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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19650294 -

zappaisgod said:
Patlal said:
Aedan said:
Government involvement in the healthcare system is what caused the higher costs from the beginning. If free market principles were applied to healthcare it would be cheaper and higher quality.


Every other country that has universal healthcare have lower costs than the US. Explain that?


Are you paying?  Are you ever going to mind your own business or are you just trying to drag us down to the level of Canada, who's citizens flee to get treatment in the US?


I guess you never saw the documentary where they were
going to Cuba to get their several hundred dollar
prescriptions for pennies. Silly Americans.

Don't be jelly.

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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: Aedan]
    #19650700 -

Aedan said:
Government involvement in the healthcare system is what caused the higher costs from the beginning. If free market principles were applied to healthcare it would be cheaper and higher quality.


Yes, and we can return to the days where insurance would drop people when they become seriously ill (which is obviously  God's punishment and they deserve to die) and gut Medicare and Medicaid because they benefit old and poor people and that's that's socialism. Besides, old people are useless and need to be eliminated and poor people are morally deficient and need to die. It's their own fault anyway for being poor. Not to mention this takes money away from the wealthy, and that's a very bad thing. But maybe the Free Market fairies will magically cure them if they repent their sins and come to Jesus.

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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: qman]
    #19650785 -

qman said:
"If free market principles were applied to healthcare"

That's a big "if", the fact of the matter is there's never going to be "free market" principles in the health care industry, that's theoretical land and nothing more.


Well as long as people buy into the socialist progressive nanny state garbage yeah it's not going to happen. Instead of solving the real problem with high costs in healthcare we get Obamacare which will really only make everything worse. And then it will fail and we will have a single payer monopolized system with rationed and poor quality service.

Lets just continue to fuck everything up and then only address the symptoms of that problem and keep digging a bigger hole. Problem reaction solution. Obey. The government loves you.

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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #19650897 -

ToiletDuk said:
Yes, and we can return to the days where insurance would drop people when they become seriously ill (which is obviously  God's punishment and they deserve to die) and gut Medicare and Medicaid because they benefit old and poor people and that's that's socialism. Besides, old people are useless and need to be eliminated and poor people are morally deficient and need to die. It's their own fault anyway for being poor. Not to mention this takes money away from the wealthy, and that's a very bad thing. But maybe the Free Market fairies will magically cure them if they repent their sins and come to Jesus.


Uh... K...

Back in the day health care was so cheap people didn't need insurance. We don't need the government to take care of old people. In most societies people's children would take care of them when they got older. And hopefully they would have saved enough money in their lifetime to afford care in their elderly years.

Poor people are poor because we have a rigged economy. We don't need more welfare we need more competition and more jobs.

People in unfortunate situations where they couldn't take care of themselves would be helped by wealthy humanitarian individuals. Or they would be picked off by natural selection. Whatever.

What the fuck is up with the nanny state mentality of everyone. It's discusting. As if people are inherently too stupid or immoral to be able to take care of themselves and one another. No we don't need the government to dictate how our money should be distributed. Big brother doesn't need to hold your hand throughout your life.

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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: Aedan]
    #19650967 -

Back in the day, you didn't have treatments and surgeries that cost as much as your house, you would just die.
Back in the day, if you didn't save for retirement, once you got old you were destitute, and would just die.
Back in the day, if you were poor, you were in rags and starved, and would just die.

Some people care about their fellow man and act to raise all people up instead of just their own selfish desires. That you would have us live like wolves is what is disgusting, hell that's not even being fair to the wolves.
Aedan said:
As if people are inherently too stupid or immoral to be able to take care of themselves and one another.


What is it that you think the government is trying to do??? It's just a group of people trying to take care of themselves and one another :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: Lynnch]
    #19650986 -

No the majority of government is actually a group of people who want to seize power and control the population for their own interests. And they don't give a fuck about you.

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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: Lynnch]
    #19650992 -

Lynnch said:
Let's not forget what the public said at the ballot box of 2012.


Let's not.  They said they didn't like Romney


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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: Aedan]
    #19651016 -

Aedan said:
No the majority of government is actually a group of people who want to seize power and control the population for their own interests. And they don't give a fuck about you.


By this I mean the upper echelons btw. Most of the low level minions are actually people with good intentions.

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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #19651017 -

ToiletDuk said:
Aedan said:
Government involvement in the healthcare system is what caused the higher costs from the beginning. If free market principles were applied to healthcare it would be cheaper and higher quality.


Yes, and we can return to the days where insurance would drop people when they become seriously ill (which is obviously  God's punishment and they deserve to die) and gut Medicare and Medicaid because they benefit old and poor people and that's that's socialism. Besides, old people are useless and need to be eliminated and poor people are morally deficient and need to die. It's their own fault anyway for being poor. Not to mention this takes money away from the wealthy, and that's a very bad thing. But maybe the Free Market fairies will magically cure them if they repent their sins and come to Jesus.


Insurance companies could  not po that in my state as long as you paid the premiums and Obamacare does gut medicare and medicaid.  We had a program for the poor.  Why did we need Obamacare to take care of the poor if we already had a program for that?That argument is bullshit.

Obamacare is an expasnion of the welfare state and government control over your health decisions.  Are you not adult enough for those responsibilities yourself?


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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: Aedan]
    #19651022 -

Aedan said:
Aedan said:
No the majority of government is actually a group of people who want to seize power and control the population for their own interests. And they don't give a fuck about you.


By this I mean the upper echelons btw. Most of the low level minions are actually people with good intentions.


I don't think so.  Think Department of Motor Vehicles.  They are just out to preserve their paycheck.


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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: Aedan]
    #19651084 -

Quote:
Aedan said:... Back in the day health care was so cheap people didn't need insurance...


What day was this?:rolleyes:

Quote:
...People in unfortunate situations where they couldn't take care of themselves would be helped by wealthy humanitarian individuals...


Thank you  Mr. :monopoly:  Man!! (more :rolleyes:)

Quote:
Or they would be picked off by natural selection. Whatever.


:waits:  4  :death: ...:goodnight: . . . :peace:


--------------------

"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ...
  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:

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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: Aedan]
    #19651207 -

Aedan said:
Uh... K...

Back in the day health care was so cheap people didn't need insurance. We don't need the government to take care of old people. In most societies people's children would take care of them when they got older. And hopefully they would have saved enough money in their lifetime to afford care in their elderly years.


Well, for starters, healthcare was cheaper in times past. However, paying $20 for a doctors visit was a major expenditure in the 1930's. Even then, many didn't seek medical attention for more serious illnesses because it would have been too expensive, And while it was true that families took care of sick older relatives, life expectancy was much lower than it is today, so often it was wasn't needed. But even it was, it was quite a burden on the family.

Quote:
Poor people are poor because we have a rigged economy. We don't need more welfare we need more competition and more jobs.


If by rigged, you mean good paying jobs were imported overseas to in order to cut costs of greedy corporations, then you are correct. Such jobs would indeed decrease the need for welfare, but good jobs are few and far between these days. Now here's a shocker; more government spending would definitely stimulate the economy. And guess who proved it? Your idols Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Quote:
People in unfortunate situations where they couldn't take care of themselves would be helped by wealthy humanitarian individuals. Or they would be picked off by natural selection. Whatever.



Well, not so much. In the past, people with retardation, severe mental illness, etc. were warehoused in large institutions undergoing incredibly inhumane conditions and just largely forgotten. Yes, some wealthy individuals tried to help, but they were the exception, not the rule. Not only do you overestimate the altruism of wealthy people (most wealthy people didn't get to be rich by being nice people), you also seem to believe in a past that never existed.

Quote:
What the fuck is up with the nanny state mentality of everyone. It's discusting. As if people are inherently too stupid or immoral to be able to take care of themselves and one another. No we don't need the government to dictate how our money should be distributed. Big brother doesn't need to hold your hand throughout your life.


Many folks do try to take care of others, such as churches and food banks. As it is, they've being overwhelmed. Unfortunately, many of those that could provide more help are too selfish to do so. These days, greed is good. It astounds me that corporations can pay their CEO's millions, while they have no qualms about reducing the labor force to cut costs.

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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #19651257 -

The CEOs are talent.  Consider them the professional athlete.  Very few can do their job.  The clubhouse guy is not talent.  Any one of millions can do his job.  That is why the players and CEOs get the money and the grunts don't.  Market forces.


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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19651302 -

zappaisgod said:
Obamacare is an expasnion of the welfare state and government control over your health decisions.  Are you not adult enough for those responsibilities yourself?


That is fucking retarded. Improved access and better service has nothing to do with how 'adult' people are. Seriously, what the fuck are you going on about? Right-wing nonsense. If anything the bill allows more people to make the responsible choice and get coverage.

Cry about it for whatever made up reason you want, but the simple fact is that people are signing up and getting coverage where before the act they were unable to. That is what the act is about, and it has been successful.
--
The ceo's make more because of their talent, sure fine whatever. The argument is over whether they should make 1,000,000 to 1 more than the average worker that they to rely on. That the cause of so many issues is how disproportionate that pay is.

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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19651356 -

zappaisgod said:
The CEOs are talent.  Consider them the professional athlete.  Very few can do their job.  The clubhouse guy is not talent.  Any one of millions can do his job.  That is why the players and CEOs get the money and the grunts don't.  Market forces.


Well sure, I don't dispute that. It does take exceptional talent to run a company. And he should be well-compensated. But  100's of millions, plus generous benefits, etc? I find that a wee bit excessive.

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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: Lynnch]
    #19651510 -

Lynnch said:
zappaisgod said:
Obamacare is an expasnion of the welfare state and government control over your health decisions.  Are you not adult enough for those responsibilities yourself?


That is fucking retarded. Improved access and better service has nothing to do with how 'adult' people are. Seriously, what the fuck are you going on about? Right-wing nonsense. If anything the bill allows more people to make the responsible choice and get coverage.


Bullshit.  For many people health insurance is a stupid choice.  I believe most of the people signing up for this piece of shit are getting subsidies.  Taxpayer tit.  Welfare.
Quote:
Cry about it for whatever made up reason you want, but the simple fact is that people are signing up and getting coverage where before the act they were unable to. That is what the act is about, and it has been successful.


I suspect you will never get a fact correct

http://dailycaller.com/2014/01/27/fewer-people-have-health-insurance-now-than-in-2009/

Quote:
The percentage of Americans with health insurance has dropped from 84 percent in 2009 to 83.8 percent in 2014, according to a report by Gallup issued the day before President Obama’s State of the Union speech.

The 0.2 point drop means that roughly 600,000 people have lost insurance amid the lousy economy that has prevailed during  Obama’s tenure.

The number means that four years after the Democrats birthed the Obamacare network, the percentage of people without insurance is still below the level seen during President George. W. Bush’s second term.



Quote:
--
The ceo's make more because of their talent, sure fine whatever. The argument is over whether they should make 1,000,000 to 1 more than the average worker that they to rely on. That the cause of so many issues is how disproportionate that pay is.


They don't make that much more but if their employer wants to pay it is none of your business.  Only 2.5% of the population is more than two standard deviations above the mean.  Almost everybody is mediocre at best.  Of those top 2.5% very few are willing to put in the hundred hour work weeks necessary to rise.

They deserve to get paid every nickel their employer is willing to give them.  They are exceptional.


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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #19651515 -

ToiletDuk said:
zappaisgod said:
The CEOs are talent.  Consider them the professional athlete.  Very few can do their job.  The clubhouse guy is not talent.  Any one of millions can do his job.  That is why the players and CEOs get the money and the grunts don't.  Market forces.


Well sure, I don't dispute that. It does take exceptional talent to run a company. And he should be well-compensated. But  100's of millions, plus generous benefits, etc? I find that a wee bit excessive.


When you buy stock you can express your views at the shareholders' meeting.  All you need is one stock


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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19651535 -

Hm, true. I may actually consider that for future use.

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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: Lynnch]
    #19651744 -

Lynnch said:
zappaisgod said:
Obamacare is an expasnion of the welfare state and government control over your health decisions.  Are you not adult enough for those responsibilities yourself?


That is fucking retarded. Improved access and better service has nothing to do with how 'adult' people are. Seriously, what the fuck are you going on about? Right-wing nonsense. If anything the bill allows more people to make the responsible choice and get coverage.

Cry about it for whatever made up reason you want, but the simple fact is that people are signing up and getting coverage where before the act they were unable to. That is what the act is about, and it has been successful.
--
The ceo's make more because of their talent, sure fine whatever. The argument is over whether they should make 1,000,000 to 1 more than the average worker that they to rely on. That the cause of so many issues is how disproportionate that pay is.



Obamacare has hardly been a success.
If it was a success the democrats would be running on it for the next elections.
Instead they are fleeing that sinking ship like the rats they are.

The reason people bought into the whole healthcare lie was just that. A LIE.
you can keep your healthcare plan and your doctor.


--------------------
"A politician is like a baby's diaper, it should be changed often and for the same reason"-Coy Turner Sr.

"what is a weed, a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered"--Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I'm sippin Hennessy, riding on my muthafucking enemies" -Meek Mill.


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Re: Obamacare's Latest Waiver - Fixing the Politics for Democrats Facing Tough Election Prospects... [Re: Patlal]
    #19651771 -

You're out of your element Donny, stick to Canadia

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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