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InvisibletrendalM
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Intuition
    #1965671 - 09/30/03 12:45 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

What is it?

Do you trust your senses or intuition more?

Can intuition be trusted?

And do you think that, once something is gained through intuition, it can be reasonably "proven" through logical process?

in?tu?i?tion
n.

1.
a.The act or faculty of knowing or sensing without the use of rational processes; immediate cognition. See Synonyms at reason.
b.Knowledge gained by the use of this faculty; a perceptive insight.
2. A sense of something not evident or deducible; an impression.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Intuition [Re: trendal]
    #1966436 - 09/30/03 04:51 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I see intuition as one of the senses. So the answer would be both/none.

I wonder why everyone seems to base their whole world view on evidence.


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: Intuition [Re: trendal]
    #1967913 - 10/01/03 12:16 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

What is it?
A feeling based on previous experience, perhaps?

Do you trust your senses or intuition more?
I kind of am inclined to think that intuition is a form of sense... but if it came down to, would I trust my eyes or my gut intution... is it in a situation regarding a person or a thing?

And do you think that, once something is gained through intuition, it can be reasonably "proven" through logical process?
Heh, well.. not for me as my intuition is usually only marginally explainable and mostly felt.





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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Intuition [Re: Alan Stone]
    #1967915 - 10/01/03 12:17 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I find my intuition to be rarely wrong especially when it comes to other people's natures. I used to not listen to it and get screwed over by people all the time. You could argue that it is about expectation and the self-fulfilling prophesy which seems to work in relationships as one 'positioning' by one person can create a complimentary position in the other eg. submissive/dominant and v.v. (or not, you're intuition may be correct). But in that situation you are still better off to trust your intuition, because you still might get screwed over.

I have had proof of this on a number of occasions. Eg. I used to have a flatmate who used to like to use intimidation eg. door slamming rather than communication. He used to leave nitpicking notes around the place all the time. Anyway once I had had to go to hospital urgently in the night and I left the telephone book up one end of the house so as not to disturb him by putting the telephone book back. And sure enough he had left a rude note in morning about the telephone book not being along with a few other things. Anyway I had returned home with my mother who read the book and wrote a similar rude note back on my behalf after searching the house for a few non-significant smallsy things to pick on him about about. While this might be taken in a semi-reasonable fashion by most, my intuition, knowing my flatmate, was that it was a bad idea. Sure enough my flatmate came home drunk that night, and came to my room in the outdoor studio and tried to kick my door in and yelled abuse and tried to undo the lock! I was out of there the next day. But better to have trusted my intuition than the situation er potentiated.


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"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Intuition [Re: enotake2]
    #1968040 - 10/01/03 12:57 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Intuition is like a sword

It can only be trusted if it is correctly balanced and finely honed.



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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Intuition [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1968061 - 10/01/03 01:03 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)


"Intuition is like a sword

It can only be trusted if it is correctly balanced and finely honed. "

Definately, I agree. Worth honing though - I think you have to keep asking yourself how you feel about things, and have the courage to act on your feelings.



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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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Anonymous

Re: Intuition [Re: enotake2]
    #1968540 - 10/01/03 03:51 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Intuition, or "the clear cold light of pure reason" is , as i see it, the apex of intellect. "Intelligence" in its multi-farious forms can only take us so far. I learnt a lot from Huxley in this respect, if any of you have read the doors of perception&heaven and hell you,ll know that im referring to his idea of "technicization" broadly considered. Not that we dont keep evolving and getting smarter, but is the kind of "intelligence" that builds&design weapons etc really necessary? I think the brightest sparks amongst us, become intuitive.
Not that i know it all, i just read a lot, and in my old age rely on my intuition more than my intelligence. Either that, or im completely insane and have taken too many shrooms over the years.  :wink:


Edited by Anonymous (10/01/03 04:06 AM)


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Intuition [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1969485 - 10/01/03 02:54 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

When I say "senses" I am refering ro the 5 classical senses (sight/sound/smell/touch/taste).

I do believe that intuition is a form of "sense" of it's own, but I think it comes from the mind rather than from external input.

I have learned to trust my intuition, even when I can't explain it.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Intuition [Re: trendal]
    #1969517 - 10/01/03 03:05 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

In computer neural networks there is a term called grandmothering.  This happens when a neural network learns an input set too well can can no longer interpret similiar data that it hasn't seen before.  To me this has always felt similiar to instinct; things like being afraid of spiders for no reason, etc.

On the opposite end, when a neural network is properly trained, it can produce a correct output based on input which is only similiar to what it has seen before.  To me this is similiar to intuition.

Perhaps intuition is simply the unconsious mind identifing patterns that it has seen before and recalling the outcome of those past events.  When the outcome filters up to the conscious mind, we perserve if as likely outcome, but are unable to see how the mind arrived at that conclusion.  We would also be blind to the actual inputs that the unconscious mind used to arrive at its verdict.

A good example:

I used to drive between my home town and my college every few weeks.  The trip was about a two hour drive along a major interstate.  The trip was very boring and I tended to drive rather quickly to get it over with... quick enough that the police would have given me a speeding ticket had I ever been caught.

On one of the trips, I noticed that I would sometimes slow down and a few seconds later a cop would come up over a hill from the opposite direction.  There was no way I could know a cop was going to be there.  I started paying attention and noticed that this happened almost every single time a cop was coming.  I never did get a speading ticket.  :smile:

Was this some kind of esp-out-of-body-hockey-pokey, or something else.  Perhaps the police drive so that there is a common distance between them... so that they don't bunch up and part of my mind keyed in on the timing.  Perhaps part of my mind noticed other cars in the distance slowing down.  I doubt the esp-hockey-pokey explaination, but I have no idea what it was that my mind had keyed in on that identified a cop coming.  My friends noticed that I had an uncanny ability to function as a cop detector and called the 'ability' copdar (short for cop-radar).  Only one friend of mine ever got a speeding ticket when I was in the car with them, and only because he didn't slow down when I told him a cop was going to be up ahead somewhere.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Intuition [Re: trendal]
    #1969752 - 10/01/03 05:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Intuition is your higher self... whispering into your mind..


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Intuition [Re: trendal]
    #2067297 - 11/03/03 07:23 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I think intuition is pretty much quick thinking, and therefore varies from person to person just as much as our personalities and other aspects of our minds do. It's just like using a pachinko machine in our head to come up with a conclusion, rather than thinking something out logically. It still depends on yours and my knowledge though, as the frame of our pachinko machines. get me?


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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: Intuition [Re: RedNucleus]
    #2067354 - 11/03/03 08:30 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I think it simply your mind pickup lots and lots of information that your not even aware of and when needed your sub-concious suddenly arranges it all based on past experience and forces it in to conciouss thourght.


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Intuition [Re: EvilGir]
    #2067387 - 11/03/03 08:56 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

yeah, different way of saying the same thing. I was thinking that but it's late and i'm tired.


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OfflineSoHei
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Re: Intuition [Re: EvilGir]
    #2067408 - 11/03/03 09:08 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I believe that intuition is more a colaberation of the senses than a serperate one outright. For me, when my intuition is telling me something if you look at it afterwards and break it down it can usualy be attributed to a very quiet noise or something along those lines. Sometimes there is just no explanation which can be a bit of a headfuck. My problem is that i have no faith in it, and it always seems to be right, ill just say "no im being stupid, how could i know that" then soon enough it will happen, which will leave me kicking myself later, especially when there are implications.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Intuition [Re: SoHei]
    #2067702 - 11/03/03 12:35 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I agree with what seuss is saying

During games of chess, grandmasters will often make moves that seem unusual but are turning points in a game. When asked why they made such moves, they are at a loss to explain. It is just your unconscious picking up on something and telling you to do it.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Intuition [Re: SoHei]
    #2067717 - 11/03/03 12:41 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

You can actually "train" your intuition, IMHO.
Sometimes, I wonder if your intuitional senses are largely active, selectively, on what exactly is mainly occupying your mind, whether subconscious or conscious, and acts on that.
For example, when you learn a new word, you tend to see it EVERY where all of the sudden....or Like Suess's example...
Could it be that because he had "better watch out for cops" in the back of his head, that his Intuition acted on specifically that?
But, I suppose you could test it on anything yourself.
I'm sure yall are smart enough to come up with various ways to test this thesis.
SO, if this IS true, then of course...just imagine the possiblities! :smile:
 


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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Re: Intuition [Re: trendal]
    #2068036 - 11/03/03 03:15 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

"What is it"
Intuition is lessons learned about the external world on an emotional level - emotional learning.

If I spend alot of time with a particular thing I get a particularly good intuition for it.
Intuition can be thought of Generally as the sum of emotionally learned feelings one gets from the outside world. Emotional learning is not conscious most of the time, but is ALAWAYS happening. A person can be afraid and not know why exactly, A person can walk into a seemingly normal house and get a bad vibe from it somehow.
Intuition can be thought of in two ways,

1.)As Emotionally learned responses to input that doesnt necessarily carry with it intellectual information or
2)Complex emotionally learned responses that comes from having lots of experience with something.(whether that something be computers, mathematics or life in general).

"Do you trust your senses or intuition more?"

The senses and intellect SHOULD take priority over intution, but intuition is there for a reason and is immensly usefull. Intuition is deeply related to emotion in general, and no intelligent decesion can be made without it. Sometimes...Intuition is all you have...

Intuition CAN and does turn on you however.

"And do you think that, once something is gained through intuition, it can be reasonably "proven" through logical process?"

Absolutely! Without it, there would be no real progress. Intuition is the appendage that we stick out into the unknown to see what truths lie there.


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Invisiblequestioning
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Re: Intuition [Re: David_Scape]
    #2068101 - 11/03/03 03:45 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i trust my intuition before i trust reason.

For example- a kid IMed me from another board, asking for a ride to a show. I was all for it, and talked to him on the phone, figured our plans out. Then as soon as i hung up, my stomach was in a knot. I didn't want to bring him for some reason. I called him back right away and backed out. Ever since then, he's imed me constantly asking me questions that 'normal' people don't ask, in a harrassing way, and altho we've never met, i've seen a picture of him, and he's been following me at every show i've gone to beginning with the show he wanted a ride to.. I mean, i'll dart around the room, and turn around, and he's RIGHT behind me, constantly. I'm glad i never allowed him in my car. I never want to be alone with this person to find out how weird he really is.

Was my reason for backing out logical? no. I had no reason to believe i shouldn't bring him. That's why my intuition stepped in, to make up for the lack of reason.


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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Re: Intuition [Re: questioning]
    #2068174 - 11/03/03 04:24 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

You didnt need a logical reason. You had a perfectly good emotional one.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Intuition [Re: David_Scape]
    #2068271 - 11/03/03 05:22 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not sure about intuition being emotional decision...

For instance, how could emotion make a decision over how to fix a motor, or debug a computer program? These don't seem like things that I could possibly use emotion for, but these are things that I very regularly use my intuition for.


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