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Offlinedaimyo
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Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance
    #5777130 - 06/21/06 04:41 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You'd think that after 6 years of one of the worst administrations in the history of the United States of America, the Dems would have a sure thing coming. Not hardly.

The foremost reason they will not gain many(if any) seats in congress is their rabid attack on the second amendment. Everyone I know that shoots says this issue is in their top three. Most say it's number one. Half of the households in the US have a gun owner. Simply, if you're against firearms, you lose a lot of votes.

Like drugs, as Americans see that the lies they've been fed about guns and violence are unfounded, they become more accepting of them. Firearms are used 1.5-2.5 million times a year in self-defense. In an increasingly unstable country(and world) people want to be able to protect themselves. Just look at the total breakdown and failure of safety in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina.

If the Democrats want to have a chance at winning, they're going to have to back off gun control. It's just not going to help them at all. There are many more serious problems facing this country that should be on the forefront.


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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Invisiblelsdandfrisbee
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: daimyo]
    #5777169 - 06/21/06 04:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Im so liberal I say let the homos get married.


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Invisiblelsdandfrisbee
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: lsdandfrisbee]
    #5777180 - 06/21/06 04:56 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Sorry that was off-topic. My whole family is strong Democrat. We even went to Bush's first inauguration just to see Slick Willy.

The Republicans motto,"Protect the rich, fuck the poor."

I hate the Republican stand on every issue. Dammit I'am gonna stop before I write out 5 pages on why I hate Republicans.


Edited by lsdandfrisbee (06/21/06 04:57 PM)


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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: lsdandfrisbee]
    #5777191 - 06/21/06 05:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Write it out. I hate both(in their current state of stupidity), and am always looking for new reasons to bash either.


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: daimyo]
    #5777210 - 06/21/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It has already been said that in the case of bird flu they would confiscate guns. What does bird flu have to do with guns i dont know.

Or what about Delta Force,Police,UN,Army already training in simulated gun confiscations?

Both parties suck. Bush is a trojan horse when it comes to gun control


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: daimyo]
    #5777225 - 06/21/06 05:13 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

What "rabid attack" are you talking about? While it's true that Democrats generally tend to support gun control more than the Republicans do, I haven't heard any Democrats making a bunch of noise about it lately. Those that do make it an issue in their campaigns will probably be those whose constituents share their views.


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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: daimyo]
    #5777229 - 06/21/06 05:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

The problem with the democrats is they are defined by their supposed difference from the republicans. And when you have a political party defined almost entirely by what they're not, with very little focus on what they are, you have a weak and inefficacious group of ninnies not worth voting for.


--------------------
Happiness is a warm gun...


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: lsdandfrisbee]
    #5777235 - 06/21/06 05:17 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lsdandfrisbee said:
Sorry that was off-topic. My whole family is strong Democrat. We even went to Bush's first inauguration just to see Slick Willy.

The Republicans motto,"Protect the rich, fuck the poor."

I hate the Republican stand on every issue. Dammit I'am gonna stop before I write out 5 pages on why I hate Republicans.




Unfortunately, this post almost exactly encapsulizes why the Democrats don't stand a chance in the near future.

Simply put: "Bush Sucks!" is NOT a platform.

It is not enough to simply say "Vote for us 'cause the other guys are wrong" we have to know what you're going to do in office. Louis Black, one of my favorite comedians put it best with the quote "The Democrats are a party of no ideas, the Republicans are a party of bad ideas,"

The fact of the matter is, people don't like what GWB is doing, that's clear from opinion polls. But the democrats have never said what they're going to do differently.

Look at any major issue: Iraq, the Democrats say the Republican's plan is horrible, but they don't advance their own plan. Even core democrats don't support an immediate pullout, though the hardliners do, meaning the party has no consensus on a timeline or a plan. It's really easy to say "Oh that's a bad idea" when you don't have a better one.

The economy's going very well, so it's hard to believe the Democrats have big plans to improve it.

So, the question becomes, why should I vote for the Democrats? Simply because they "don't suck" as much as the Republicans isn't enough, because I just don't know what they'll do when they get into office. Since they haven't enumerated their own plan, they might make the situation in Iraq worse. Saying that they can't ruin our image any more than it already is might not be true either, Al Queda was built during Clinton's Presidency, not GWBs.

Until the Democrats start telling America what they ARE going to do, instead of just what they ARE NOT going to do, there's little reason to vote for them.

Just my $.02

Edit: Exactly what unbeliever said, but more long winded


Edited by Economist (06/21/06 05:18 PM)


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: lsdandfrisbee]
    #5777301 - 06/21/06 05:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lsdandfrisbee said:
Sorry that was off-topic. My whole family is strong Democrat. We even went to Bush's first inauguration just to see Slick Willy.

The Republicans motto,"Protect the rich, fuck the poor."

I hate the Republican stand on every issue. Dammit I'am gonna stop before I write out 5 pages on why I hate Republicans.




Congratulations, you've been trained well by your party. I'm sure you're content to do whatever they tell you.

Here's some free advice though:
extreme left and extreme right are both extreme wrong.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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OfflineClammyJoe
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Konnrade]
    #5777313 - 06/21/06 05:52 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Hey lets all vote for a 3rd party! Just kidding, Everyone knows whats best and knows that both parties are wrong, but on election day, you'll vote for either Evil or Stupidity, and 3rd party will be again overlooked. Oh well, this country has used most of my patience anyway, I'm gonna leave.


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Offlinemellowrubberduck
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Konnrade]
    #5777329 - 06/21/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Neither side is perfect, especially when it comes to far-left and far-right. Voting is pretty much picking what you think is the lesser of two evils. Although I don't agree with everything that Bush has done/is doing, I'm glad we picked someone who can make up their mind. I'm not too great with politics so I'm not going to debate on policies and other shit or even defend Bush, because it's not going to change the presidency.

I've been seeing over the past couple years that the Democrats really aren't going to win by numbers, so they're going to try to bully their way into office, by picking up special interest groups and picking up anybody else that even slightly disagrees with the Republicans.


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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: ClammyJoe]
    #5777332 - 06/21/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TheMadConductor said:
Hey lets all vote for a 3rd party! Just kidding, Everyone knows whats best and knows that both parties are wrong, but on election day, you'll vote for either Evil or Stupidity, and 3rd party will be again overlooked. Oh well, this country has used most of my patience anyway, I'm gonna leave.




3rd party support has got to start at the local level. Prez elections are only once every 4 years but you have multiple opportunities every year to vote in elections at the city, state, district, etc level. Make use of it. Be active in promoting the 3rd party of your choice, volunteer your time and money to support their campaigns, etc. There is way more to do than just bitch and whine about the presidential elections every four years.


--------------------
Happiness is a warm gun...


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: ClammyJoe]
    #5777334 - 06/21/06 05:58 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I've got no qualms with voting third party... I don't consider it throwing my vote away.

It's the idiots who are afraid to vote third party that are throwing away votes.

Someone should start a movement to encourage people to vote third party... not for any specific third party, just one of them.

Perhaps if the dominant parties realize it's not just a 2-party race, they'll start being more interested in american interests instead of their own interests.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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OfflineClammyJoe
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: unbeliever]
    #5777341 - 06/21/06 05:59 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Shittt, you mean its all on my shoulders to get the ball rolling? Why doesn't everyone else just see the problem and we can all collectively fix it? We need to set up a nice centralist party.


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Invisiblelsdandfrisbee
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Konnrade]
    #5778290 - 06/21/06 09:42 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Trained by my party? I have my own mind and think for myself so I don't think that happened. Democrat is the party I chose and feel most strongly about.

No strong Libertarians yet.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: lsdandfrisbee]
    #5778410 - 06/21/06 10:17 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

If you blindly hate republicans, then you're the perfect pawn for democrats, who have just as many flaws as republicans do, just in the opposite direction.

Example, I would never trust the environment to a hardcore republican, and I would never trust tax dollars to a hardcore democrat. Both of them would be likely to fuck up in those respective areas.

Some republicans take damn good stances. If you think they're all just out to serve the rich, then you've been horribly misled by the democrats that you've chosen to put your trust in. That beleif is akin to the schoolchildren in soviet russia who beleived it when they were told that capitalists were evil, selfish pigs that are out to destroy them.

Keep in mind that both parties are wrong about a lot of things. When voting, it's not about the party, it's about the politician. And the best candidates are usually the ones whose stance is a combination of policies from both sides.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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Invisiblelsdandfrisbee
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Konnrade]
    #5778840 - 06/22/06 12:00 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I see what you are saying, but I'am afraid I dont agree with you.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: lsdandfrisbee]
    #5779028 - 06/22/06 12:49 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

fair enough


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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InvisibleGnuBobo
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Konnrade]
    #5779107 - 06/22/06 01:15 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I don't understand why people are concerned with democrats.  Granted, they're far less Janus-faced than the republicans.  But, the democrats get compromised by trying to stay "relevant" and so they have no balls.  The republicans--though I do allow there are some good, honest people of that persuasion--are so clearly more corrupt and unwilling to look at science...it's a big mess.

I mean, there is a direct correlation between so-called "liberal" ideals and the amount of education one has.  And "conservatives" get pissy because the universities in America are "biased" toward a "liberal" inclination. 

Maybe the conservative-thinking people could actually bring themselves up by their bootstraps rather than telling other people to do so. 

Whatever you think about Clinton--he came out of dirt-poor Arkansas. 

Bush?  How many millions did he have funding failure after failure in his adult life?  He's got more stilts than a Louisiana coastline holiday house. 

NOW we get no change in the federal minimum wage. 

WHERE THE FUCK IS THE COMPASSION FROM THESE PEOPLE?  YOU'RE SO HIGH ON JESUS, WHY NOT LIVE THAT SHIT, YOU PIECES OF FUCKING MONEY-CHANGER INVALIDS.  :mad:


--------------------
Jerry Garcia. JERRY GARCIA! JERRY GARCIA!!!!


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: GnuBobo]
    #5779455 - 06/22/06 03:16 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Nicely put, Bobo. :congrats:


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: GnuBobo]
    #5779456 - 06/22/06 03:16 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

That was a damn good tirade.

I liked this line:
Quote:

He's got more stilts than a Louisiana coastline holiday house.




Good stuff :thumbup:


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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Offlineredrum187
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Konnrade]
    #5779776 - 06/22/06 07:37 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

fuck em both

www.lp.org


--------------------
Reality is wrong. Dreams are for real.
-Tupac Shakur


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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: daimyo]
    #5779817 - 06/22/06 08:13 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I don't really get the argument that guns make people safer.

If everyone carried a firearm at all times, would the world be a safer place?

I for one wouldn't feel very safe if everyone in a 50 meter radius had the ability to instantly kill me.


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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Konnrade]
    #5779821 - 06/22/06 08:14 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
That beleif is akin to the schoolchildren in soviet russia who beleived it when they were told that capitalists were evil, selfish pigs that are out to destroy them.




That wasn't true?


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OfflineClammyJoe
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: OJK]
    #5779855 - 06/22/06 08:59 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Odiumjunkie said:
I don't really get the argument that guns make people safer.

If everyone carried a firearm at all times, would the world be a safer place?

I for one wouldn't feel very safe if everyone in a 50 meter radius had the ability to instantly kill me.




Awwww but everybody else in the 50 meter radius could kill them as well. Would someone be so quick to mess with you, if he knew you had a gun? and he knew everyone you where with had a gun?


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: ClammyJoe]
    #5779902 - 06/22/06 09:25 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, since mutually assured destruction worked so well for nukes... :rolleyes:


--------------------
:orly:



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OfflineClammyJoe
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5779907 - 06/22/06 09:27 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Heh, just brings on a lot of tension - keeps everyone in check. No deaths. We are doomed as a race as long as we let goverments rule over us the way do anyway. SOooooo lets overthrow.


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OfflineHarvestTheBrain
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: redrum187]
    #5779923 - 06/22/06 09:31 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

redrum187 said:
fuck em both




my stance too, anyone that gets far in politics is a dirty shit ball in some way shape or form


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: ClammyJoe]
    #5779931 - 06/22/06 09:33 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Let's overthrow? Plan?


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:orly:



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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: ClammyJoe]
    #5779939 - 06/22/06 09:36 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TheMadConductor said:
Quote:

Odiumjunkie said:
I don't really get the argument that guns make people safer.

If everyone carried a firearm at all times, would the world be a safer place?

I for one wouldn't feel very safe if everyone in a 50 meter radius had the ability to instantly kill me.




Awwww but everybody else in the 50 meter radius could kill them as well. Would someone be so quick to mess with you, if he knew you had a gun? and he knew everyone you where with had a gun?




You really think this makes people safer? You don't think everyone having more or less instant power of life or death over everyone around them at all times is a bad idea?

If people were cold, calculating, logical, intelligent and sensible, the yes, perhaps it would make people safer. Unfortunately, if people were cold, calculating, logical, intelligent and sensible, they wouldn't be people.


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: OJK]
    #5779943 - 06/22/06 09:37 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

But if the people don't have guns, the government would be the only ones. Therefore I support freedom to own guns.


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:orly:



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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: daimyo]
    #5779979 - 06/22/06 09:53 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Everyone needs to vote Libertarian if they know what is good for them.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5779990 - 06/22/06 09:58 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Microcosmatrix said:
Yeah, since mutually assured destruction worked so well for nukes... :rolleyes:




seems that we've mutualy agreed not to exterminate the planet, so aparently the arguement of "an armed society is a polite society" is pretty accurate


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Silversoul]
    #5780019 - 06/22/06 10:12 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
What "rabid attack" are you talking about? While it's true that Democrats generally tend to support gun control more than the Republicans do, I haven't heard any Democrats making a bunch of noise about it lately.



Have you been following it closely? The San Fransisco ban on handguns? The upcoming July 4th "Rally against Freedom", hosted by the UN, paid for by our tax dollars. Those sound pretty rabid to me, really. What news outlets do you watch for 2nd amendment coverage?
Quote:


Those that do make it an issue in their campaigns will probably be those whose constituents share their views.



I hope that they all volunteer to be shipped off to a country where our inalienable rights are up for majority vote, because that sure as hell isn't here.


--------------------
Unions are the bastions of the mediocre. - luvdemshrooms


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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5780021 - 06/22/06 10:14 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Microcosmatrix said:
But if the people don't have guns, the government would be the only ones. Therefore I support freedom to own guns.




But if the people don't have F-22 Raptor Stealth Fighters, the government will be the only ones that have F-22 Raptor Stealth Fighters, so do you support freedom to own F-22 Raptor Stealth Fighters?

Hell, the only people allowed the mainstain stocks of the smallpox toxin are the Center for Disease Control and the Vector Institute. Doesn't that worry you?

How about M1A2 Abrams battle tanks? Mustard gas? Thermonuclear weapons?


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: OJK]
    #5780026 - 06/22/06 10:18 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Odiumjunkie said:
I don't really get the argument that guns make people safer.



Next time you get mugged, ask yourself "Would I be safer if I had a gun to this guys knife?"
Quote:


If everyone carried a firearm at all times, would the world be a safer place?



Probably, yes. An armed society is a polite society. In an armed society, people don't jump out of their cars screaming and yelling and beating on your hood because they think you cut them off.
Quote:


I for one wouldn't feel very safe if everyone in a 50 meter radius had the ability to instantly kill me.



Do you not think that they do now? Wouldn't you feel safer if you had something to fight back with?


--------------------
Unions are the bastions of the mediocre. - luvdemshrooms


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: OJK]
    #5780033 - 06/22/06 10:21 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Odiumjunkie said:
But if the people don't have F-22 Raptor Stealth Fighters, the government will be the only ones that have F-22 Raptor Stealth Fighters, so do you support freedom to own F-22 Raptor Stealth Fighters?



Yes. If someone can afford them, why not? Let me guess, "the children! But what about the children! Some kid could find his daddys AMRAAM missle and hurt himself!"
Quote:


Hell, the only people allowed the mainstain stocks of the smallpox toxin are the Center for Disease Control and the Vector Institute. Doesn't that worry you?




Not specifically, no. I think that our founding fathers had the right idea when it came to firearms, each American should be (as part of the unorganized militia) "allowed" to possess the firearms available to the average infantryman. Fully automatic rifles, belt-fed machine guns, large caliber machine guns, I don't see a problem with that. It's our last defense against enemies, foreign and domestic.
Quote:


How about M1A2 Abrams battle tanks? Mustard gas? Thermonuclear weapons?



Yes, No, No.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: OJK]
    #5780039 - 06/22/06 10:23 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Odiumjunkie said:
If everyone carried a firearm at all times, would the world be a safer place?





seems to have worked well for Kennesaw Georgia, they passed a law 20 years ago
that required household to own a gun, the crime rate for this rapidly growing
city is well below the national and state averages, violent crimes dropped to
almost nothing for the first 10 years and still remains well below average
today, petty crimes also remain signifigantly lower than the national average


http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Kennesaw&state=GA

a city comparable in size and population that doesnt have the same firearms laws
has a higher crime rate, of course the guns would have nothing to do with that
since the anti-gun experts have said it's not the case, look what happened to
New York and Chicago when firearms were outlawed, crime sky rocketed

http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Rome&state=GA



hasnt there been talks about banning pocket knives and air guns in the UK
because the firearms bans havent signifigantly reduced violent crimes, frankly I
feel much safer when I walk into a McDonalds and see 30 people with side arms
at least I know there wont be another slaughter like in Killean Tx.


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5780048 - 06/22/06 10:27 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
seems to have worked well for Kennesaw Georgia,



No matter where you look at the stats, be it states like Vermont or Alaska with great carry laws or individual cities that recognize that the average American isn't some rube to be controlled, you see less crime. Imagine the bumblefuck that occured in NOLA occuring in New York, where law abiding citizens aren't armed.
Quote:

look what happened to
New York and Chicago when firearms were outlawed, crime sky rocketed




And Detroit, and Washington DC.
Quote:


hasnt there been talks about banning pocket knives and air guns in the UK because the firearms bans havent signifigantly reduced violent crimes, frankly I feel much safer when I walk into a McDonalds and see 30 people with side arms



Yup, whenever I "make" someone who is concealed carrying, I usually feel much more secure. It's funny how people feel more secure when some policeman is armed, but less secure when their average citizen is armed. I'd honestly trust ex-military guys with firearms more than some pig who has to qualify once a year and who, on average, hits about 1 shot out of 10.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5780079 - 06/22/06 10:40 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

xDuckYouSuckerx said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
seems to have worked well for Kennesaw Georgia,



No matter where you look at the stats, be it states like Vermont or Alaska with great carry laws or individual cities that recognize that the average American isn't some rube to be controlled, you see less crime. Imagine the bumblefuck that occured in NOLA occuring in New York, where law abiding citizens aren't armed.




the stats I linked are for 2 similar cities, theres about 40 miles distance
between them, Kennesaw is closer to atlanta, it's part of the urban sprawl
they have the lowest crime of any city in the 9 county metro area, they should
be higher than rome considereing they have public transportation from atlanta,
their population is 5 times larger now than it was 10 years ago and violent
crimes remain the same as when the laws were passed...

Quote:


Yup, whenever I "make" someone who is concealed carrying, I usually feel much more secure.




a group of cops told me they feel more secure when they know people are armed, I
think they were just trying to get out of work


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5780083 - 06/22/06 10:42 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Yea, the local cops around here are all pretty chill with firearm carry. I carry one in the bar most of the time, anytime that I'm there and it's closed I'm carrying, and they know about it.


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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5780097 - 06/22/06 10:48 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

xDuckYouSuckerx said:
Probably, yes. An armed society is a polite society. In an armed society, people don't jump out of their cars screaming and yelling and beating on your hood because they think you cut them off.




...because if they did you'd shoot them?

That, I guess, is the problem. I don't trust people. I think most people are idiots. I don't think people should get shot for being rude, and I don't trust people with the ability to instantly kill me if I do something they feel threatened by.

All that anti-government stuff is a crock of shit. Unless you give citizens the right to own weaponry that is insanely dangerous, to the extent of any private citizen with sufficient funds to kill hundreds of thousands of people unstoppably, it's a pointless fantasy to suppose that the right to own guns has anything to do with the ability to stage a popular uprising.

And, just for kicks, why is it that you think people should be allowed to own battle tanks, but not thermonuclear weapons?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5780125 - 06/22/06 10:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

xDuckYouSuckerx said:
Yea, the local cops around here are all pretty chill with firearm carry.





me and a guy I worked with did a lot of shooting together, we'd clean the guns at
work because it was insanely slow, they walked in on us and the conversation
started, for a bunch os small town cops they were really cool about shit, I bought
a couple pistols from one of the guys.


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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5780127 - 06/22/06 10:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Your example seems reasonably convincing, but it's totally outside of my field of experience. To be honest, the issues of gun control in the USA and the UK are extremely different. I'm not sure you could introduce effective gun control into a society with such a deeply ingrained gun culture and such high rates of gun ownership as America unless it was over the very long term. It's not something I can speak about.

But I would find it extraordinarily difficult to believe crime rates would drop or remain static if levels of gun ownership and gun legislation in scotland were similar to those in the states.


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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: OJK]
    #5780149 - 06/22/06 11:04 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Australia has enacted stringent gun control legislation in the last ten years, and the rate of violent crime has not decreased. Obviously gun crimes have gone down, but those have just been replaced with crimes committed with other weapons.

Like you, I believe it all depends on the cultural and social mindset of the country in question. I believe that regardless of the level of gun control in the US, violent crimes will continue to be higher than that of most European countries.


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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: OJK]
    #5780174 - 06/22/06 11:13 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Odiumjunkie said:
That, I guess, is the problem. I don't trust people. I think most people are idiots. I don't think people should get shot for being rude, and I don't trust people with the ability to instantly kill me if I do something they feel threatened by.




I dont think people should be rude...

most people that own and carry firearms are sensible people, theres a handful
that you'll hear about on the evening news, that handful is less than .01% of
the gun owners, most of them own illegaly, the few shootings I've heard about
from people that were 'law abiding citizens' were usualy in self defense or in
the defense of anothers life. the shootings I've heard about that occur in malls
and office buildings were always by people that were 'unstable' according to
the courts, these were people that aquired their through less than legal means


Quote:

All that anti-government stuff is a crock of shit. Unless you give citizens the right to own weaponry that is insanely dangerous, to the extent of any private citizen with sufficient funds to kill hundreds of thousands of people unstoppably, it's a pointless fantasy to suppose that the right to own guns has anything to do with the ability to stage a popular uprising.




have you actualy looked at americas government, you think that many arent afraid
of what could happen, that those paranoids may be right? do you honestly believe
that the majority of US soldiers will fire upon a 'militia' army thats trying
to oust a tyrant, the soldiers would be shooting their cousins, brothers, sons
and friends, the US can have all the tanks in the world but without people to
man them they are simply scrap metal.


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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: OJK]
    #5780190 - 06/22/06 11:22 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Odiumjunkie said:
I don't really get the argument that guns make people safer.

If everyone carried a firearm at all times, would the world be a safer place?

I for one wouldn't feel very safe if everyone in a 50 meter radius had the ability to instantly kill me.



Sure, the world would probably be safer if no one had guns, but we can't turn the clock back that far. Guns exist, and can be sold and even made on the black market. I'd rather have a world where everyone carries guns than one where only violent criminals do.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: OJK]
    #5780252 - 06/22/06 11:39 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Odiumjunkie said:
Your example seems reasonably convincing, but it's totally outside of my field of experience. To be honest, the issues of gun control in the USA and the UK are extremely different.




I agree, as the UK primarily used guns for sporting events and hunting over the
last 2 hundred years unlike the US where until the last hundred there was little
in the lines of law enforcement, there were bandits around every corner, indians
to kill as well as the odd cougar or bear that wanted to nibble your ankle, most
people here in the south still hunt, we're limited as to when we can and what we
can kill but for a lot of people, it's a neccisity, guns are tools to a
responsible owner, they arent just for a fighting against government or killing
thugs in the street and intimidating dickheads in traffic, those tend to be
the lessor uses.


Quote:

But I would find it extraordinarily difficult to believe crime rates would drop or remain static if levels of gun ownership and gun legislation in scotland were similar to those in the states.




I read the BBC news, I keep up with some topics over your way, one is crime,
look at wales and england for instance, the BBC reports that violent crimes
are up 6% but that it;s not actualy an increase in crime, the use of real
firearms has dropped but crimes committed with knives and airguns is on the
increase, now the way I view it isnt the way most would, it's not a weapon of
choice issue in as much as it's the individual committing the crimes, remove
knives, guns and bombs from the equasion and rocks and sticks become the next
weapon

england is calling for an airgun ban for kids, here in the states thats our
first exposure to a firearm, if it's given to a child to use unsupervised then
there will always be irresponsibility with any sort of weapons, I was taught
from a young age a few basics, first, respect for individuals and their rights,
second respect for weapons and the dangers they pose, mom taught me that even
with an air rifle that it's not to be pointed at another individual unless you
intend to kill them because there is the possibility it could happen.

With respect for others comes respect for their property, how am I showing you
respect if I'm shooting the windows out of your car or house with a BB gun?
Mom would beat the piss out of me for that sort of behavior, my lessons started
when I was about 5, she took my brother and I out to a field and taught us
how to shoot safely and with respect for everything, I had to skin and eat the
squirrel I shot, I had to thank it for it's life. I wish everyone were taught
similarly because in all the years I've owned a gun, I've not killed anyone
you;d notice.


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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Silversoul]
    #5780264 - 06/22/06 11:43 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Sure, the world would probably be safer if no one had guns





didnt seem that safe when all people had were knives and swords, people were
killing each other with rocks and sticks long before the first blade was made
think maybe the problem isnt with the guns but instead with the neanderthal
mentality still retained in some people to this day?

at least with a gun I probably wont suffer for 3 days before I die.


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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5780584 - 06/22/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Microcosmatrix said:
Yeah, since mutually assured destruction worked so well for nukes... :rolleyes:




Actually it did.  WTF are you alluding to?


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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: daimyo]
    #5780911 - 06/22/06 03:51 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I wonder why we have a political forum, :rolleyes:



That is where this bullshit belongs!!!!!!!


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Re: Why the Democrats STILL Don't Stand A Chance [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5780928 - 06/22/06 03:56 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

When guns are outlawed criminals gain a huge upper hand.

You see, they have guns, guns that they obtained illegally. You, the law-abiding citizen, do not have a gun. Guess who's fucked? You are.

I never understood how people actually beleive outlawing guns would reduce crime. Criminals don't give two shits if it was illegal to buy the handgun or submachine gun that they subsequently used to mug you. What they do care about is how much easier it was for them after the government disarmed all the potential victims.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing


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