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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19671348 -

Prisoner#1 said:
he's a thug, plan and simple


You can't judge a persons character based upon 1 stupid decision, especially when he was only 18.  People are complex, you can't say one way or another based on the little information you know about him.  The nicest, straightest guy I ever knew did some of the worst things you could ever imagine.  Some people make mistakes in the past and work to improve who they are.


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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19671364 -

Prisoner#1 said:
Patlal said:
Here's how I would deal with violent innate that cannot be rehabilitated.

I would put 20 of them at a time in cell surround an arena, give them each a sword, then opening up the cells. Last guy standing recieves food and water (laced with cyanide; but you don't tell em that)



I donjt understand why you'd make it so easy and painless, I've advocated for
a large, deep pit with no weapons, 1000 men go in, none come out


Great idea. The thing is, we don't have all day.


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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Patlal]
    #19671380 -

fapjack said:
Prisoner#1 said:
he's a thug, plan and simple


You can't judge a persons character based upon 1 stupid decision, especially when he was only 18.


of course I can, I just fucking did as did 12 others that we called a jury

Quote:
People are complex, you can't say one way or another based on the little information you know about him.  The nicest, straightest guy I ever knew did some of the worst things you could ever imagine.  Some people make mistakes in the past and work to improve who they are.



really? if someone does the worst things I can imagine are they really a
nice guy? or are you just trying to inform us that you hang out with the
dredgings from the sewers
Patlal said:
Prisoner#1 said:
Patlal said:
Here's how I would deal with violent innate that cannot be rehabilitated.

I would put 20 of them at a time in cell surround an arena, give them each a sword, then opening up the cells. Last guy standing recieves food and water (laced with cyanide; but you don't tell em that)



I donjt understand why you'd make it so easy and painless, I've advocated for
a large, deep pit with no weapons, 1000 men go in, none come out


Great idea. The thing is, we don't have all day.



we have years, they dont have years though, they have a couple of months at best

PPV the highlights


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19671414 -

Quote:
you're right, seems that jasper had it so fucking bad


I am not quite sure I follow you.

Are you being sarcastic?

But yes, he had his own context. And I don't know what it was exactly. I didn't look it up.

Quote:
why did jasper kill his business partner


I don't know.

Quote:
most prisoners dont need to worry about the death penalty and those could
be sent out on farms to serve as free/cheap labor but escape should be met
with a bullet in the back but if they work hard then provide them with
$5/day for that labor to use in the commissary and the balance upon their
release, possibly even reducing the sentence for those that make a real
showing, for some that could be a large chunk of cash to get reestablished
with. those under the death penalty shouldnt be out in public but should be
doing 'in house' work, since they arent making license plates they could be
running any sort of machine to manufacture goods that would help them pay
for their lifelong stay in prison and later in life, their geriatric care


I like some of it.

Quote:
"if you dont work, you dont eat"


I like the idea, but I feel that threatening a prisoner with death is not warranted. First because it seems that operant conditioning could be use here. Instead of threatening the prisoner I feel that it would be wise to give the prisoner the option to change. If you do work you will get more freedoms - but if you do no (or bad) work you will have minimal freedoms. bypassing the threat approach and encouraging work by means of rewards seems to be a positive approach.

Keep in mind that positive approaches might seem silly because all these people in the jails are convicts. But some of them will get out and thus I believe we should not threaten their lives or traumatize them. Some of them can be rehabilitated.

And then there is always wrongful convictions. It is a fact that they do occur and so we, in my opinion, should not threaten prisoners with life and death.

I like some of your ideas but I also like to focus on positive approaches. If prisoners will "inevitably" be released into society then wouldn't you rather have ex-prisoners who has lived in a program that fostered something positive rather than a program that threatened their lives (possibly disgruntling them).


cheaper labor + positive approaches/conditioning


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (03/09/14 02:32 PM)

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19671422 -

He was fighting in Vietnam, war forces you to do horrible shit.  I could give 2 shits less about you judging anyone I know though, you are a prick.


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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: fapjack]
    #19671498 -

XUL said:
Prisoner#1 said:
"if you dont work, you dont eat"


I like the idea, but I feel that threatening a prisoner with death is not warranted. First because it seems that operant conditioning could be use here. Instead of threatening the prisoner I feel that it would be wise to give the prisoner the option to change. If you do work you will get more freedoms - but if you do no (or bad) work you will have minimal freedoms. bypassing the threat approach and encouraging work by means of rewards seems to be a positive approach.



there's no threat, it's a workfare approach, one that seems to work pretty
well, it's simple, if I dont work, I dont eat, no one will feed me and
government isnt giving any handouts to my kind if I dint have a job, so why
should it be any different for prisoners. it's giving them a choice. they
can eat if they work, if they dont work it was their choice to starve
themselves, the food is available they just have to do something to EARN
the food

Quote:
Keep in mind that positive approaches might seem silly because all these people in the jails are convicts. But some of them will get out and thus I believe we should not threaten their lives or traumatize them. Some of them can be rehabilitated.


what positives come from the handout system, that regardless of what you do
or refuse to do that someone will always be there to give you something?
that's precisely the sort of mindset that may have landed him in prison,
his mom was on welfare and got free food and money, she had a baby daddy
that was living on disability, her boyfriend was selling rock and as a
result he saw that you dont have to work to get those needs, he's an
entitled brat of a thug, mommy made sure he had the newest nikes every year
but he didnt earn it, it was gifted just like mommy's pay checks for baby
making... so now we have an entitled thug in prison, someone that didnt
simply threaten someone's life but murdered a man in cold blood over some
electronics and you're saying that we shouldnt withhold food when someone
refuses to get off their ass

Quote:
And then there is always wrongful convictions. It is a fact that they do occur and so we, in my opinion, should not threaten prisoners with life and death.



wouldnt they be dealing with the same sort of life outside of prison? why
should prisoners be given better treatment than the homeless?

Quote:
I like some of your ideas but I also like to focus on positive approaches. If a prisoner will "inevitably" be released into society then wouldn't you rather have a prisoner who has lived in a program that fostered something positive rather than a program that threatened their lives (possibly disgruntling them).


I'm not seeing these negatives, I see positives, first you provide
incentive to work with food and cash, upon release the prisoner could have
thousands with which to buy a car, rent a place to live and live for
several months while he looks for gainful employment, if he refuses to work
then that's on him, it's his choice not to eat by choosing not to work,
it's not a threat, a threat would be telling him he wouldnt be fed
regardless


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19671503 -

Prisoner#1 said:
fapjack said:
I dont reread anything.



it appears you dont actually read anything either


:rimshot:

Accurately done.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: fapjack]
    #19671509 -

fapjack said:
He was fighting in Vietnam, war forces you to do horrible shit.  I could give 2 shits less about you judging anyone I know though, you are a prick.



um... no. UCMJ allows for any soldier to refuse to follow any unlawful order,
that means he didnt have to torture anyone, it means he didnt have to murder
women and children to get information, it means he didnt have to do much of
what he may have done. it also means it was his choice and that doesnt make
him a nice guy.


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Patlal]
    #19671512 -

Patlal said:
Prisoner#1 said:
Patlal said:
Here's how I would deal with violent innate that cannot be rehabilitated.

I would put 20 of them at a time in cell surround an arena, give them each a sword, then opening up the cells. Last guy standing recieves food and water (laced with cyanide; but you don't tell em that)



I donjt understand why you'd make it so easy and painless, I've advocated for
a large, deep pit with no weapons, 1000 men go in, none come out


Great idea. The thing is, we don't have all day.


Sure we do, and a good bit more.

They're in a pit. Where are they going to go?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19671517 -

http://steven-alejandro.kinja.com/a-discussion-of-the-ray-jasper-death-row-issue-from-a-f-1536676452


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: fapjack]
    #19671537 -

fapjack said:
Work for the private sector.  Our nations public infrastructure is more important than paying a bunch of degenerate alcoholic laborers inflated wages to do shit almost anyone that can lift 100 lbs can do.  Also the fact that you pay no money in taxes makes me laugh at the other comment.


contractors get 10 dollars off the books, if they didn't they'd work at miccyDee's or some small business under the table.

hiking min wage to 10.10 is so the gov't can get a dollar back from them lol


--------------------
http://bunkpolice.com/basic-test-kit/
Vienna Declaration
Salvia Divinorum The Docudrahma

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Konyap]
    #19671546 -

You put people in prison to work and I can almost gaurantee people who were otherwise harmless are going to be thrown in to do more work with the privatized prison/communist complex this is disasterous


--------------------
http://bunkpolice.com/basic-test-kit/
Vienna Declaration
Salvia Divinorum The Docudrahma

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Konyap]
    #19671554 -

Illyabo said:
You put people in prison to work and I can almost gaurantee people who were otherwise harmless are going to be thrown in to do more work with the privatized prison/communist complex this is disasterous



people arent put in prison to work, they're put in prison for crimes they've
committed and since 95% of the prisons in the US are state/federally run, it
seems that your argument is invalid in addition to being ridiculous


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19671562 -

ight


--------------------
http://bunkpolice.com/basic-test-kit/
Vienna Declaration
Salvia Divinorum The Docudrahma

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Konyap]
    #19671582 -

i believe he owes a debt to his victim and the victims family. he should do the only honorable thing left to do and end his own life. no one else should undertake the task for him.


--------------------
 

"I'm chilling in a room with a view, there's always room for improvement; so i grab my coat and go and prove it"-Method Man

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19671595 -

Quote:
so why
should it be any different for prisoners.


Because some prisoners are angry already and it doesn't seem wise to further disgruntle them by threatening their food supply and fueling their possible contempt fore society, but rather to rehabilitate them and prepare them for their eventual re-assimilation into society.

Quote:
"if you dont work, you dont eat"


It seems threatening to me. But I am just one person.



Quote:
first you provide incentive


I agree, but I think the manner in which we provide the incentive is very important. Giving prisoners a choice to live or die is truly different than incentive in which the prisoners may either earn freedoms or maintain minimal ones.

Quote:
it's not a threat, a threat would be telling him he wouldnt be fed
regardless



Oh. I thought that is what you meant when you said:

Quote:
"if you dont work, you dont eat"



--------------------
TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (03/09/14 03:23 PM)

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19671596 -

luvdemshrooms said:
Patlal said:
Prisoner#1 said:
I donjt understand why you'd make it so easy and painless, I've advocated for
a large, deep pit with no weapons, 1000 men go in, none come out


Great idea. The thing is, we don't have all day.


Sure we do, and a good bit more.

They're in a pit. Where are they going to go?


Nowhere, but that's not the point. The faster they get it over it, the cheaper it is for society.


--------------------

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Patlal]
    #19671612 -

If prisoners where to labor for food and the prison made money

then wouldn't it have private interest?

Also what would stop a judge from given out the maximum time for each offense?

3 strikes laws are already in consistent as it is.


--------------------
http://bunkpolice.com/basic-test-kit/
Vienna Declaration
Salvia Divinorum The Docudrahma

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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Asante]
    #19671714 -

Quote:
That's like a hobo on the street walking up to you and you ask him for spare change.


That's my favorite tactic when I'm approached by bums. :shrug:


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Re: A Letter from Ray Jasper, who is about to be executed. [Re: Patlal]
    #19671721 -

Patlal said:
luvdemshrooms said:
Patlal said:
Prisoner#1 said:
I donjt understand why you'd make it so easy and painless, I've advocated for
a large, deep pit with no weapons, 1000 men go in, none come out


Great idea. The thing is, we don't have all day.


Sure we do, and a good bit more.

They're in a pit. Where are they going to go?


Nowhere, but that's not the point. The faster they get it over it, the cheaper it is for society.


It is the point. Once they are in the pit, it costs society nothing other than the cost of covering the pit when it's over. That cost is the same if it takes an hour or a month.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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