

XUL said:
Quote:
Do you think psychologists are scientists?:lolsy:



Yes, some. This is because one receives either a B.S. or a B.A. during an undergraduate education and a M.S. or a M.A. during graduate education, typically.

You seem to have a narrow view of psychology. Maybe you are thinking school counselor or therapist but I can assure you that there is a wide variety of fields a psychologist may go into. Neuropsychology. Social psychology. Behavioral psychology. The list goes on.

Do you think psychologists just pull ideas out of a hat these days? Maybe Freud did a bit of that but today most ideas are backed up with mathematics, statistics, probabilities, and published results. Furthermore there are standards a researcher has to meet in order for the data to even be relevant. Such as a correlation coefficients of + or - 0.5 or more.

And then you have those individuals who studied biology during their bachelor's degree, neuroscience during their master's degree, and (psychology) cognitive behavioral therapy during doctoral studies. What does that make them?


Well credentialed guessers.


I have a degree in psychology.  It is a BA from 1979.  There was no BS or MS in psych then because they knew social sciences weren't science.  I took as science heavy a curriculum as you could possibly take but it didn't matter  It was a BA.

Now I might accept that there are people doing research in psychology who are actual scientists.  That has absolutely nothing to do with the people who practice psychology for clients and anybody who calls him or herself a counselor.  It is slapdash guesswork.  They are no more effective than priests or other shamans.


--------------------

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19672091 -

Quote:
That has absolutely nothing to do with the people who practice psychology for clients and anybody who calls him or herself a counselor.  It is slapdash guesswork


I wouldn't go that far.

I am sitting next to a stack of books that tell me otherwise and list success rates of certain therapies with references. I can list them but you will either have to buy the book or gain access to a place with published experiments/studies which are the supporting evidence for what the book tells me. I believe the way they track the success of a therapy is through a meta-analysis of many therapies used in controlled settings.

Of course there are always complications with relapse and all, but this is what humanity has to offer at the current time. And from my view the success rates look pretty good.


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: XUL]
    #19672094 -

XUL said:
Quote:
That has absolutely nothing to do with the people who practice psychology for clients and anybody who calls him or herself a counselor.  It is slapdash guesswork


I wouldn't go that far.

I am sitting next to a stack of books that tell me otherwise and list success rates of certain therapies with references. I can list them but you will either have to buy the book or gain access to a place with published experiments/studies which are the supporting evidence for what the book tells me. I believe the way they track the success of a therapy is through a meta-analysis of many therapies used in controlled settings.

Of course there are always complications with relapse and all, but this is what humanity has to offer at the current time. And from my view the success rates look pretty good.


Quote:
Well credentialed guessers.


The same as a judge and maybe not a jury. Hmph...



--------------------
TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (03/09/14 05:26 PM)

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: XUL]
    #19672148 -

XUL said:
Quote:
That has absolutely nothing to do with the people who practice psychology for clients and anybody who calls him or herself a counselor.  It is slapdash guesswork


I wouldn't go that far.

I am sitting next to a stack of books that tell me otherwise and list success rates of certain therapies with references. I can list them but you will either have to buy the book or gain access to a place with published experiments/studies which are the supporting evidence for what the book tells me. I believe the way they track the success of a therapy is through a meta-analysis of many therapies used in controlled settings.

Of course there are always complications with relapse and all, but this is what humanity has to offer at the current time. And from my view the success rates look pretty good.


And I know dozens of people, peers and children, who have gone to see psychologists, often for years, and have received exactly no more relief than people who see priests or wise friends.  The only mental health professionals who, in my experience, have accomplished anything that could not have been accomplished by shamans are psychiatrists and they have a mixed set of results because the prescribing of drugs is also somewhat guesswork as the best of them admit.

Who wrote those books?  Psychologists.


--------------------

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: XUL]
    #19672152 -

When you can't get a girlfriend/boyfriend.

Psychology

:feelsgoodman:


--------------------
http://bunkpolice.com/basic-test-kit/
Vienna Declaration
Salvia Divinorum The Docudrahma

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